(Road Racing and) Time Trialing and Training Thread - Week Ending 9/27/20

runnerchef wrote:

highhoppingworm wrote:

“Let’s run road racing and training thread” is it’s name.

Nice, thanks! I just requested to join

As gate keeper of the club I approved.

BHViking, well that's an interesting question that I have been asked so many times over the years. I guess to explain I don't approach my training like most people do with planned workouts or interval sessions. The only thing I really focus on is hitting my 13.5 miles a day, or whatever mileage goal I set. For a 9 week period I decided that 14.5 miles a day was what I wanted to do, so that became normal. At some point I will cut that back to 12.4 as I really don't need to be running 90+ miles a week all the time. I stopped doing most of that type of training many years ago as I have always just liked to run fast everyday. I never really enjoyed track workouts or running on the track in general. Even when I was doing workouts, I still would end up going fast on the easy days. For my normal daily runs, I usually start out a 6:00 pace, and just go from there. I can usually gauge how the run will go when I see my mile one split. An example would be Saturday's run, first mile was 5:55, then the next two were 5:29's. I've done this type of training for so many years now that its just become what I do, and I'm lucky enough at almost 40 to still be running in the 15's pretty much year round. I used a Suunto heart rate monitor for a few years, but the heart rate strap had issues over and over so I just use the watch.

BHViking wrote:

As for me, I took a bad step last Saturday and somehow managed to step on the side of my foot while running. I followed the RICE protocol of rest, ice, compression and elevate. Swelling and bruising are gone although it's a bit tender. I took 7 full days off of running. Yesterday I did 2 short treadmill jogs and this morning I did a 4 mile treadmill jog. Starting to feel much better and I hope to get back into it in the coming days.

Bummer on the ankle - I just went through this a month ago. It'll get a lot better over the next 7 days. Keep RICING!

That's a very interesting mental approach. I feel like we have a lot in common as in the approach that we prefer to take. I too, do not like the Hard-Easy approach. I couldn't help but notice that your weekly logs look very similar to what I've been doing over the summer only at a much faster pace than me. The difference is that I don't look at my pace or splits until after the run is over. Sounds like you go out a lot harder than me as in your Mile 1 split is very close to your overall average. My Mile 1 might be somewhere around 7:45 then everything after that might be in that 6:45 to 7:15 range but is pretty steady.

I do like the fact that you set a mileage target and that is priority 1. I'd like to run a little closer to your mileage. In August I averaged 75.5 miles per week. I'd like it closer to 90. I will have to slow down at first to do so but in time I hope that my daily paces will naturally improve by letting them come to me.

Thank you, this is very inspiring!

Sub 6:00 wrote:

The Stone Cutter wrote:

My bad. The Artist Formerly Known as GT. Monsieur Nightingale.

Hah! I’d actually made that connection, but it slipped past me today.

I ran about 6miles each MTW including a few 1min repeats up a hill on Tuesday. Things were going so well I decided to take the rest of the week off.

Total - 17.5mi

The Stone Cutter wrote:

darkwave wrote:

Stone - the comeback continues. And it's good to see that Mrs. Stone is right back at it. Can you share which half she's targeting? I might try to make that one.

Sure, no problem, here’s a link:

https://runsignup.com/Race/NJ/Williamstown/RuntheVineyardsCorkHighBottleDeepHalfMarathon?aflt_token=EZnEDCiIAbEP0IXNk3reBNJGJev1hmeL

Thanks. It's tempting, but that off road section is a turn-off. It sounds like an understatement now, but...my ankles aren't the greatest and I've never felt comfortable or good on unpaved surfaces.

Victor Nightingale wrote:

Sub 6:00 wrote:

Hah! I’d actually made that connection, but it slipped past me today.

Now we just need AJ , JB and Smoove with their slacker weeks and the thread will be complete

https://yarn.co/yarn-clip/4532ea80-2955-497c-b0c6-e9f0823b1b0c#CdHnsdH5WWd.copy

I ran about 6miles each MTW including a few 1min repeats up a hill on Tuesday. Things were going so well I decided to take the rest of the week off.

