Donovan Brazier fastest 4x4 split

kjl wrote:

Do you not realize he's gone 46-sec FAT indoors!?

https://www.worldathletics.org/athletes/united-states/donavan-brazier-14603138

/Thread

There's been 800m runners who have split 44 low. Devin Dixon split 44.12 at Nationals last year and has run multiple 44 mid to low splits. There is also Emmanuel Korir who has run 44.21 open though granted, neither of those runners run distances higher than the 800. But Brazier was never a 1500m runner to begin with and had to build up that strength. So I would not be surprised if he can run a 44 split on a relay leg. He's run 1:13.77 in the 600m indoors so its hard to say he doesn't have enough speed.

Cheetahspeed, just a correction: Brazier ran cross country and ran the mile in high school. He comes from both a speed and strength background.

Cheetahspeed wrote:

There's been 800m runners who have split 44 low. Devin Dixon split 44.12 at Nationals last year and has run multiple 44 mid to low splits. There is also Emmanuel Korir who has run 44.21 open though granted, neither of those runners run distances higher than the 800. But Brazier was never a 1500m runner to begin with and had to build up that strength. So I would not be surprised if he can run a 44 split on a relay leg. He's run 1:13.77 in the 600m indoors so its hard to say he doesn't have enough speed.

Armstronglivs wrote:

He would be lucky to run sub-46 FAT.

What an unintelligent post.

i have seen people who don't get faster over 400 meters from indoor to outdoor. not sure if has to do with a style of running, or maybe it's just inferior outdoor training.

Also, there is no guarantee has maintained or increased his 400 speed over the past couple years. With the extensive strength work he is doing, which has improved his mile, it is very realistic that he has slowed down a bit.

kjl wrote:

Do you not realize he's gone 46-sec FAT indoors!? He also ran on a 3:07 relay which he split low 45s at A&M. What's with the hate? This guy is the world champion and could have been a threat in the open 400m like Juantorena.

https://www.worldathletics.org/athletes/united-states/donavan-brazier-14603138

Love Donovan, but these hypothetical open 400 times and his potential in open 4s or 4x4s compared to real sprinters is laughable.

Donovan is nowhere near fast enough for open 4s internationally and would be hard pressed to crack the top 20 in the open 4 in the US any year.

Donovan wouldn't beat me any if his fellow 800 competitors in an open 4.

Korir, Saruni, Dixon are a full second and a half faster than Donovan for 400, actual, not speculative

46 low FAT gets you HS state championship but won't get you through the heats in college let alone other international competition.

Donovan would come in DFL against DL 400 guys or even (or especially) against the 400h guys like Warholm.

.... Donovan could get closer to 3:30 for 1500 than he could to 45 flat for 400

1988 Flojo WC and OG have same selection criteria.

2019 WC Rai Benjamin.

kjl wrote:

Do you not realize he's gone 46-sec FAT indoors!? He also ran on a 3:07 relay which he split low 45s at A&M. What's with the hate? This guy is the world champion and could have been a threat in the open 400m like Juantorena.

46.92 is not going to cut it at the USA level.

Armstronglivs wrote:

kjl wrote:

Well, he has an official 45.92 relay split.

I'd put him at 44.8 or so open if he focused on it.

No way. In FAT terms the difference would be nearly 2 seconds - huge over that distance. He would be lucky to run sub-46 FAT. You don't seem to get that the 400 is a sprint, whereas the 800 requires significant aerobic capacity. If that were not so the best 400 guys would be running 800's - and winning. They aren't. (And don't talk about Juantorena, the exception who proves the rule. He was a 20.7 runner over 200. Brazier would be nowhere near that.)

I tend to disagree with the point made about Brazier but agree totally about the difference between 400 and 800 as events.

I'm pretty sure I recall Brazier allegedly running a 45 and bits relay split in the last few years, and he ran a 46.91 indoors a couple of years ago. I'm pretty sure right now that he could run a 45 low 400 relay split, which would be equivalent to a 46 flat open 400m. But 800 guys rarely have a go at running a serious 400m in peak season when focusing on their main event.

Rudisha ran a 45.5 open in early season, and I think I recall a 45 low (maybe 45.15!?) at altitude. He was certainly capable of sub 45 when he was setting his 800m world records.

