FACT: Electric vehicles will NOT replace gasoline engine vehicles anytime soon

How much spinning reserve is needed?

I'm done. You'll never change your mind no matter what I say.

not gonna wrote:

The infrastructure for electric vehicles does not exist.

Gas stations are not going away.

Car dealerships are not going away.

Auto mechanics are not going away.

Car repair stores are not going away.

To be honest I agree with the infrastructure challenges. But that will improve over time.

I promise you that the main reason electric cars will take off is because they are better cars.

Generally faster/more torque, easier to drive, better traction control, more features possible, quieter, more room for storage, lower maintenance and the list goes on.

Charging at home will eventually be more convenient than going to the petrol station.

I don't think Tesla is the future. But electric cars are.

ex-runner wrote:

not gonna wrote:

The infrastructure for electric vehicles does not exist.

Gas stations are not going away.

Car dealerships are not going away.

Auto mechanics are not going away.

Car repair stores are not going away.

To be honest I agree with the infrastructure challenges. But that will improve over time.

I promise you that the main reason electric cars will take off is because they are better cars.

Generally faster/more torque, easier to drive, better traction control, more features possible, quieter, more room for storage, lower maintenance and the list goes on.

Charging at home will eventually be more convenient than going to the petrol station.

I don't think Tesla is the future. But electric cars are.

I agree. EV will take off as they will be better cars and people will want it. I'm sure infrastructure may be lacking for awhile, but hopefully, it will eventually catch up.

Bummbull wrote:

ex-runner wrote:

To be honest I agree with the infrastructure challenges. But that will improve over time.

I promise you that the main reason electric cars will take off is because they are better cars.

Generally faster/more torque, easier to drive, better traction control, more features possible, quieter, more room for storage, lower maintenance and the list goes on.

Charging at home will eventually be more convenient than going to the petrol station.

I don't think Tesla is the future. But electric cars are.

I agree. EV will take off as they will be better cars and people will want it. I'm sure infrastructure may be lacking for awhile, but hopefully, it will eventually catch up.

I think one other issue with electric vehicle is that people are expecting to save a lot of money on fuel by going EV, but that's only true if you're driving gas guzzlers getting under 20mpg.

This article by Investopedia:

They state with assuming 15K miles of driving, your fuel cost with Model S would be $612 and driving a Camry getting 30mpg with gas price at $2.40/gallon will be $1,200.

So, if your car is already getting 30mpg, you're only saving $50/month on gas. If you're driving a gas guzzler, saving will be much more significant, but if you're not, it's not that different. Also, if you're utilizing supercharging network, cost to fuel up will be much more which would cut into your savings. Also, I think with Investopedia's calculation, I think it's overestimating how far Tesla can really be driven as Tesla uses EPA guidelines for their mileage estimate, and I think it overestimates by a large margin compared to real world driving. So, considering these factors, fuel savings compared to somewhat fuel efficient cars are not much at all.

Monkeys typing wrote:

Of course muddying the point is precisely why agents of disinformation do this sort of thing.

Bad Wigins was all over this thread until people challenged him with actual facts. Then he's gone. Pretty standard operating by him.

Not gonna do it

Renewed Marathoner wrote:

I'm done. You'll never change your mind no matter what I say.

Done? Ha!

For what it’s worth I agree with you. Grid power is intuitively more efficient. Your argument isn’t supportable by your data. I’m just trying to get you there.

Carbon emissions comparisons are irrelevant to the question of efficiency when we have various methods of power generation for EVs.

There is only one widely excepted method of power generation for an ICE.

Good article, but it assumes the Tesla is a Model S, which is the model that has sold the most to date. The relatively new, but now faster-selling, Model 3 costs about half of the Model S, so if you're comparing it to the same Toyota Camry, the savings catch up to the difference in purchase price much quicker.

Almost all those numbers are very outdated. Current estimates put EVs at a significant lower CO2 footprint. Moving to a centralized source of carbon production makes it easier to quickly advance carbon capture or storage technology too. https://theicct.org/sites/default/files/publications/EV-life-cycle-GHG_ICCT-Briefing_09022018_vF.pdf

Renewed Marathoner wrote:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_long_tailpipe#:~:text=The%20long%20tailpipe%20is%20an,those%20from%20non-electric%20vehicles

.

