Two questions about Biden's student loan plan

While I agree that the increasing burden of student loans is a problem, I don't believe debt forgiveness is the solution. We need to rethink who college is for and why one would spend 4+ years and $50k+ to get a degree. The solution is not to make it more accessible to anyone thinking that it is somehow the key to success or more money...Certainly de-valuing higher education will only further de-value the degree you attain at the end of it.

With the availability of online courses both free and pain I honestly don't understand the push to get more people through college.

Their are more lucrative ways to gain knowledge and a high level of income. In fact the US is in desperate need of people to fill the roles of incredibly well paying technical jobs that require a fraction of the investment and guarantee much better pay!

As someone that worked alot and recieved family help getting through undergrad(without loans) and currently am getting paid to go to graduate school it is mildly infuriating to know that the people a debt forgiveness plan would most benefit are those the absolutely wasted their loan money. I know many people that spend tens of thousands in loans on cars, computers, VACATIONS!!!, etc while in school...This is an issue that must at least be acknowledged if not addressed before we can seriously move forward.

No I have never been overly fond of sleazeball school administrators. They should be penalized for unethical behavior.

Sorry don't support a free ride though. Lowered interest rates yes.

Dan Kahneman wrote:

Sorry don't support a free ride though. Lowered interest rates yes.

You don't have to be. That's what elections are for.

I would probably err on the side of the people instead of administrators though, if I were you.

smeagler wrote:

I know many people that spend tens of thousands in loans on cars, computers, VACATIONS!!!, etc while in school...This is an issue that must at least be acknowledged if not addressed before we can seriously move forward.

Me too. One guy I knew spent his loan money on season football tickets he then resold for a profit. Isn't it awful that school administrators give them this money to play with? A real lender never would. That's the problem. If the money was not dischargeable that money would never be lent to subprime borrowers with no realistic means to ever repay.

CarbonFiberJoe wrote:

baa baa wool wrote:

Imagine being daft enough to think these are clever questions.

How much student loan debt did it take you to think of this retort?

Doesn't take no collidge lurnin' to acknowledge a pathetic thread.

Dan Kahneman wrote:

Your second point might have a bit more validity. "Its designed to help the public as a whole". But, I don't think its good for society to reinforce those who have not been that responsible with money and to discourage those who have been frugal.

You could say that about the first people to receive social security benefits.

It wasn't fair at the time to those before them who saved and didn't get government benefits.

The first recipients did not pay into the system.

But you have to start somewhere.

And now we have an equitable social security system that was not so equitable in the beginning.

$50K? Average is $50k per year.

versy tile wrote:

$50K? Average is $50k per year.

Source?

Not at all the same. Everyone got social security. We are talking about giving the least deserving people money here and penalizing the people who worked or paid their way or skipped college because they couldn't afford it or chose a low cost college so that they didn;t run up debt. The equivalent here would be to just give everyone $10k who is over the age of 18 without respect to student loans. I could live with that.

Primo Numero Uno wrote:

Why should middle-class white-collar debt be repaid but credit card debt held by blue-collar Americans without college degrees not be forgiven?

Is that how you view knowledge and education then? Akin to shopping and putting it on a credit card?

versy tile wrote:

$50K? Average is $50k per year.

Which shows a lot of people (kids and their parents) are making dumb decisions.....at least those who are taking majors with no job prospects.

Go to junior college for two years and then transfer to a state school. That will cost a lot less than $200k for 4 years.

My story,

I graduated with a degree on Oceanography. I didn’t have enough money to go to grad school. I was in considerable debt. Sounds familiar young folks?

There were few to no opportunities for a guy like me. I went to work for a developer because I had experience working my way through college in construction. Honestly, I felt fortunate to have the job. Eventually I got married and had a family with two kids. Then just after 9/11 the construction industry got quiet and I was laid off.

I started a contracting company with my credit card. After several years of hardship including 2008, things started clicking. I am now making money and paying for my kids to get through college.

Never once did I look back and think that anyone should be helping me. My parents instilled these values in me at a young age and I am happy they did.