I think Brazier's 400 speed is as good as Coe's was in 81, when he ran a 45.6 relay very early in season, passing and beating the US 400mhurdler, Williams, on the last leg. While 45.6 on the surface doesn't sound that great, it was the manner in which he did it, stumbling at the hand over, practically coming to a stop at start line. In his example that 45.6 in lane 1 was practically an open 400 and certainly worth sub 46.0. Brazier would be able to do this too; the way he just turned the speed on in that 1500m and coasted a 38 last 300m. He's just not quite as good aerobically yet.

kjl wrote:

Do you not realize he's gone 46-sec FAT indoors!? He also ran on a 3:07 relay which he split low 45s at A&M. What's with the hate? This guy is the world champion and could have been a threat in the open 400m like Juantorena.

https://www.worldathletics.org/athletes/united-states/donavan-brazier-14603138

The U.S. has 14, yes count them, 14 sub 45.00 guys last year.

Nick Symmonds has a world silver medal, ya it's not gold, but he only could run like 47.45 seconds in an open 400. Brazier would have to run 44.9 in the open 400 to even have a shot. I don't think he can swing that, that's fast. I'd be impressed with Brazier if he ran 45.5 in the open 400, and that wouldn't be good enough to make the US team.

kjl wrote:

Do you not realize he's gone 46-sec FAT indoors!? He also ran on a 3:07 relay which he split low 45s at A&M. What's with the hate? This guy is the world champion and could have been a threat in the open 400m like Juantorena.

https://www.worldathletics.org/athletes/united-states/donavan-brazier-14603138

I don't think he's showing 'hate'. He makes good points. You have gone a bit far with the Juantorena comparison. Brazier isn't and wouldn't be that good over 400m imho.

EL Caballo ran 44.2 (sea level WR then) open and that would be more like 43.8 on today's tracks with current spikes.

And Brazier ran 46.9 indoors, so stating 46 sec is a bit misleading, as impressive a time as it already is indoors for an 800m specialist.

Brazier is a top 6 US 400m runner if he focused on the event. You don’t float through an 800 at 49-50 without having 45s 400 capabilities (when peaking and training for 400)

his positivity is good? probably wrote:

Brazier is a top 6 US 400m runner if he focused on the event. You don’t float through an 800 at 49-50 without having 45s 400 capabilities (when peaking and training for 400)

14 runners under 45 last year. top 6 was 44.31.

there is zero proof of brazier being faster than amos, who popped a 44.99 FAT last year, in top 800 shape, iirc.

macdaddy wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

He would be lucky to run sub-46 FAT.

What an unintelligent post.

So you can point to where he has done it?

his positivity is good? probably wrote:

Brazier is a top 6 US 400m runner if he focused on the event. You don’t float through an 800 at 49-50 without having 45s 400 capabilities (when peaking and training for 400)

Wilson Kipketer ran 48x en route to one of his 800 records. His best time over the 800 of 1.41.11 is still considerably faster than Brazier's best. Yet his best 400 time was in the same territory of 46.85. A great 2-lap runner does not have to be a great 1 lap exponent - and rarely is.

A fast 400m runner - sub 45 - would necessarily have to be quick over 200m. Juantorena could do 20.7. Is Brazier a sub-21 runner over 200? If he isn't, I can't see him getting below 45s.

kjl wrote:

Do you not realize he's gone 46-sec FAT indoors!? He also ran on a 3:07 relay which he split low 45s at A&M. What's with the hate? This guy is the world champion and could have been a threat in the open 400m like Juantorena.

https://www.worldathletics.org/athletes/united-states/donavan-brazier-14603138

There is no hate here for Brazier; he is a great 800m runner. But I have yet to see the evidence that he could run at a top level for the 400m - which is a sprinter's event, not middle distance.

Juantorena was a 20.7 runner over 200m, which is exceptionally fast for a 2-lap runner. Unless Brazier can get near that I doubt he would be capable of sub-45. At this stage, his 46.9FAT is miles away from that. But as I said above, it puts him in the same region as the great Kipketer over that distance.

1.15.07 for the 600 today. So what does that equate to for a 400?

Donovan can probably run around 21.3-21.4 for 200m, potentially faster. This is exactly like when people said that Michael Norman couldn't break 10 seconds in the 100, despite the fact that he ran a 10.27 into a headwind in high school and has one of the most exceptional starts in the world. Sometimes you just have to read between the lines - extrapolate, infer, do whatever - and realize that it's really dumb to equate someone's past performances (especially if it was 4-5 years ago) to their current ability. Brazier is a MF savage who is real quick over 400m.

Armstronglivs wrote:

1.15.07 for the 600 today. So what does that equate to for a 400?

it equates to him being almost a second and a half slower than he was for indoor nationals this year.