Sub 17 fitness = what workouts?

good joke lol

j8942 wrote:

good joke lol

huh?

I just hammer a longer run (7-9 miles) at 6:00-6:20 pace a couple times a week and usually run a good bit of hills. Sometimes run those hammers as a progression run, sometimes I don't. No other real workouts, rest of the time take it pretty easy. 55-70 miles per week depending on how much time I have. Time trialed a 16:30 on the track a couple weeks ago.

Well, your mileage is good. But your workouts aren't quite saying sub 17 yet. You did not include rest in your workouts. I'd say closer to 17:20-17:30. But you can progress from there. You will need to race a few times to get "that feeling". You might want to run 4000m at 3:30/k as a time trial. Hopefully this will feel controlled fast.

My last two weeks before breaking 17 for the first time (16:59, was 19, on 20-30 miles/week, 58" 400 speed and 2'46 1k)

Tu: 45' easy

W: 15x 1' @5k effort (1' jog rest) on trails (around 3'30/k, had a party the night before)

Th: 55' easy on a quite hilly course

Sat: 5x1200m w/1'45 rest @3'30/k (felt relaxed), last one @3'12 (3'20-ish pace for 800m then kicked in)

Sun: 45' jog

M: 45' easy with 10 strides

W: 30' jog then 6x1'30 @3'30/k (1'30 jog rest)

Sat: 30' light jog with 6x100m @goal race pace (3'30)

Sun: 25' jog, drills, 5 strides @goal pace.

I felt "easy" on every workout

Following weeks, I ran 6x1000s (1'30 rest) in 3'19 avg, 3x(5x200) (30" rest, 2' between sets) in 33-34.

Sub17Hopeful wrote:

I'm aiming for sub17 on the track in a few weeks. I'd be interested in hearing what workouts you ran (and corresponding times) which gave you an idea that you were ready to break 17.

This morning I ran 5x1000 aiming for goal race pace. Most of my splits were 3:23/3:24, but the effort level was high. I'm not sure I could hold that pace for 5k.

In another workout I ran 6 x (200, 200, 400) in ~35sec and ~75sec

In a recent tempo I did 3T (18:05), 4x200, 2T (11:42)

My mileage is about 60-70 mpw, with long runs of 17-19 miles.

Is your 5x1000 on the same surface you'd be racing a 5k?

Run 3xmile in 5:15 on 2 minutes rest.

For me, 5 x 1000 in 3:20-3:22 with a 2:00 recovery was something I could do when in sub-17:00 shape. Your long run seems way too long if your focus in on the 5K.

This. I’m here rn because I’m feeling a bit inspired/scientific

But if you want to go sub-17 you can literally just hammer every or every other run, and you could prob get there. Additionally, you should prob do a few 10 mile-ish runs and run them to the point where you are fatigued in the body (so if ur “hammering” of 5 miles is around 6 min pace, then 10 at 6:20-6:45). Better if it’s hilly b/c this run is mainly to get that “dad” strength. Finally, in my training I made a 3 out@ 90% race pace, rest a minute then 3 back. This is somewhere between threshold and tempo And I did it on flat (but sometimes very windy) stretch of bike path - The last 1-2 mile of this is hard (especially when It’s against the wind), but I feel like this was a very good 5k workout bc the first leg out just gets to be easy. Idk how but I ran a 5k around 16:40 and this was doing that workout with the 3 mile legs being 17-18 pace.

6 x 1000m all sub-3:25 w/ no more than 2 minutes recovery in the middle of a normal training week (ie, without tapering for the workout and coming in with some accumulated fatigue) would indicate you had a shot. So would a sub-10:55 solo 2-mile TT under those same conditions.

If the workout you ran was on the same surface as your race and was fairly typical for you, you’re probably in 17:30ish shape.

d3 guy wrote:

Sub17Hopeful wrote:

I'm aiming for sub17 on the track in a few weeks. I'd be interested in hearing what workouts you ran (and corresponding times) which gave you an idea that you were ready to break 17.

This morning I ran 5x1000 aiming for goal race pace. Most of my splits were 3:23/3:24, but the effort level was high. I'm not sure I could hold that pace for 5k.

In another workout I ran 6 x (200, 200, 400) in ~35sec and ~75sec

In a recent tempo I did 3T (18:05), 4x200, 2T (11:42)

My mileage is about 60-70 mpw, with long runs of 17-19 miles.

