Best SUNY running schools

curiousparent88 wrote:

I was wondering what options my son might be interested to run for in NYS. I like Bing and Stony Brook. Geneseo and UB seem pretty good too. I just want to know what’s the best option running wise, team culture, coaching, price, academics? Anyone help me out please

I've heard some NYS runners call UB the graveyard. Place where good runners go to die. Bing/Stony Brook/ Albany all have decent D1 programs. Academically similar depending on the program. Your best programs for D3 are Geneseo and recently Oneonta.

What does your son want to study? Cost-wise they will all be pretty similar. Which one offers the best academics will depend on what your son wants to study. In terms of team culture and coaching, I would suggest you check the accomplishments of the coaches of the schools that have good academics for the major that your son wants to pursue. I have coached in the SUNYAC and know most of the coaches at most of the SUNY schools (both D1 and D3). Just because a school is D1 doesn't mean the coaches and culture there are better. There are some great coaches and some terrible coaches across all the SUNY schools, and it might not be obvious which is which based on results over the past couple of years if you don't consider the circumstances; that's why I recommend you consider the career accomplishments of the coaches and the trends of the teams. Or post more information, and I can try to give you a more specific opinion.

I think that as others have noted the key should be what the student wants to study. There are a lot of good options.

I think my alma mater, Albany, has the best track program of the system, and they have a great distance coach.

Best ROI:

SUNY Maritime College

curiousparent88 wrote:

I was wondering what options my son might be interested to run for in NYS. I like Bing and Stony Brook. Geneseo and UB seem pretty good too. I just want to know what’s the best option running wise, team culture, coaching, price, academics? Anyone help me out please

Stony Brook has had some recent success in cross country, but historically Bing and Stony Brook are the best SUNY schools athletically for track and XC. Bing has had a lot of great individuals (Erik van Ingen, Jesse Garn, Eric Holt, currently Dan Schaffer) running sub-4:00/sub-8:00 but Stony’s XC team has been phenomenal the last couple years (on par with schools like Cuse, Iona, and the best of the Ivies). Albany has the best track team but not so good distance wise, though they’ve had a few successful runners in the past. Price is going to be nearly identical at all of them, but Bing has the least funding for their program so if your son could get a scholarship one of the others might be cheaper. Academically I would say Bing is the best but they’re all fairly close. Coaching depends on what kind of runner your son is; a self-motivated athlete who will push himself too hard without someone reining him in would do best at Bing, while someone who needs some “tough love” and accountability would do better at Stony. Not so sure about Albany but something I can definitely say about all three (and all D1 running) is that talent is king. The cream always rises to the top.

As far as UB and Geneseo go, I’ll say this; academics are fine, but athletics is a huge mixed bag. UB has had success but they also have a big graveyard, and I’ve seen many a 4:15 guy go there and never run faster. Geneseo on the other hand is a massive D3 team, which means you have a big mix as far as how motivated people are, and the team culture is not one solid thing. Scholarship is also not a thing so it’s automatically at least tied for the most expensive option.

Personally, I would recommend Bing for the academics and Coach Acuff’s ability to turn a talented kid into a true star but I’m biased because that’s my alma mater, I had a lot of friends go through Stony Brook that did very well there athletically and academically so I’d give them my #2 spot. Albany, UB, and Geneseo are all more mixed, but the right person might thrive at any of those schools. I would advise you to try to visit those schools, both as a student and also as an athlete, and talk to the coaches, and then think about making a decision.

Admittedly I’m biased, but I’m not sure how you can group Albany with Buffalo and Geneseo behind Binghamton and Stony Brook. Binghamton and Stony Brook are in the same conference and Albany has won indoors and outdoors for both men and women ‘s team almost every single year for more than a decade. When you have that kind of consistent success, culture often follows.

Now, I appreciate your distinction between cross country and track and agree that Albany doesn’t have the depth in cross country that it does in track, but they always have a couple of decent distance runners and Coach Jones (the distance coach) has developed talent over time.

