(Road Racing and) Time Trialing and Training Thread - Week Ending 8/30/20

darkwave: I have no knowledge or experience related to the symptoms and test results you posted about, but I just wanted to say that your diligent, relentless, holistic approach to running has inspired me to strive to be more balanced/holistic in my own approach. I come no where near to your regimen, but there are times when I don't feel like stretching or foam rolling that I think to myself "dw is in the middle of streaming yoga or pool running...what's your sorry excuse?" For whatever that's worth, thanks.

drcrusher wrote:It's been a years since I took more than a rare week off running at a time, and I didn't use an HR monitor back when I took more than a week, so I guess I just don't know what to expect from a longer time off. Any thoughts?

Your post brings to mind a recent discussion on the 50+ training thread. Some of those guys have LITERALLY not taken a day off in 45 years. Others have maintained national-class fitness for decades, rare if any "down time."

On the other hand, being somewhat a slacker and easily distracted, I've been in a 47-year cycle of being out of shape, trying to return to fitness, failing, sort of succeeding, back out of shape again.

The start of every attempted comeback includes odd aches and pains, amazement that the second mile of a 2-mile run feels like the end of a marathon, and, yes, ridiculous soreness the next day.

But each comeback also sees amazing improvements. Measurable weekly improvements. Astounding monthly improvements. What a hoot!

Where's that joy for the runner who maintains fitness, year after year -- maybe seeing limited gains, but eventually facing the relentless regression of old age?

Yes, call me an underachiever, but this roller coaster has been a heckuva ride! Hey, I just dropped TWO minutes off my 7-mile time -- in ONE week!

Enjoy!

Re: Cycling - I read somewhere that 3:1 is the accepted ratio of cycling-to-running miles, so that's what I've been going with since I've been coming back from injury.

Aerobically that is the yardstick most use.. I know physically 210 on the bike is a lot easier than 70 running ( at least for me)

Oh boy, here come the flyers. Just got back from this...in the hills...

11.25 at 6:47 overall...7:19, 7:14, 7:04, 6:53, 6:58, 6:58, 6:57, 6:38, 6:32, 6:26, 5:58, 1:26...felt like nothing. Kept sub-7, even over the big hill (6:58). Could not believe how easily the pace came. Good cloud cover, but still 73 + 71 when I rolled in.

No doubt, the is no comparison between morning and late afternoon with me—none. That run felt like a joke. Dripping in sweat and still a joke.

BHV - I appreciated your comments. Yes, it is beautiful. Pure joy, my friend.

highhoppingworm - looking forward to your 5k TT! Whats your pacing strategy? I'd tell you to set your phone up to record it for us to see, but the wolves would probably snag your phone. Is the track lit by some nearby street lights or anything or are you running in the dark?

coach Jeff - great week, and wow such heat on your long run! ?

Great week outsiderunner! Are you on Strava?

GNR - glad you are feeling better! Pretty solid mileage regardless

The beast’s pint glass is always half full.

rucker- Thanks for the input. Probably gonna use biking as an easy day 1-2 days a week when I get my running back up around 40-50. Don't think I could handle a full running load plus hard cycling, low-impact or not. Fun to push it now though.

Hope your work schedule calms down soon. Props on getting so much running/bike in with those hours.

Thanks for the comments Coach, darkwave, and Allen1959.

I guess at 43 I should start accepting that not only is recovery time longer but recovery means not just "after a hard workout" but "after not working out" haha. I have been running easy since starting up after my two week layoff mostly because my legs were tired and sore and "easy" is all I could muster, but the last couple days I have felt pretty good so may start to mix in a harder run here and there as I feel like it if it continues. Maybe that will shock my heart back into its old ways, as you mused.

I mostly wear the HR monitor just for looking back at data after the run (I got interested in comparing average HR/pace under different conditions, over time, etc.), but when training I did use it sometimes to make sure I wasn't doing easy runs too hard. I'd glance down to check and if it was creeping up, I'd back off. I had months and months of data so was able to correlate pace with HR pretty consistently and usually effort matched in a linear fashion. But now everything has shifted up. My average HR this morning was 147 running 8:40 miles when a month ago, before the break, that pace would have been more like 135-140. But it FELT the same today as then. And I guess that's what I'm going to focus on. The effort was comfortable and easy, whatever my HR was compared to before.

And I'll look at it as, I'm collecting more data in an interesting experiment: how long/many miles until my HR adapts again. And if it doesn't, that's an interesting result in itself.

IB - I actually am moving the TT to Saturday. It will be 12 degrees cooler (based on forecast), slightly less windy and no chance of rain. Seemed worth it to push it out a day.

