Sub 14 5000m

Clip of 67.xx splits for 3200-3400m, usually if you’re in a Raleigh relays, Stanford invite-type race, someone makes a move around then, you just gotta do your best to go with it. I remember running a lot of 67’s then my last 4 laps were like 66, 65, 65, 62-ish?

I was never a speedster so when I was in that shape it was off of hard 18-20 mile long runs, a weekly 6 mile tempo at 5:10-5:20 pace, and some faster track reps, nothing crazy.

Definitely makes the pace “feel” easier if you can run a 4:00 mile, but I would’ve been lucky to run a 4:10. The 67’s felt pretty hard around 2k into the race but I just hung in there.

I would suggest pretty “polarized training.” In other words do a lot of tempo workouts at marathon pace to LT pace and some 200’s to 400’s interval workouts at 60-second or faster pace. Save you race pace K’s or miles or whatever until 14 days out from the race, you only need a couple of them to get a feel for the pace and build some confidence. In other words, get better at your tempos and your speed, don’t worry about workouts at 66-67 second pace.

lucky 13 wrote:

Hey, just another runner here looking to hopefully go sub 14 this summer. Don't have many recent race results because of covid restrictions but I'll be racing soon enough. I know there are many ways to train, so I wanted to get some references so I can get a better idea if going out at sub 14 pace is gonna result in a nice 13:5x PR or a blowup and a very painful 15 min 5k.

If you've gotten under 14, could you please share:

First sub 14 5000m time:

How the race went (splits, solo ...) :

# years training when you did it:

Relevant 1500/mile-3000-10000 prs:

Avg Mileage per week that training cycle/year:

Tempo run pace and duration:

Key workout sessions (repeat k's/miles ... )

Perceived effort in training (did you hammer your workouts or keep it mostly controlled ) :

Any other comments:

thanks!

"Just another runner" guys don't run 14:00. What are your PRs?

old and washed up wrote:

I would suggest pretty “polarized training.” In other words do a lot of tempo workouts at marathon pace to LT pace and some 200’s to 400’s interval workouts at 60-second or faster pace. Save you race pace K’s or miles or whatever until 14 days out from the race, you only need a couple of them to get a feel for the pace and build some confidence. In other words, get better at your tempos and your speed, don’t worry about workouts at 66-67 second pace.

QFE. Individual mileage will vary. Somewhere between 75-90 is sufficient. Lots of tempos, threshold, hills, moderate runs, and shorter strides/hill sprints and workouts like 2's, 3's and 4's at around 3k down to 800m pace. A long run between 15-18. Repeat for several months until sufficiently fit.

Within the last 4-6 weeks hit a few race pace workouts. You only really need a few of these if you stack months of the previously described training.

Ran 4:12 and 14:38 last year- However, I think I've made some big improvements over the past year just from comparing workouts, but I haven't gotten the chance to race since . If I time trialed a 5k today, I'm pretty confident saying that I can run 14:15-20.

I'm aiming to get down to low or sub 14 in a higher quality race in June or July. Not really looking for training advice because what I've been doing has worked for me, just want to compare my overall level of training with what people who've actually gotten under 14 have done.

I've done a lot of 6 mile tempos done at 5:15 pace, like "old and washed up" said, so that's encouraging. Also, I'd say I'm slightly more of a mile-5k speed guy, as opposed to a real distance 5k-10k guy.

thanks for info, washed up and If it was You.

Been working hard on tempos and a lot, and my speed is pretty decent, so this is encouraging.

I see that it's the long term gains that really make a difference in the 5k, so even if I don't get it this summer I'll take a shot indoors or next outdoors ..

+1

I never broke 14:00 but I ran 14:22 as a primarily 1500 runner. I had a few teammates break 14:00 though. Our long runs were a bit shorter and usually instead of running hard we would just run hills, but otherwise our training was nearly identical.

lucky 13 wrote:

Ran 4:12 and 14:38 last year- However, I think I've made some big improvements over the past year just from comparing workouts, but I haven't gotten the chance to race since . If I time trialed a 5k today, I'm pretty confident saying that I can run 14:15-20.

I'm aiming to get down to low or sub 14 in a higher quality race in June or July. Not really looking for training advice because what I've been doing has worked for me, just want to compare my overall level of training with what people who've actually gotten under 14 have done.

I've done a lot of 6 mile tempos done at 5:15 pace, like "old and washed up" said, so that's encouraging. Also, I'd say I'm slightly more of a mile-5k speed guy, as opposed to a real distance 5k-10k guy.

Those are good times. I ran with a 14:00 runner in college who was strong enough to be a XC All-American and his mile PR was 4:05.

13:47 5k

Mileage is always 80 - 85, no planned down weeks.

LR's 1:45 - 2:00, mostly at EZ pace, but some with tempo's included. I did have a 1:45 LR with 60min @5:01avg, which showed my strength was good. The LR's are essential but you don't have to always go fast. Tempos should be under control, and if you're suffering out there wanting the tempo to end, tone it back. Running 2:00 EZ is taxing enough.

