Rojo - Do you support transgender athletes competing as long as they receive hormonal treatment? Or are you fully against?

Long term hormone treatment for healthy people is a risky medical practice that shouldn't be mandated by any sports authority. With XYs allowed to compete with XXs, testosterone testing would have to stop. I can't see how this wouldn't fundamentally change women's sport. I think the athletes themselves need to decide. Let the female members of the USATF take a vote.

Well, when you put it that way... Obviously, separate classes to promote level competition by gender are an outmoded idea.

I would greatly prefer that my athletes were not part of a field study to establish an absurdity. Admittedly, we are working with a small sample size, but somewhere on the order of 100% of transgender high school track athletes have an obvious advantage. I'm sure that the hypothesis that boys are generally stronger and faster than girls is far too radical for some people to accept, but there is some strong evidence indicating that it's probably a fact.

Running craze wrote:

It will change everything. I am woman, hear me roar. No other requirements to compete in female high school or college athletics. You seem to be okay with it at the same time that you keep arguing against it.

If you're an athlete, the chance of you ever competiting against a transgender female are about zero.

Well...... wrote:

Runningart2004 wrote:

Not really. The differences in biomechanics help make a man stronger and faster than women. How the hip is designed plays a factor in how power is transferred to propulsion.

Same training, same bodtfat, even same testosterone men will run faster and lift more simply because physics.

Alan

Did you even read my post ? I said there have to be adjustments to each sport to match the advantage, so that it's negated.

In many sports, it would be impossible to negate the advantages. Would a transgender athlete put a shot 10 pounds heavier than those used by the other athletes? Would a tennis player use wooden rackets from the '70s?

Not transgender, just female. You are too narrow in your view. Many boys now think they are girls and their parents are okay with it. Biden is normalizing it. You will see many masculine girls competing in high school and college this fall and nobody will ask questions because they no longer can.

Sorry but I just do not think that biological men being allowed to compete with biological women based on gender dysphoria is just allowing the same opportunity available to everyone else. That's all.

100% second this post. Having worked with and known transgender people, this is definitely a hot button topic and I see why. But as with most things in life, this isn't a black or white issue. There are going to be some individuals who have the financial means to get the necessary reassignment surgeries, hormone treatments, etc.

There are also more than plenty who either can not afford or will not get these procedures done. This doesn't make them any less "committed" to making the transformation. I get the feeling this topic is always going to be disputed since there will never be a cookie-cutter definition of what makes someone transgender (especially as we get into pre- versus post-operative).

I think the solution is going to have to be something very outside of the box to work. I feel for the people who want to be represented as how they identify, but I also think that that shouldn't be at the expense of (usually) young girls and women who are at a genetic disadvantage, or the other way around.

Big Card wrote:

Not transgender, just female. You are too narrow in your view. Many boys now think they are girls and their parents are okay with it. Biden is normalizing it. You will see many masculine girls competing in high school and college this fall and nobody will ask questions because they no longer can.

Yes, the tipping point has been passed and it will be a normal thing and expand in numbers and one or two of those numbers could break world records.

Big Card wrote:

Not transgender, just female. You are too narrow in your view. Many boys now think they are girls and their parents are okay with it. Biden is normalizing it. You will see many masculine girls competing in high school and college this fall and nobody will ask questions because they no longer can.

I would absolutely not be OK with it. I would only cave in if my son became suicidal and would otherwise strongly encourage him to wait until after HS to transgender. I might even threaten to not pay his college tuition if he was unwilling to wait. I certainly wouldn't want him to compete in a sport to become an even bigger target for abuse from classmates. Are you a parent and would you be cool with it? Being part of a subgroup of about .5% of the population is not "normal"

I have no animosity at all against transgender athletes, but I am disgusted that the Connecticut sprinters were willing to compete "as-is" against female athletes. If I was the coach I would made it very clear to them that I thought what they were doing was wrong and would have had minimal interaction with them.

In most states, HS transgender athletes are already allowed to compete "as-is" and Buden's EO, which really doesn't address sports with any detail, would only confirm that.

HS and the NCAA have different rules regarding transgender athletes and cannot be lumped together.

Virtue signaling is a pejorative neologism for when a person holds a prominent and disingenuous moral value with the sole intent of enhancing one's own image.

Runningart2004 wrote:

Yea I've mentioned this. The biomechanics are different, the hip structure is different. The advantages are not available to ANY other women except trans.

Alan

Care to give any proof of that? The studies I have seen suggest that among elite distance runners, there is basically difference do to the hip structure in terms of mechancal efficiency. There are woman who have big hips where it is an issue (i.e. i f you compare the average female marathoner to the average male marathoner) but they aren't successful competing against woman with narrow hips as it is. Adding in a bunch more narrow hipped competitors doesn't change that. If you sorted every human by hip structure for distance running, there would be a lot more males than females but there are still females up there.

The reality is that we are unlikely to see many really elite people (say 1:45/3:35/13:15/27:30) transition at a young enough age so where if they have an advantage they could destroy WR. Instead we will be debating if a 4:10 guy who later runs 4:45 has gained an advantage or not.

So far the party line among people defending the participation of males in female sports is "well, I'm sure that wouldn't happen very often." Quite an argument.

No transitioning required at the high school or collegiate level anymore. A 4:20 guy can be a 4:20 girl. You can't demand to examine their private parts. Biden has declared that they must have equal access.

Paradoxical wrote:

So far the party line among people defending the participation of males in female sports is "well, I'm sure that wouldn't happen very often." Quite an argument.

It seems that most "progressive" arguments boil down to because we said so.

I have a feeling that the Semenya issue with regards to hormone treatment and human rights will start getting co joined with this.

Wait for the side effects of hormone treatment to become a problem.

Running craze wrote:

No transitioning required at the high school or collegiate level anymore. A 4:20 guy can be a 4:20 girl. You can't demand to examine their private parts. Biden has declared that they must have equal access.

Your 4:20 scenario hasn't happened yet and that person would be ineligible to run as a female during their freshman year in college.

Women’s D1 full boat scholarships are now available to humans with Y chromosomes...

Show up this fall and say that you are a woman and you are good to go. What coach is going to demand that an athlete drop their pants? One or two would have done it last year but none will do it now due to the EO. You don't seem to get that there is no verification. Anyone can be a girl and can't be discriminated against. The rules have changed. Biden has saved the day for every average 18 year old male athlete.

Fixed typos:

Women’s D1 full boat scholarships are now available to humans with a Y chromosome...