Total - 17.5mi

M 24 6' 134ish

PRs: 1:59, 4:12*, 8:25*, 15:00(!), 32:52 :(

Monday: AM 5 PM 5.2

Tuesday: AM 6.3 PM 4

Wednesday: 4x200@30, 3x1 mile@5:18, 5:17, 5:15 (1 min rec), 1k in 2:49, 200 in 31 (9 total)

Thursday: AM 4 PM 3.6

Friday: 4.7@7:20+4x15 second strides

Saturday: 5k road race in 15:00. 8.5ish total

Sunday: 10@7:39

RACE: Got towed by an elite field including one Olympian for a fast start to the 5k... Blasted out an adrenaline and espresso-fueled 9:26 first two miles and suffered like never before in the last mile... still satisfied with the time and the fact that I really went for it. 44 second PR. I will run much faster in April! One more week of the training cycle. Will time trial a 1k and possibly a mile. Then take a down week before getting ready to start training seriously for the 800/mile and hopefully an indoor track season.

Total: 61 miles in 7.5 hours

SK: congrats man. You have put in a ton of good work and it’s obviously starting to pay dividends. It’s been great to follow your training and look forward to continued progress.

Lanc: psyched to see your 5k this weekend. Good luck!

BHV - Yes, I enjoyed every bit of that hilly long run. Hoping for more like that in the coming weeks. Leaning heavily toward the Harrisburg Marathon. Gotta start pounding the long stuff...

Seppo - All I can say is...I told you so. Now on to the 10k. Beastly.

Some comments:

hhw: Easy "effort" creeping up may be bad. Faster pace at easy effort is good, no?

rrr: Congrats on the post-injury 12 miler.

darkwave: Really interesting on the ankle/angle. My problem is with my heel, but I also find that a mental focus on my hips... almost as if leading with my hips instead of tilting at the ankles... gets me a little bit more forward and relieves a bit of heel/achilles/ankle stress. But if I don't focus on it, I tend to slouch back. Maybe I need to work the core a bit. Rooting for you!

slow miles: Congrats on finishing hard. Shows good mental toughness. I also think it's great the way you're thinking strategically.

runnerchef: The heat and humidity twins suck. Don't let them get in your head. You'll be flying in better weather.

Agreed Coach Jeff. I guess I was just worried about setting a new baseline that I feel beholden too once I start inserting more quality. This is clearly something I can and should be able to control for. I will shut-up about it now.

I did my first Daniels R pace workout today (and my first faster workout in months). Besides messing up the pacing and not feeling all that great it was a lot of fun. I forgot how enjoyable shorter intervals can be.

That are fun. 200s are prob my favorite. Altho if for out to hot on the first few it can get painful. What shoe you go with?

Old next’s. Not sure my calves are quite ready for 5 miles in streaks.

Gonna get the feet weak w all the carbon fiber shoes , at least thats my theory

runrincerepeat wrote:

Gonna get the feet weak w all the carbon fiber shoes , at least thats my theory

I think people are more worried about this than they should be... Unless you're really wearing them for every run.

I wear a carbon shoe for workouts and long runs. I find for the workouts, it's nice to feel fast. And for long runs, the foam in those shoes helps me feel much less beat up. So maybe I'm in a carbon shoe for like 20-24 miles a week of my 70. The rest are in trainers. I don't think there will be a marked difference in strength given that ratio.

But hey, who knows?! It's like a big experiment with all the new stuff coming out now. I think zero drop shoes are crazy and can't imagine how anyone can run in those 7 days a week, but there are plenty of folks out there that swear by them.

I agree with Lanc. I am also far more concerned about my delicate calves than my feet at present. I have actually never had a foot injury before.

I probably shouldn't have said that.

LancRunner wrote:

runrincerepeat wrote:

Gonna get the feet weak w all the carbon fiber shoes , at least thats my theory

But hey, who knows?! It's like a big experiment with all the new stuff coming out now. I think zero drop shoes are crazy and can't imagine how anyone can run in those 7 days a week, but there are plenty of folks out there that swear by them.

Yup. I find zero drop nike free type shoes to be much more comfortable than Vaporfly/Endorphin type shoes. All in the biomechanics.

I've said my piece on training in the carbon-plated shoes before, so I'll just drop one more thought here. Sometimes runners get too caught up in the absolute times of their splits during workouts rather than focusing on the broader and more important point of improving fitness. I worry that consistently wearing the plated shoes during workouts plays into that mindset.

Of the runners I observe locally. there seems to be a high correlation between a) training in plated shoes and b) consistently underperforming in races as compared to workout performances. (of course, this is an observation from last year - haven't had a chance to see much racing currently)

Should also add - I'm not accusing anybody on this thread of being a workout hero. Just noting that in my observation of runners in my local area, training in plated shoes consistently correlates strongly with being a workout hero. (correlation may not be causation)