Jenna Hutchins is running a track 5k this Friday at the Five and Dime meet in Columbia,SC. Also, high schooler Justin Wachtel of Georgia in the men's elite 5k Friday and Rheinhardt Harrison of Florida looking to break 4 in the mile on Saturday.
LRC Note. This started as a pre-race thread entitled, "Jenna Hutchins Outdoor 5k this Friday- Five and Dime Meet." We changed the title when the record was broken.
People have said Harrison is just looking for a race and not looking to go sub-4.
Windstream wrote:
Jenna Hutchins is running a track 5k this Friday at the Five and Dime meet in Columbia,SC. Also, high schooler Justin Wachtel of Georgia in the men's elite 5k Friday and Rheinhardt Harrison of Florida looking to break 4 in the mile on Saturday.
Any idea on live streaming?
Between Harrison and Hutchins, looks like a blockbuster weekend. Side benefit of covid is that XC goes right to open track meets, allowing these kids a chance to run the fast times.
Hopefully these are straightfoward attempts without excessive pacing. Good luck.
I hope there is tremendous pacing so that she can break the record. My fear is that she will have to lead.
My prediction: 15:35.
I have a feeling that she will be close but miss the record by a few seconds.
Along with Hutchins breaking 16 at Runninglane, Wachtel came in 4th in the boys race with a 14:36. Curious to see how those times translate on the track.
So if we go by the 3200m attempt that would mean 4 pacers pacing her for 14 out of 16 laps. LOL.
If there is one thing the Brown TT fiasco should have shown us is that it is possible to construct a run that creates so many time advantages that it is almost a different sport , and also that people will hype it up anyway.
Fiasco? Brown ran a great TT in 9:39 that impressed everyone in the country except 2 posters here. It certainly raised her stock a bunch.
Uh huh. Not to beat a dead horse, but that "time trial" was an assisted time. Any sub-10 minute 3200 runner would be able to do that given that degree of drafting and pacing, especially in such a workout environment. It is just basic physics and psychology. We just had an actual competitive season where the athlete in question did not achieve anywhere near the results or speed ratings in actual races that one would associate with a validly achieved 3200 record. Where the athlete was just soundly beaten. Where her actual track times (which are quite good btw, especially at Brooks) are no where near that so-called time trial time. But instead of just recognizing the simple facts we get doubling down. Not sure why.
Btw the 5K record falls every few years. But we are at this strange point where people will accept anything and treat it as valid. Why not have multiple virtually full race pacers, or heck pacing if the sport's media sites treat that so-called TT as a valid record breaking event? Beats me. Sad way to attack honestly set records, but it is what it is.
astro, just to help you out - there are records kept for mixed gender races like this time trial. It is legitimate and spoken as a mixed gender time trial. Nothing more, nothing less.
astro wrote:
Uh huh. Not to beat a dead horse, but that "time trial" was an assisted time. Any sub-10 minute 3200 runner would be able to do that given that degree of drafting and pacing, especially in such a workout environment. It is just basic physics and psychology. We just had an actual competitive season where the athlete in question did not achieve anywhere near the results or speed ratings in actual races that one would associate with a validly achieved 3200 record. Where the athlete was just soundly beaten. Where her actual track times (which are quite good btw, especially at Brooks) are no where near that so-called time trial time. But instead of just recognizing the simple facts we get doubling down. Not sure why.
Btw the 5K record falls every few years. But we are at this strange point where people will accept anything and treat it as valid. Why not have multiple virtually full race pacers, or heck pacing if the sport's media sites treat that so-called TT as a valid record breaking event? Beats me. Sad way to attack honestly set records, but it is what it is.
astro wrote:
Uh huh. Not to beat a dead horse, but that "time trial" was an assisted time. Any sub-10 minute 3200 runner would be able to do that given that degree of drafting and pacing, especially in such a workout environment. It is just basic physics and psychology. We just had an actual competitive season where the athlete in question did not achieve anywhere near the results or speed ratings in actual races that one would associate with a validly achieved 3200 record. Where the athlete was just soundly beaten. Where her actual track times (which are quite good btw, especially at Brooks) are no where near that so-called time trial time. But instead of just recognizing the simple facts we get doubling down. Not sure why.
Btw the 5K record falls every few years. But we are at this strange point where people will accept anything and treat it as valid. Why not have multiple virtually full race pacers, or heck pacing if the sport's media sites treat that so-called TT as a valid record breaking event? Beats me. Sad way to attack honestly set records, but it is what it is.
I agree with you. If she breaks the record I hope she does it legitimately and not under some perfectly crafted circumstances. She is fast, so she could definitely do it and leave no doubt.
Exactly. It still blows my mind that people are arguing that a run perfectly constructed to create the maximum time benefits humanly possible with the absolute maximum degree of drafting and pacing possible is somehow comparable to a real race where no one is helping. Do people not understand how hard it is to run on your own, how much physical and mental effort that requires? We just had a real season to put this argument to the test and we know what it showed.
Call me old-fashioned but if you are trying to set a record, especially one set as a total solo effort, than do it legitimately. It has happened before.
When Mary Cain set the outdoor 5K record she had a convoy pulling her to the line.
Portland Track Festival 2013
1 Jarzynska, Karolina Unattached 15:25.52A
2 Moser, Treniere Nike Oregon Project 15:35.96A
3 Thweatt, Laura Boulder Track Club 15:41.38A
4 Erdmann, Tara Nike Oregon Project 15:42.39A
5 Johnson, kellyn adidas McMillan 15:44.78A
6 Cain, Mary Unattached 15:45.46A
Most of the top 10 did not win their race. They are all legit.
Top Ten:
15:37.12i Katelyn Tuohy (North Rockland, Thiells, New York) 2018
15:45.46 Mary Cain (Bronxville, New York) 2013
15:48.91 Emily Sisson (Parkway Central, Chesterfield, Missouri) 2010
15:50.32 Cayla Hatton (Phillips, Andover, Massachusetts) 2012
15:52.88 Caitlin Chock (Granite Bay, California) 2004
15:55.75i Brie Oakley (Grandview, Centennial, Colorado) 2017
15:55.94 Wesley Frazier (Ravenscroft, Raleigh, North Carolina) 2013
15:56.84 Fiona O’Keeffe (Davis, California) 2016
16:00.4 Cathy Schiro (Dover, New Hampshire) 1985
16:08.83i Weini Kelati’ (Heritage, Leesburg, Virginia) 2016
What do you want to do with Young's 3000 record?
astro wrote:
So if we go by the 3200m attempt that would mean 4 pacers pacing her for 14 out of 16 laps. LOL.
If there is one thing the Brown TT fiasco should have shown us is that it is possible to construct a run that creates so many time advantages that it is almost a different sport , and also that people will hype it up anyway.
Do I now have to rescind all of my PRs I ran in races where I didn't win and had runners with me the entire way? Please answer promptly as I now have massive guilt and anxiety over your perception of this.
astro wrote:
Call me old-fashioned but if you are trying to set a record, especially one set as a total solo effort, than do it legitimately. It has happened before.
Tuohy had girls to chase throughout her race/TT (not to mention far better crowd/atmospherics than Brown had for her 3200). Pretty ideal race setup, short of having pacers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWPNjmcveXUTuohy is legend, but if Hutchins runs 15:32, as I suspect she will, her place is deserved just as much. I just wish that Sydney T was in this one.
If you mean to pass, then yes. 3-4 times. Don't see how running in the second lane is an advantage, but Ok. Anyway good luck to all.