Pacing strategy: I am hoping to get out in 5:02-5:05 for the first 1600, try to hang tough in the second 1600 between 5:07-5:10 and then see what I can throw at the last 1800. That said, easier said than done. Especially the second 1600.

Darkness/Phone: It will definitely be dark but there is some residual light from the school building nearby which allows for some visibility. I will see if I can set-up a phone and at least get portions of it. I have never really seen myself run so it would actually be kind of interesting.

Still deciding on Next% or AlphaFlys. Currently leaning towards the Next.

imagebearer - The sort answer on Strava is no. I was on it once years ago, just to show a certain route I took, but I do not remember much about the details of that matter. Perhaps AJ does?

Another warm sweaty one on tap here this morning...just get through this one and then a glorious break in the weather is on the way for Friday and onward. Gotta get out and run now (day off from work)...

outsiderunner wrote:

imagebearer - The sort answer on Strava is no. I was on it once years ago, just to show a certain route I took, but I do not remember much about the details of that matter. Perhaps AJ does?

Oh, AJ remembers. It was Garmin Connect, not Strava. See Outsiderunner, Disappointed at NYC, Should I Go Back-to-Back, p. 33 (2016), available at:

https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=7847045&page=33

Thanks, AJ. You are always there when I need you.

Just did and absolute slug-out session with the hot, steamy conditions..a heavy duty shirt-wringer (I wear short sleeves in summer training). Managed 10.5 on the short rest (after yesterday’s late run), but at a slow pace. Just went with what I had, Very much looking forward to this cool weather coming in. Will be ringing it in when it arrives...

Happy running, my friends...

I ran in the Alphaflys last night... I would go next% on the track. I liked the Alphafly's, but just think they are meant for the road. I used them on the track, and just thought the height, the shoe, and everything felt a bit awkward on the track and through the turns. I hope they are better on the road. The next% just feel so good everywhere.

Did my last Half Marathon prep workout last night. 6 miles at HMP. Had a group running together with some folks rotating in and out doing mile repeats or 2 mile repeats. My 6 miles were 5:51, 5:46, 5:42, 5:42, 5:40, 5:36. I think if i would have kept it at high 5:40s I would have felt better at the end and made it through 7 miles, but we cut down a bit and on the last mile, it just felt a bit too hard.

Plan is to go out around 5:50-5:55 for the first 6 miles, and then let it fly on the second half as much as possible. Here goes nothing! 5:50 avg would put me around 1:16:30... if I feel good, I'll go a bit faster if possible. We'll see how the weather is.

Good luck to everybody hitting some time trials in the next few days!

Lanc - Best of success to you! Your plan sounds appropriate. Let it fly in the second half, but pick up the pace gradually. When you get to 10, know the end is near (just a 5k left), and then put the hammer down if you are feeling good. You will know if you are feeling good—if you want to pass people or “attack,” then you are feeling good. The weather is key in longer distances, and so read it carefully and run accordingly. The weather is what it is, and no one beats bad weather.

angryjohnny wrote:

outsiderunner wrote:

imagebearer - The sort answer on Strava is no. I was on it once years ago, just to show a certain route I took, but I do not remember much about the details of that matter. Perhaps AJ does?

Oh, AJ remembers. It was Garmin Connect, not Strava. See Outsiderunner, Disappointed at NYC, Should I Go Back-to-Back, p. 33 (2016), available at:

https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=7847045&page=33

Huge rabbit role - Looking forward to reading all of this epic thread

highhoppingworm wrote:

IB - I actually am moving the TT to Saturday. It will be 12 degrees cooler (based on forecast), slightly less windy and no chance of rain. Seemed worth it to push it out a day.

Pacing strategy: I am hoping to get out in 5:02-5:05 for the first 1600, try to hang tough in the second 1600 between 5:07-5:10 and then see what I can throw at the last 1800. That said, easier said than done. Especially the second 1600.

Darkness/Phone: It will definitely be dark but there is some residual light from the school building nearby which allows for some visibility. I will see if I can set-up a phone and at least get portions of it. I have never really seen myself run so it would actually be kind of interesting.

Still deciding on Next% or AlphaFlys. Currently leaning towards the Next.

Moving it to Sat - perfect! That's the silver lining of these COVID times. I think even the pros benefit from this - I'm sure their pop-up time trials are also weather dependent. Love the pacing strategy! Good luck! If you're able to catch a section of the track so we can see you run by several times - that will be fun! If not, no prob. You got this!

imagebearer wrote:

angryjohnny wrote:

Oh, AJ remembers. It was Garmin Connect, not Strava. See Outsiderunner, Disappointed at NYC, Should I Go Back-to-Back, p. 33 (2016), available at:

https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=7847045&page=33

Huge rabbit role - Looking forward to reading all of this epic thread

Your welcome.