My workouts were standard, but mostly had shorter rest. I feel like anyone can run fast if they are fully recovered, or run faster than prescribed pace, so the short rest keeps it honest.

Some sessions I did leading up to the race:

8 x 1000m @2:51.3 avg w/ 200m jog

10 x 800m @2:19avg w/ 200m jog. 2:30 R, 8 x 400m @66avg w/ 200m jog

3 x 3200m @9:28avg w/ 2:00 R, 1 x 1600m @4:30

Some days I would have 2 workouts in a day. The AM session depended on where I was in the season, but the PM would be usually 5mi @T (~5:00avg again), or some threshold 1200s w/ 200m jog.

Also what really helped me was taking my EZ days super chill. Very common for my runs to be 7:30/mi or slower. Some days, I would feel better and would run quicker, but if I ran 8:00min avg, I didn't care, just trying to recover

I ran 13:5x twice during my college years. I was probably like you: I was mile-3k/5k runner. I did okay in XC as well 24:xx 8k and 30:xx 10k, never ran a track 10k tho. Weekly mileage during XC was around 70-80mpw, during indoor 60-70mpw, outdoor 50-60mpw. PRs were: 1:55 800, 2:28 1000m, 4:01 mile, 7:5x 3k, 13:xx 5k.

3 weeks before I ran the 13:xx 5k I ran 14:07 and 3:4xx 1500.

A week is something like 2 hard workouts (3mile tempo, (400,800, 1600 repeats ), long runs of 12+miles at 5:50-6:00.

I can provide detailed workouts if needed

yes please that would be interesting ! Maybe like a week in XC - indoor - outdoor ?

and thx to other guys sharing their training, always cool to see the variety.

lucky 13 wrote:

Hey, just another runner here looking to hopefully go sub 14 this summer. Don't have many recent race results because of covid restrictions but I'll be racing soon enough. I know there are many ways to train, so I wanted to get some references so I can get a better idea if going out at sub 14 pace is gonna result in a nice 13:5x PR or a blowup and a very painful 15 min 5k.

If you've gotten under 14, could you please share:

First sub 14 5000m time:

How the race went (splits, solo ...) :

# years training when you did it:

Relevant 1500/mile-3000-10000 prs:

Avg Mileage per week that training cycle/year:

Tempo run pace and duration:

Key workout sessions (repeat k's/miles ... )

Perceived effort in training (did you hammer your workouts or keep it mostly controlled ) :

Any other comments:

thanks!

Have coached two who did it at the Div II level.

1st time under: 13:57 and 13:52 in the same race (previous PR’s were 14:17 from previous year and 14:08 indoor)

Race: They were both around 8:25 for 3k. I believe it was a mid 13:40s race at the front and they sat mid-pack on the rail as long as they could. Big pickup with 2k to go after the pacer dropped (this point of the race is critical - those 3 laps from 3200-4400m have to be pushed) and they were able to close well in the lap. You need a big group aiming for that goal to help tow you.

Experience: One junior (21) and one senior (22) who were running 80-85 mpw at the time. Had been 90-100 during cross country season. Both were 10k runners and ran 28:56 and 29:10 a couple weeks prior to the 5k. I don’t believe either had cracked 3:50 for 1500 at that time, but later that season ran 3:49 and 3:50 at a smaller tuneup meet.

Tempos: You’d be hard pressed to find a week from August through June of that year that did not include at least some sort of tempo running. Fall and winter a lot of longer fartleks and tempos totaling 40-60 minutes (usually progressive in nature) starting 5:30-5:40 and cutting to 5:00. Usually averaged 5:20s for 8-10 mile cutdowns. Not sexy but very effective. When we would do shorter tempos there was almost always something after; start with a 4miler around 5:00 pace and then do 8x200 in 30 or 4x1k in 2:50 or some hill reps. We did a lot of that from March to June.

Workouts: We run 2 workouts a week and a long run on Sundays that would almost always finish in the mid 5-minute range after starting off slow. Up to 2 hour long runs early season - 1:45hr mid season - 90 minutes near out peak. Easy days were really easy, rarely faster than 6:50 pace. And lots of doubles - typically 3 to 5 doubles per week depending on time of the year. I’ll second what another poster said about staying away from 5k paced stuff for most of the year. If we did it would just be a hard 1600 at the end of a workout or something. Only in the last 6 weeks would we do real hard 5k paced stuff (Ex: 1600 + 2x1200 + 3x600 starting at 5k pace and cutting down to 3k pace on the 600s) or (ex: 4x1K @ 5k pace, 4x400 slightly faster, 1k @ 5k pace)

One thing I also want to mention is that our two guys could not have done it without each other. I hope you have group or at least a training partner. At the level it takes to run under 14 it makes a huge difference to have people to support you along the way.