I wonder whether I am doing the right thing paying for my kids to go through college. Will they have the same entitlement mentality that is prevalent amongst millennials and Gen Z?

We have created a generation or two that really feel that everyone else is responsible for every downturn in their lives. So, I feel like in this way I am part of the problem. We wanted to give our kids the opportunities we did not have. But somewhere along the way we did not give them the skills to be independent.

We are also the first real generation whose children aren't expected to be more successful than their parents. That's due to a number of factors, but partly because we try to shoehorn EVERYONE into college.

Oceanography...why didn't you become a HS teacher?

DeTron Lames wrote:

Continued tax cuts by the Bush and Trump administration have starved universities of federal money they used to get. Coupled with state income tax cuts in red states, public schools have been forced to greatly increase tuition to cover the loses. For example, Republican Scott Walker cut $250 million per year from the budget of the University of Wisconsin. They only raised in state tuition $2k since then, but out of state tuition has gone from $40k to $54k.

Maybe taxpapers as a whole should chip in more, maybe not. I haven't decided.

In some states, loan forgiveness is tied to employment. Get a job with the state (or the schools, libraries, police, whatever), and work for 5-10 years, and your debt is wiped. I would support a plan that has recent grads doing something to benefit society and getting loan forgiveness for that.

This was in place during up until the current administration. Work in a public hospital etc, for 10 years and have a loan in good standing (i.e. keep paying at least the minimum) and loans would be forgiven. Two problems A. it was a s*** show and more than half of applicants who followed the rules were denied on paperwork errors. B. it was shutdown by Trump/Devos. I relocated and set up my life to work in a public hospital for 5 years prior counting on this program. Now I'm SOL.

Average Cost of College Statistics and Key Findings

Average Total Cost of Public Colleges: $25,290 (in-state) $40,940 (out-of-state)

Average Total Cost of Private Colleges: $50,900

More than 19.9 million students are projected to attend American colleges and universities in fall 2018, with around 6.7 million going to two-year institutions and 13.3 million going to four-year institutions.

Some examples

Oregon $26k instate - $52k nonresident

Wisconsin $26k instate - $52k nonresident

NAU $27k instate - $41k nonresident

Virginia $33k instate - $64k nonresident

Michigan $30k instate - $64k nonresident

Syracuse $70k

Stanford $75k

ryan evans wrote:

smeagler wrote:

I know many people that spend tens of thousands in loans on cars, computers, VACATIONS!!!, etc while in school...This is an issue that must at least be acknowledged if not addressed before we can seriously move forward.

Me too. One guy I knew spent his loan money on season football tickets he then resold for a profit. Isn't it awful that school administrators give them this money to play with? A real lender never would. That's the problem. If the money was not dischargeable that money would never be lent to subprime borrowers with no realistic means to ever repay.

What's wrong with that? He made a profit which gave him more cash to pay down debt principal. The lender funded a profitable venture in this case.

Bear wrote:

versy tile wrote:

$50K? Average is $50k per year.

Which shows a lot of people (kids and their parents) are making dumb decisions.....at least those who are taking majors with no job prospects.

Go to junior college for two years and then transfer to a state school. That will cost a lot less than $200k for 4 years.

Sorry, but the state school has a little racket going on. You see, when you apply to transfer you learn the state school somehow just won't accept most of the credits from the JC so it will still take 3-4 years to get your degree from the state school.

browski wrote:

We are also the first real generation whose children aren't expected to be more successful than their parents. That's due to a number of factors, but partly because we try to shoehorn EVERYONE into college.

Oceanography...why didn't you become a HS teacher?

Yeah, I could have thought about that but at the time I needed a job within a two week period or literally get kicked out on the street. That’s how bad it was.

The difference was I blamed myself. Kind of like if I fell on the floor in a store and got hurt I would be embarrassed as opposed to filing a suit against the store.

I really am sincere when I say that we caused this thought pattern amongst our youth. There will be a major event at some point that will change attitudes for future generations, but this one will never dig out of their holes.

Those universities expected to be paid for all the leftist brainwashing they do. Here it is.