Wilson Kipsang banned for 4 years

Friends are now starting to talk to the media about Kipsang's struggles with the bottle. Mentioned elsewhere that he would sometimes go for days without making it home.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/africa/53321798

He says he's retiring.

https://www.capitalfm.co.ke/sports/2020/07/06/kipsang-squares-blame-on-athletics-kenya-adak-after-doping-ban/

El Keniano wrote:

He says he's retiring.

Yes. And blames ADAk for his lies, not the booze.

Also interesting, rekrunner:

The 37-year old who won bronze at the 2012 London Olympics becomes the 53rd Kenyan to be banned by the AIU over a doping violation and becomes yet another elite list among Rita Jeptoo, Jemimah Sumgong and Asbel Kiprop.

Told you. LOL.

casual obsever wrote:

Yes. And blames ADAk for his lies, not the booze.

.

What he says in his current state

^ ... is irrelevant

casual obsever wrote:

Also interesting, rekrunner:

The 37-year old who won bronze at the 2012 London Olympics becomes the 53rd Kenyan to be banned by the AIU over a doping violation and becomes yet another elite list among Rita Jeptoo, Jemimah Sumgong and Asbel Kiprop.

Told you. LOL.

It's a common mistake.

Understandably, these bans hit professional athletes really hard. First it was Kiprop, who had an affair with a married woman -remember that weird video of her grinding on Kiprop? Now it's Kipsang, who is turning to the bottle. Hope these guys can find something more wholesome to cope with.

I have heard from a few Kenyans that extortion should be expected because corruption is the way of life in Kenya.

Renato Canova said that EPO doesn't work on East Africans.

So, he stopped saying that when many of his East African athletes were caught taking EPO.

EPO positives went up, when the testing specifically for EPO increased. Sounds about right.

Kipsang was caught missing tests, which some are speaking to his partying ways. Okay, but "tampering" as alleged means he is hiding something.

Living a life of luxury, suggests exactly what I am referring to. Get rich (by Kenyan means) and don't care after that.

There are plenty of honest and good Kenyans, but there are plenty of reasons to do whatever you have to do to make a lot of money. ElK-guy needs to stop defending his fellow countryman and women who are getting caught. Plenty of them simply cheat and there is nothing more to it than that.

With THE MOST (at 50+) banned athletes (save for Russia with their blanked ban) Kenya is in deep trouble. They, Turkey, Morocco and Ethiopia all need to have thorough testing and have repercussions from doping that are bigger than the rewards for competing.

1. Stop inviting Kenyans to marathons so that they have no reason to cheat, with no competition.

2. Should they compete, withhold all money for one year (except for a reasonable deposit for travel and base living -- so if the winning is $100,000USD, give them 10%).

3. First positive test where the A&B sample are positive for EPO or HGH or Steroids, ban for life.

4. Missed whereabouts test: 4, years, then ban for life

5. No travel without out-of-competition blood and urine tests and A& B samples for both are negative.

6. No plastic Kenyans.

The Kiwis were training as the Kenyan train a decade before. They didn't event the training. But they are tough as nails because they are typically dirt poor.

^ Wrong on every point.

A lot of good points.

They should use the current pandemic as a reason to make marathons for home runners only. i.e Boston marathon only for Americans, Berlin marathon for Europeans. Then let the best in the world compete with each other at the Olympics and World Champiknships.

I hope the criminalization of doping in Kenya (finally) will make a difference.

As far as Kipsang is concerned, I don't have much sympathy for alcoholics. They're really just cowards. I also wonder if it's simply part of his fake defence, just as the submitting of fake photos as evidence was.

Getting drunk before your big interview on national TV to declare your innocence. And the way the reporter physically turns Kipsang to the camera (which he doesn't object to). All a bit contrived.

Yes. The man orchestrated his own spiral to cover up his guilt. Seriously, I never thought to ask because I've never cared, but at what year of school did you decide that secondary education just isn't for you?

https://twitter.com/ChrisChavez/status/1280577642664787969?s=20

Coevett, why do you want to speak, every time, about something you don't know ?

To think that Wilson wanted to do the interview drunk for defending himself is something incredible, and doesn't support the idea you have a normal brain.

Who, like me, stays in Kenya for long time every year, unfortunately well knew his situation, becoming worse during the last 3 years.

I, like you, don't have sympathy for alcoholists, but I try to understand the ambience where they live, and the reasons because they start to drink. Before judging, you need to know the local reality, that is very much different from your reality : Africa is not England, and the reasons at the base of every behavior are different.

About the proposal of Wet Coast, apart the fact that Renato Canova NEVER said EPO doesn't work on East Africans, but ALWAYS said EPO doesn't produce any advantage WITH ATHLETES TRAINING IN ALTITUDE WITH PROPER TRAINING (where "proper" means right volume and right intensity, so "proper" is not exactly what the scientists studying doping, or the LR posters, think) ; and apart the fact that, in the 120 cases at the moment open, only 9 are for EPO, while 73 are for steroids ; I want to comment the various points.

1. When the big marathons start again, one of the interests of organizers is to have at the start the bests, in order to produce the best "technical show" possible. Therefore, the idea to not invite the best is something AGAINST the success of the race, and NEVER can happen.

