Hey Ghost, about Tony Simmons

I have read recently that somebody in the UK has been preaching lower mileage for the 'last 15 years'. Can anybody tell me who has been doing that ? Did it come from one coach or a number ? Names would be helpful.

A good friend of mine was a British guy who was one of their better road racers in the late 60s and early 70s. He consistently ran 10 milers in under 50 and had a best marathon of 2:16. He did that marathon on ten weeks at 60-70 mpw and that was really big mileage for him. A couple of years later he did 2:17 on 40-50 mpw. I know this is how he trained. We were roomates for a good while. There were no secret 6 am runs that weren't counted in the mileage totals.

I nagged him to do more. He always wanted to make the UK Olympic team and I really thought that if he really trained like the Hills and Adcocks he could mount a serious challenege to those guys. But for whatever reason, he never did. But he could put up times that most of us only dream of no matter how much we train.

The obvious question to ask of any runner who does well on low to moderate miles is whether he'd have done much better if he ran more. My roomate and I went through this discussion and at one point in the mid 70s, he upped his miles to 100 and managed a 2:25 marathon on that higher volume. This seemed to confirm his belief that he was not someone who'd benefit from lots more miles. However, six or seven years later he had a strecth of several months when he ran 120-130. On that, he did a 2:15.

Maybe Tony Simmons would have caught Foster at Montreal if he'd done 100 mile weeks. On the other hand, maybe if he'd done 100 mile weeks he'd have been slower and not even have been named to the team. There doesn't need to be a clear point to everything. Lots of what's interesting in life is non-logical and counter intuitive, even if it doesn't necessarily fit in with the way a person understands things.

It doesn't get away from the fact that Ghosts posts hint at arrogance and are of no practical help whatsoever to people on this board. Its like coming on here and saying 'I know how to make cars run on orange peel' and then when people ask you how your reply is 'its easy'.... but never actually telling us how.

It seems Ghost was in a remarkable position to be surrounded by the worlds most gifted athletes all living ina 6 mile radius. If Simmons really was doing 2x4 each day then he should ahve applied himslef a little more and it would be him with the double double Olympic Golds and not Viren.

Running is as much about hard work as it is god given talent... those who work hard with little talent should get just as much respect as those who had loads of talent but not teh application.

Tony Simmons was a great runner, it would be nice to hear it from him... I really do believe that if Ghost is right out of the crop at that time who were representing the UK HE WAS THE ONLY ONE runing under 100mpw. he was the exception, not the rule...

By the way I can run 29 minutes for 10k and I only run 20 mpw, god how brilliant am I.... I'm better than Bob Holt.

I don't want to hog this thread, so I'll try to make this my last response for a while. But I want to address the "no practical help" comment.

You're probably familair enough with this board to know that those of us who advocate doing high miles often get responses from people who say they don't have time to run a lot. Tpically, I think that most people actually do have time to do more but use the "no time" thing as a reason not to.

But if someone really does have very little time for training, someone who can see getting in 40-60mpw but never 100, reads all the stuff that some of write to the effect of "You'll never be any good unless you run a lot," that person may think there's no point in being a serious competitive runner and just give it up. But what I think ghost's posts show is that there are people who have done limited training, for whatever reasons, and have run very well. I think that sort of thing is worth knowing. The individual athlete who reads it is free to decide what to do with the information.

As to whether or not Tony Simmons should have run more in his day, who are we to say? I agree with you about the increased respect hard workers get in this sport even if they aren't as succesful as others who do less. But I also think there's something neat about someone who approaches the sport as something enjoyable, keeps it at that level, and does very well. Jack Foster always approached his running that way and for many of us who ran then, no matter how seriously we took the sport, Jack was something of a hero for being so laid back.

Another interesting 'low mileage' guy was John Sheridan - a five feet 4 inches Irishman who worked as a labourer and ran to and from work as his training....yes you guessed it - two 4 mile runs a day... often at a nippy pace on the canal bank near the West London Stadium, Shephards Bush area of London (England). John, by the way, ran around 2:17 for the Marathon and was a very good road runner - able to run 49 minutes for 10 mile road races week in week out. John would usually run a 10 miler on weekends, but when training for marathons would do a 15-20 mile run on Sundays...starting out at TVH West London Stadium, going over the roads and then to Wimbledon Common, where he would meet up with a bunch of other runners (some of them ordinary joggers) and then run back to TVH.

Another low mileage man - Gerry Helme - of Liverpool, who ran around 28:11/10.000 track and 2:11 for the marathon...on 50-60 miles a week.

Karl Harrison (Stretford) back in the mid. 1980's, ran around 13:37 and 28:15 for 5000/10.000 track, on once a day training - about 50-60 miles a week. He worked (like all the Brits at that time) an ordinary job, and would run in the park and on the roads after work.

I recall Karl being invited to run at Crystal Palace in some International track meet, and he (Karl) turning up with all his running gear and stuff in a TESCO'S shopping bag...he was very low key and did not look like an International if you saw him in the street, just an ordinary guy.

There were many others at the time, but enough for the moment.

chris.moulton@mail.mcgill.ca

Ok. I'm not done posting. What did Tony do at the weekends in his prime? Was it still two 4s?

ok, its an old thread. but from an interview with Tony Simmons in Cliff Temples cross country and road running:

Mondays - 4 at lunchtime, 6 in the evening.

Tuesdays - 4 at lunchtime, 1000 or 2000m reps on road circuit in evening ("followed by a booze up in the club bar afterwards - without the bar I swear I wouldnt still be running")

Wednesday - 6

Thursday 4 at lunchtime, followed by more reps in the evening

Friday - easy 4

Saturday - usually a race, "if not I tend to do nothing that day"

Sunday - 10-20 miles easy on the country from Luton sports centre.

Claimed that after xmas leading up to major events he 'put more attack' into his training.

Cheers Ghost.

Another interesting gem.

Was priviledged enough to have known and trained with Mick Morris and Kevin Glastonbury while they were at Utah. Both did "low mileage high quality" workouts.

Wouldn't Wayne Tarquini (Tipton) have been there then also?