Heck, go check the results from D1 northeast regionals last year for the women - the winner was from Albany! They’ve also had two guys go under 14:20 in the last few years; neither of whom was particularly highly touted.

On top of that, check out Albany’s schedule. Tons of great meets in NYC and Boston indoors. They often go to Puerto Rico or Jamaica to open the spring season. They often go to The Florida Relays. They have consistently sent their better distance runners out to Stanford for their big meet. Penn Relays, obviously.

The distance squad at Albany is definitely smaller strategic recruiting decision by Coach Vives), but it’s a tight knit group with lots of great opportunities to race, a great technical coach in Coach Jones, and, in Coach Vives, a great emotional leader who has been able to secure a great budget to go to great meets in an era when track teams are getting cut altogether.

Albany distance is glaringly sparse. That top female transferred out for grad school. Certainly stronger potential to be good on the women's side there. "Strategic recruiting decision" is also why they don't put anything into distance, not saying it doesn't work on the track, but most of the conference they compete in is woefully underfunded. If the director doesn't care about distance, that's going to be reflected in the team culture. Their men's team has had their scholarship allotment cut, as well, I believe. You could field a halfway decent team with just walk-ons at a SUNY, but they haven't. I think they are limited with roster spots, a problem at all the D1 SUNY schools, save for Stony Brook, I think. Is Jones even a full-time coach on staff? Pine Bush trails possibly the best place to run out of the SUNYs, if you can still access them.

Binghamton is hard to get into, and they don't give out any academic scholarship, and don't have a ton of athletic aid. They do really well with the kids they get, though it's been a little while since they've gotten a whole team rolling. Hilly area to run, nature preserve on campus.

People talk about kids going to Buffalo to never be heard from again, but a lot of their top runners in a distance-heavy conference and at the Regional level were walk-ons or under-recruited kids, so it cuts both ways.There's lots of good runners who lose interest in college. How much of that is on the kid? They've had some flashes at Regionals. No idea on trails in Buffalo.

Stonybrook has had the most recent success and been the most dominant out of that group, especially over the last 5 years or so, being top-5 at the region, head and shoulders above the rest, though no appearances at NCAAs, but close. Talking about a couple guys running 14:20, I think Stony Brook had a whole team of 14:20 guys, if not then maybe 7 under 14:30 on the roster. I know there's a good State Park/trail system nearby, but think they predominantly run on roads.

It honestly depends on what kind of an athlete your son is. As the people in this thread who are arguing Bing/Stony Brook/Albany as the best D1 school in NYS are showing, there are a lot of great D1 options here. That would be a good option if you're son is a true talent and would be able to excel by getting trained at a very high level. Personally I think Stony Brook is the best right now--bunch of guys I know (I'm a section v alum) went there and I know they'll do well.

For the sake of argument though, let's say your son is a hard-worker who runs fair times but clearly isn't cut out for one of these programs... It's important to acknowledge that if that's the case, because there is nothing worse than being ignored by a D1 coach who needs to spend their time on more talented guys. Either way, at this point, my personal suggestion would be Geneseo. Yeah they're D3, but they consistently go to NCAAs in XC and from what I can have a decent culture. I think the big thing there to have success is to avoid the party scene there. I'm sure that's the case at Oneonta too. Not sure about Fredonia, but I know a few talents did well there--some guys around 4 flat there a while ago.

In my opinion, I'd stay away from UB. Can confirm that it is called the graveyard, especially for section 5 and 6 runners. They may have some talent flashes there, but the general consensus is that something is not clicking there.

Is there a certain reason you are only looking at SUNY? There are a bunch of great options in NYS outside of SUNY--even if finance is the main concern...

Grateful Dane wrote:

That top female transferred out for grad school.

Yeah, she transferred out for grad school, but she transferred to Oregon. Hardly an indictment of the program. In fact, it is a testament to the program that a woman who was basically a local walk on was developed into such a good runner that moving on to Oregon - and having all of the opportunities that go along with that, especially for someone with her background - was an option.