Is your 5x1000 on the same surface you'd be racing a 5k?

Yeah, the workout was on the track and the race will be on the track. I had 2min recovery between reps which I know is a bit on the longer side.

I ran 17:10's multiple times on slow cross country courses, not digging to my max, ( I was defiantly able to break 17), and I would definitely cut the long run to 13.5 miles tops, just try to turn it into a progression/ steady tempo effort , finish it in under 95 minutes on a day you are feeling good. Depending on the rest for that goal pace 5 by 1000, that may indicate you aren't in shape for sub 17, when I was in shape to break 17, I would run that 1000 meter workout except 7 times 1k, on a gravel path with 3 minutes rest, but fairly low effort. Same goes for the tempo, if you weren't digging much, that's a good sign, but if you really pushed an even started feeling lactic acid, I would say you likely aren't in shape for it. But if its a race with fast competition and you are smart, it is likely within your range to break 17. In the future maybe include the rests for the workouts, because without that, these numbers could range in meaning a ton. Best of luck.

I'm training for the Myrtle Beach marathon in March, that's why the long runs have been 18+ miles.

My recovery in the 1000s was 2min standing rest. To be exact, splits were 3:29, 3:24, 3:25, 3:23, 3:20... the last one was tough, but not terrible.

As I mentioned in the original post, my effort level on those 1000s was high, and I'm not sure if I could hold that pace for 5k. But who knows if I'll feel differently in a race environment. Also, the race is in 3 weeks, so I've got a bit of time to progress.

I find that 5x1000 w/ 3' rest typically runs more like 3k-4k pace for me. I think you are close but probably not quite there.

I think you're close but not quite there based on your feeling close to maxed out on the 1k repeats. I would say with high mileage and marathon training ... if you can hit at least 6 and probably 7x 1k at your 5k goal pace, then I would say no problem to break 17. You need to know you can hold that pace when your legs are tired.

Before I ran 17:16 I was doing:

50-55mpw

LT interval runs - worked up to 14, 12, 12 minutes at about 6:00/mile. Jog a few minutes in between

Interval runs - at about 5:40-5:50 pace. I struggle with those / did them on a road loop with some very mild hills.

Speedwork - lots of 200's, all at about 36s each

Long Runs - prog from 8:00/mile down to about 7:00/mile. Longest was 13 miles

Easy runs all at about 8:00/mile

Recovery runs at about 9:00/mile

OP might actually be in sub 17 shape if they do a short (1-2 week) taper and have a really spectacular race.

I feel like the long run of yours is way too long. Your legs will feel fresher for your harder workouts if you shorten it up a bit to 13-15 miles.

help me break 16 wrote:

Before I ran 17:16 I was doing:

50-55mpw

LT interval runs - worked up to 14, 12, 12 minutes at about 6:00/mile. Jog a few minutes in between

Interval runs - at about 5:40-5:50 pace. I struggle with those / did them on a road loop with some very mild hills.

Speedwork - lots of 200's, all at about 36s each

Long Runs - prog from 8:00/mile down to about 7:00/mile. Longest was 13 miles

Easy runs all at about 8:00/mile

Recovery runs at about 9:00/mile

OP might actually be in sub 17 shape if they do a short (1-2 week) taper and have a really spectacular race.

I feel like the long run of yours is way too long. Your legs will feel fresher for your harder workouts if you shorten it up a bit to 13-15 miles.

Thanks, this is helpful. And much of my training looks similar to yours.

The reason my long runs are 18+ miles is because my priority is actually the marathon and this 5k is a tune-up as part of marathon training. I'm racing a marathon on 3/6, so I'm about to enter the peak phase of training and the volume is getting very high.

The way you ran that workout is encouraging—I’m still not sure sub-17 is in the cards in the midst of marathon training, but you have a shot. Running that workout as a cutdown and finishing with a 3:20 and feeling exhausted because you closed hard is different (better) than starting low-3:20s and finishing over 3:25 feeling exhausted because you’re rigging.

For me leading up to when I ran 16:48 a few of my workouts:

8k tempos at 6:20-6:30 pace

35-45 minute fartleks of 1 on 1 off, 2 on 1 off, or 3 on 1 off, with the offs a slow jog and one at 5:55-610 pace on the latter 2 depending on how I felt, and 5:40-6:00 pace on the 1 ons.

Mileage was 70-75 mpw with 16 mile long runs and 10 mile easy runs, no doubles.