2. I agree, and already years ago I wrote a similar proposal. Since never is possible to have back the money won by a positive athlete, because in the most part of cases (not only African) a banned athlete for the penal law is not guilty since this kind of cheating doesn't produce any penal sanction, the only way for protecting the organizers and the clean athletes is to wait not only the result of the tests after the competition, but also the result of the last OOC tests.

In this case, antidoping needs to be faster when goes to analyse the tests : for all the athletes already in the whereabouts, having data enough for the Biological Passport, WADA can ask to accelerate the tests, for athletes already showing some suspicious fluctuation, so there is the guarantee that the performance can be clean.

3. This was already a proposal, rejected because always who is guilty must have a second chance.

4. Missed whereabouts : we need to have more uniformity and equal protection, in different Federations and Countries. I continue to see US athletes failing their whereabouts, who are sanctioned with a warning only, because USATF accepts their explanations, while the same doesn't happen in Kenya, for example (and can be very much more frequent the possibility that an athlete can't be in the place and at the time written in his whereabouts in Kenya than in US or in Europe, looking at all the casuality there are in Africa and at the fact that normally Kenyan athletes don't fill their whereabouts personally, but everything is organaised by the manager).

Not always to miss a test means the athlete wants to escape because doped, so there is difference between a missed test in a training camp (in this case, the athletes fear the test) and a missed test at home, when sometimes you are not there for sudden problems. I had athletes disappearing for 3 days because some problem of the family in the village, without informing because in the village they had no network, and they were lucky because the official of antidoping didn't come for testing them during these days ; but, if the antidoping arrived, they had a missed test without being guilty.

5. This is ok, but already happens for all the bests. The current rule is that athletes can't compete in Championships or in a Major Marathon if already don't have, during the season, at least 3 test OOC. The problem is for athletes of medium level, who can't be tested OOC in Kenya (at the moment, there are 135 Kenyan athletes in the international whereabouts, but the number of Kenyan running abroad and winning marathons of second and third level is about 500, so the most part can be tested in competition only, and go to compete without any previous test. But this is not a problem, if we can make the point 2 effective.

6. I don't understand what "no plastic Kenyans" means.

I continue to be dissappointed with the level of disinformation coming from you. It seems like you should know better.

This is highly misleading. What Renato said is much more nuanced.

EPO positives are still low, compared to steroid positives.

And the opposite happened -- after Sondre Moen's sub-2:06 performance, Renato expanded the athletes to include non-Africans.

Looks like alcohol was not the living the life of luxury, but a result of depression due to the negative things happening in his life (conflict with AK, did not become MP, ...)

Kenya has the most endurance athletes. It would be better to look at doping rates per athlete capita.

El Keniano wrote:

^ Wrong on every point.

+1

rekrunner wrote:

It's a common mistake.

No, it's a logical, obvious, common abbreviation to say "doping violation" instead of the cumbersome "anti-doping rule violation". A mistake would be to call it "administrative failure".

casual obsever wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

It's a common mistake.

No, it's a logical, obvious, common abbreviation to say "doping violation" instead of the cumbersome "anti-doping rule violation". A mistake would be to call it "administrative failure".

No question that it is common.

I disagree that it is logical or obvious to refer to a "filing failure" as a "doping violation", or a mistake to describe a "filing failure" as an "administrative failure".

Even shorter, and more accurate, than "doping violation" is "rule violation".

The problem with calling it a "doping violation" is that it is a rule violation that does not involve or require doping. It is more accurately an "anti-doping violation" (a more accurate abbreviation of ADRV), or a "non-doping violation" (my more accurate expression to highlight the lack of involvement of doping in this violation).

One might be more likely to conclude Kipsang doped, when it is called a "doping violation". Nothing about the facts in the case of Kipsang makes that possibility more likely.

It is misleading, if not dishonest.

Renato Canova wrote:

Who, like me, stays in Kenya for long time every year, unfortunately well knew his situation, becoming worse during the last 3 years.

I, like you, don't have sympathy for alcoholists, but I try to understand the ambience where they live, and the reasons because they start to drink. Before judging, you need to know the local reality, that is very much different from your reality : Africa is not England, and the reasons at the base of every behavior are different..

I think blaming and stigmatising alcoholics is a big of the problem. People need to understand it’s a disease, not a choice.

Yes, everywhere in thw World there are psychological reasons for taking alcohol or drug.

People with some problem (and I don't speak of money, but problems of love, respect, pain, sufference for the loss of somebody they loved, etc...) frequently start to take drugs or to drink alcohol with one goal only : TO FORGET.

Several athletes, or top sportsmen and sportswomen, or actors, or singers, or businessmen, who don't have any problem of money, can fall in depression due to a lot of different reasons.

I want to judge only who WANTS to be guilty of something, not who doesn't have, for a short period of sufference, the strength for going outside of his current situation with his own strength only.

Human beings need to feel the drive to solidarity, not to kill other people for becoming richer, and to judge without knowing all the story is something bringing to wrong conclusions.

Renato,

You are a knowledgable coach, no doubt about that. But really? You refer to yourself as "Coaching Legend"? Come on.

Why did you leave Kenya shortly after the former president of Athletics Kenya demanded all non-accredited foreign coaches must leave the country within one week? Do you remember that?

You went to China.

How is your coaching going in China? You are still there, yes?