There you go, source. There's hundreds if you Google long tailpipe theory. Please for the love of God be willing to change your mind when presented with credible evidence. The endless arguing on this site with no one willing to change their mind no matter what is ridiculous.

Cool.

Emissions are irrelevant to the discussion of whether a switch to EVs will occur. The relevant points are that

a) EVs are cheaper to maintain

b) Electricity is cheaper than gas

c) Soon, EVs will cheaper outright than ICE vehicles

d) EVs have lots of benefits that ICE cars don't (instant acceleration, individual wheel control, regenerative braking, etc.)

e) Tons of new EVs are in production and planned across all vehicle categories

Why would anyone buy an ICE car when all these points are valid?

"I prefer the sound and feel of a gasoline engine" - Great, you can keep your gas car for recreation just like your ATV and motorhome, until it breaks down and there are no more ICE car mechanics because they've all gone out of business.

"I live in an apartment and there are no EV charging stations nearby" - OK, you may not be able to yet, but guarantee you your complex will set them up soon due to popular demand. Your workplace too.

JamesD2 wrote:

Good article, but it assumes the Tesla is a Model S, which is the model that has sold the most to date. The relatively new, but now faster-selling, Model 3 costs about half of the Model S, so if you're comparing it to the same Toyota Camry, the savings catch up to the difference in purchase price much quicker.

Yea for sure. I was just mentioning about the fuel savings being not that drastic if you’re already driving somewhat fuel efficient car.

Especially if you’re driving like a Prius, I think Prius is cheaper, fuel wise, compared to supercharger rates. Tesla will be cheaper from home charging in which most people would charge that way majority of their use.

More electric cars than gassers were sold last year in the UK.

All you really need for "infrastructure" to support an EV is consistent access to one Level 2 charger.

Installing a Level 2 charger at home should work for everyone/everything except those on long distance road trips.

The J1772 plug is pretty much standard now except for Tesla - and those folks typically carry an adapter.

This is Jim Kiler wrote:

It took about 50 years for the horse age to give way to cars and trucks.

The only thing we're changing here are engines.

California will be nearly 100 percent electric in 20 years. You'll have the same hooptie cars and trucks we have now, living on gas found on the black market for maybe another 10 years.

2050 and it's all electric. Right about the time you can jump onto a rocket for a weekend on Mars.

GM announced this week electric-only by 2035.

But the infrastructure could NEVER support that! I know better than GM!

This is Jim Kiler wrote:

This is Jim Kiler wrote:

It took about 50 years for the horse age to give way to cars and trucks.

The only thing we're changing here are engines.

California will be nearly 100 percent electric in 20 years. You'll have the same hooptie cars and trucks we have now, living on gas found on the black market for maybe another 10 years.

2050 and it's all electric. Right about the time you can jump onto a rocket for a weekend on Mars.

GM announced this week electric-only by 2035.

I can’t see Formula 1 racing on EVs. Nor nascar. They can’t even go more than 300 miles per charge, so they can’t do the Indy 500

correctamundo wrote:

I can’t see Formula 1 racing on EVs. Nor nascar. They can’t even go more than 300 miles per charge, so they can’t do the Indy 500

They do pit stops now to refuel. Pit stops with EV will involve changing batteries, rapid recharge of batteries, or a combination of the two.

There will be many new challenges to figure out with vehicle design, battery dynamics, etc. Since they have refined engines and cars so much, many motorsports have put restrictive rules in place that limit innovation to a certain extent. I believe teams will welcome the new opportunities and fewer restrictions that should be associated with EV racing. There will be similar and new racing strategies. Some of the advances and innovations from EV racing will trickle down to consumer EVs.

Drivers and everyone else will be able to hear the crowd.

I once went to the International Human Powered Vehicle Speed Championships at the Indy Motor Speedway.

It was a freaky contrast watching things (faired bicycles/tricycles) come at you at 60+ MPH but almost silently. Without the noise, there was no frame of reference to relate it to.

It was scary, like watching a cheetah charge at you.