Anyway, here’s a couple sample weeks from our 13:52 guy:

Late September (XC Season)

Mon - 4 AM (7:17avg) / 7 PM (6:55 avg) + 5x100

Tue - 8 hilly & progressive (5:36 down to 5:02) [5:22 avg] + WU / CD

Wed - 13 (6:57 avg)

Thu - 4 (7:25 avg) / 6 PM + 5x100 (6:48 avg)

Fri - 6x1k in 3:00 (1min rest) + 6x400m hill @ 5k effort + 2mi in 9:50 (with WU / CD) in AM / 4 (7:14avg) PM

Sat - 8 (7:01avg)

Sun - 18 in 1hr 54min (started 7:10 cutdown to 5:20-5:30)

Total: 90mi

Late January (Indoor)

Mon - 9 (6:56avg) + 5x100

Tue - Fartlek 6min/5/4/3/2/1 equal time on/off (41mins total @ 5:19 pace - “on” around 4:50 and “off around 5:50) + WU/CD

Wed - 13 (avg 6:36)

Thu - 6 AM (7:18avg) / 6 PM (7:04 avg) + 5x100

Fri - 4mi on the track in 20:16 + 7x300m hill + WU/CD in AM / 5 PM (7:12avg)

Sat - 4 (7:10avg) AM / 7 PM (6:58avg)

Sun - 16.5 in 1hr45min (avg 6:21 ... last mile 5:18)

Total: 87mi

Mid April (1 week before 13:52)

Mon - 4 (7:10 avg) AM / 6 (7:00 avg) PM + 5x100

Tue - 1k in 2:46 + 4mi in 20:40 + 5x300 in 48/47/45/45/44 + WU / CD / 4 (7:18 avg) PM

Wed - 12 avg 6:48

Thu - 4 (7:10avg) AM / 6 (6:55 avg) PM + 5x100

Fri - 2x1600 (4:39/4:36) + 2x1k (2:48/2:46) + 3x400 (62/62/62) / 4 PM

Sat - 8 (6:48 avg)

Sun - 15 in 1hr40min

Total: 81mi

A week during XC

Mon: easy 8-10mi 7:00-7:30/mile

Tues: 4xmile @5k or 5x1k at @3k with 1-3min rest

Wed: easy 8-10mi

Thur: threshold or 3-5mi tempo @5:00-5:10

Friday: premeet

Sat: race day

Sun: 12-15mi long run 5:50-6:20

A week during indoor

Mon: easy 8-10mi

Tues: 5x1k @2:50 or 5x800 @2:15

Wed: easy 5-8mi

Thurs: speed day: 8x400 @60-62 or 3x(3x300 @45) or 3x(3x200 @30-32) with 60-90 sec rest

Fri: premeet

Sat: race 800/1000/mile

Sun: 12mi long run @6:20

A week during outdoor

Mon: easy 5-7mi

Tues: 4x800 @3k or 4x1600 @4:40ish or 3x2000 @5k 1-3min rest

Wed: easy 5-8mi

Thurs: speed day: 8x400/12x400 @60-62 or 3x(3x300 @45) or 3x(3x200 @30-32) with 60-90 sec rest

Fri: premeet

Sat: race 800/1000/mile

Sun: 12mi long run @6:20

indoor/outdoor workouts are very similar except that during outdoor I will have longer workouts on Tuesdays because I often race 5ks outdoors. Sometimes workouts are done on Mon/Wed if racing on Fridays.

bababs : thanks, great response! I'm lucky to have a good group of partners who are at my level or faster.

A runner: thank you too !

13:43

I think I was 4th place, had a pretty large group of runners going after it with a pacer. 8:50 or 8:52 at the 3200 and then picked it up quite a bit the last mile

Had been running year round for 7 years

4:04 mile and 7:57 3k , 28:50's the same year

Avg probably 90 miles per week, peaked a little over 100

Didn't run many tempos, closest thing would be short 5 minute tempos between fast track reps, tempo was about 5:10-5:15 pace

No real key workouts, but a lot of workouts were quicker track reps with a few tempo segments between

Workouts were fast yet controlled, just a step below racing

wELL......first you have too break 14:30 then and use the training paces connected to that result.

Then we talk about sessions like 15-20 x 400m at 69 sec with around 1 min rest at a controlled feeling not hard.Added to this lactate threshold intervals to a total of 5-8 miles at around 5:03-5:05 mile pace. Your easy runs around 6:45 mile pace.

If this is very easily done for you now, you probably are in shape more close to 14 min, and to run sub 14 needs faster training paces

Then you have to do e.g 15-20 x 400m at 66-67 sec with a min rest and controlled no hard feeling.Added to this LT interval reps to a total of 5-8 miles at mile pace 4:53-4:55 . Easy runs in 6:30 mile pace .

"The Trick" to improve smart is to stay at the training paces connected to your present real shape and do your right individual paces until the supercompensation sets in and you move to a new faster level.

(I myself ran 14:20 with same kind of training.)

Good luck! :)

- Your Special Magic Easter Bunny -

Good advice. I bump it up.

OP here - saw this thread that I started over a year ago linked in another thread. I did end up running just under 14 later that summer! Thanks for the advice to all that answered - looking back there is some good stuff in here.

ran mid-upper 13s (between 13:30 and 13:45)

I only ran 60 mpw since I'd get hurt if I ran more. I compensated by running easy at 5:40-6:10