Yes, Coach Jones is a full time coach. He is, in fact, the head coach of the men's and women's programs, with Coach Vives being the program director. My sense is that Coach Jones will take over the program when Coach Vives, who is in his mid-60s, retires.

We do agree, however, that depth is not Albany's strong point. I would farther and say that the ONLY real challenge with sending a young distance athlete to Albany is that lack of depth. They have developed and produced a lot of higher end middle distance and distance athletes.

Gered Burns was an All American at 800m. Hannah Reinhardt won cross country regionals last year. She also was 2nd in the conference outdoors in the 1500m (again, in a conference with Stony Brook and Binghamton). Cara Sherman won the 10,000m at the conference meet. The men had the top male 800m out of any of the SUNY schools in the conference, the top male 3000m out of any of the SUNY schools in the conference (2nd overall, beating 7 Stony Brook guys in the process - some serious depth at Stony Brook needs to be acknowledged), and the same guy was the top male 5000m out of any of the SUNY schools in the conference (2nd overall) .

The reality is that you can win conference meets a whole lot easier with sprinters who can also run relays, and learn jumps and hurdles. So Coach Vives has done the right thing from a program perspective - something that has allowed him to dominate the conference and keep a healthy budget that allows all of his athletes to compete all over the countru - at the expense of some depth on the distance side of things.

Final point: I was the last of the D3 runners at Albany. I believe I had D1 talent (I walked on at Albany with no prior running experience), but do not regret running D3 at all. If OP's child isn't a front line D1 talent, I would agree with those posters who have recommended Geneseo or other D3 options. It was an incredible, and truly life changing, experience for me.

Wait so you ran at Albany over 20 years ago then. How does that make you qualified to talk about it as a DI school? Albany's distance team is the worst out of the DI SUNYs. Your opinion is based on decades old semi-facts. Tell me about facts. If Albany was at an XC meet with the rest of SUNY, how would they stack up?

Here are the results from last year's America East Men's CC Championship, which included Albany, Binghamton and SBU, but not UB.

https://www.lancertiming.com/results/fall19/ae-m.htm

SBU had 6 runners finish before Binghamton's top runner, and 7 runners before Albany's top runner.

SBU was 1st, Binghamton was 5th, and Albany was 7th, out of 9 teams.

While I ran there in the early 90s, that doesn't prevent me from having first hand knowledge about the team.

- I stay in contact with the program's director, who was my former head coach, regularly.

- I have watched the team compete in probably 4 of the last 5 years as their travel budget has brought them to UCF or the University of Florida most springs.

- I met with Coach Jones and Coach Vives at the NCAA coaches conference in December.

- There are almost countless online resources available today that allow someone to track a team's athletes; including results from conference meets.

And while I was D3, the OP asked about SUNY schools, not just D1 schools. It just so happens that I know that my former D3, but now D1, program happens to be a SUNY school.

Albany is not going to win the conference in cross country. I would note though that cross country is not the be-all, end-all of running. Track counts too, even for distance runners. Ignoring the fact that Albany has absolutely dominated its conference, which includes Stony Brook and Binghamton, in both indoor and outdoor track for over a decade ignores 2/3rds of the year. While cross country is the best when it comes to camaraderie, being part of the top track team in your conference and the top track team in the SUNY system, was a whole lot of fun, even back in the D3 days. I suspect it is still fun for D1 athletes.

And this: "your opinion is based on decades old semi-facts" is simply not true. I gave you facts from the 2019 season (the last truly full year) when I noted Reinhardt won NCAA regionals in cross country, Sherman won the 10,000m at the conference meet, Reinhardt finished 2nd in the 1500m at the conference meet, where Gronostaj was 2nd in both the 3000m and 5000m at the conference meet, and where Albany had the top finisher of the SUNY schools in the 800m at the conference meet.

I am not disputing that other SUNY schools have better cross country teams. But that makes up a third of the year and doesn't go to all of the OPs questions, which include team culture. I would argue that having a coaching staff that develops the talent that it gets and having a program that goes to some of the better meets in the country are important parts of that discussion, even if they won't beat other teams in cross country.

johnny99 wrote:

Here are the results from last year's America East Men's CC Championship, which included Albany, Binghamton and SBU, but not UB.

https://www.lancertiming.com/results/fall19/ae-m.htm

SBU had 6 runners finish before Binghamton's top runner, and 7 runners before Albany's top runner.

SBU was 1st, Binghamton was 5th, and Albany was 7th, out of 9 teams.

Yes, Stony Brook was great that year with a bunch of seniors. Most if not all graduated last spring..... gonna be a small rebuild there

Watch out for Binghamton though (You forgot Dan Schaffer didnt run this meet) and their recruiting classes the last couple of years have been great. (Couple NXN guys that have signed there the last few years)

AETruth wrote:

johnny99 wrote:

Here are the results from last year's America East Men's CC Championship, which included Albany, Binghamton and SBU, but not UB.

https://www.lancertiming.com/results/fall19/ae-m.htm

SBU had 6 runners finish before Binghamton's top runner, and 7 runners before Albany's top runner.

SBU was 1st, Binghamton was 5th, and Albany was 7th, out of 9 teams.

Yes, Stony Brook was great that year with a bunch of seniors. Most if not all graduated last spring..... gonna be a small rebuild there

Watch out for Binghamton though (You forgot Dan Schaffer didnt run this meet) and their recruiting classes the last couple of years have been great. (Couple NXN guys that have signed there the last few years)

UMass Lowell looks to be the definitive favorite for the AE title next year, but yeah Schaffer was injured last fall before running 4:00/7:58/14:03 indoors (and he was the top returner entering last fall). This is also the first year in awhile that Binghamton actually seems to have out-recruited Stony Brook, with their new sophomore class being very strong (including probably the best sophomore in the conference) and a freshman who qualified for NXN. Stony still has a much stronger junior and senior class, led by Rob Becker, so this year they might still come out on top but the next couple years will get pretty interesting teamwise.

Binghamton has been awful. Many years they don’t even finish in the top 20 of the region. I don’t understand why anyone would go there to run for Annette. How many NY State Champions does she need to ruin before they fire her? She doesn’t have the same excuses that Albany has. Binghamton has had three good individuals in the past 15 years. She can’t coach a full team.

I'm a Stony Brook alum from the early 80s, when they were all still DIII. Got nothing to add, although I do root for SB, then all the other SUNY schools. I remember the Albany Invite being one of our big trips and then returning there for the DIII regionals - usually running in the snow.

Academically, Bing seems to be the most sought after SUNY school, (many of my friends children go there). But if the sciences are to be a priority, SB tops the list, having affiliations with Brookhaven Nat'l Labs and (the former) Computer Associates Charles Wang being a huge benefactor.

Back in the late 60s (I think) SB was in the national news, when it was raided for having a weed farm on campus.

Keep the convo going!

One interesting change in the SUNY system since the 80s and 90s is that the university centers used to all be roughly equals from an academic standpoint, with only small differences in the average SAT scores of the incoming students. The primary distinction between the universities was their primary area of academic focus. At the time I was in school there, Albany was known for its business school, Binghamton was generally liberal arts focused, Buffalo was known for engineering, and Stony Brook was where aspiring pre-med students would go.

Now it seems that each school operates much more independently and those old classifications no longer apply. Binghamton has clearly become the school with the best academic reputation and, as much as it pains me to say it, Albany is probably at the bottom of the 4 university centers (and is behind Geneseo from a statistical standpoint and probably from a reputation standpoint within academia (although if I were looking for a job in NYC, I would prefer Albany on my resume over Geneseo)).

Just out of curiosity, what are people's opinions of other SUNY schools we haven't really talked about here? Fredonia, Brockport, Alfred, Morrisville, Oneonta, Cortland? Others? Asking from both an academic and athletic standpoint here.

Binghamton and Buffalo is where great hs runners go to die