An Interesting Proposal To Save The Fall XC Season: Implement Interval Starts

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rojo

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2 weeks ago 06/25/2020 3:37pm CDT

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This is a pretty interesting idea that comes from guest contributor JD Downing.

https://www.letsrun.com/news/2020/06/the-case-for-interval-starts-as-an-emergency-option-for-fall-2020-xc-racing/

PS. One bonus of the plan not mentioned in the article is that it would end the snooze-fest starts we've seen in recent years at the start of so many big xc meets where the big stars jog around for like half the race before getting after it.
carFKT

2 weeks ago 06/25/2020 3:40pm CDT
re: rojo

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And the CIF meets would start at 4 p.m. Friday and the last runner departing at 5 a.m. Monday.
Hydroxychloroquine

2 weeks ago 06/25/2020 4:00pm CDT
re: rojo

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It would be interesting in the sense that everyone is running to achieve the faster possible time, and placement is effectively irrelevant.

What about things like masks?

Is drafting allowed, or would it be similar to no draft rules in triathlon?

Not entirely sure how the seeding time works. How is that determined?
different race experience

2 weeks ago 06/25/2020 4:01pm CDT
re: rojo

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rojo wrote:
This is a pretty interesting idea that comes from guest contributor JD Downing.

https://www.letsrun.com/news/2020/06/the-case-for-interval-starts-as-an-emergency-option-for-fall-2020-xc-racing/

PS. One bonus of the plan not mentioned in the article is that it would end the snooze-fest starts we've seen in recent years at the start of so many big xc meets where the big stars jog around for like half the race before getting after it.

Your are right, I think, about how it would change the mindset of all competitors, especially the top ones. They have no real idea of how they are doing in the course of the race relative to other competitors (some of whom might be starting after you). They have to assume they need to run their best race, so athletes can really gas themselves.

In nordic skiing with timed starts, like with downhill racing, the racers with the top three times typically stay at the finish, so you have a certain drama as newer times come in, and a racer drops down a place or off the podium.
FLupda

2 weeks ago 06/25/2020 4:19pm CDT
re: rojo

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A better idea would be to have each team run together on the course at staggered intervals. They all train together anyways. It would be a great team sport.
Gentleman Savage

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2 weeks ago 06/25/2020 4:24pm CDT
re: rojo

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That's against the entire heart and soul of cross country. Not interesting, but then you didn't run xc in college.

Ho Hum

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2 weeks ago 06/25/2020 4:28pm CDT
re: different race experience

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I like the suggestion of doing seeded interval starts. It seems like that would keep the race competitive without any crowding issues. You'd have to keep people honest with their seedings, but that seems pretty easy to solve.
Mishmash

2 weeks ago 06/25/2020 4:29pm CDT
re: rojo

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Well a friend of mine who currently has zero involvement with the sport mentioned this idea a couple days ago so it is obviously something people have discussed before. They do it in some bicycle and ski racing as I understand it.
FFF

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2 weeks ago 06/25/2020 4:30pm CDT
re: Ho Hum

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I think the better move is to realize now that schooling will be remote in the fall, and that literally nothing else will happen.
Bullet the Blue Sky

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2 weeks ago 06/25/2020 4:51pm CDT
re: rojo

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I wonder what the author's take on simple dual meets would be. I was thinking about the idea of starting runners in pairs where each coach picks the order for his/her team. My #1 runner starts against your #1 runner and so on down the line.
907 born

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2 weeks ago 06/25/2020 5:24pm CDT
re: rojo

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I think J.D. left this out of his bio: Happily participated as the coach for these two Olympic grifters, then later strenuously defended himself by saying that he hadn't broken any rules (which may literally be a true statement).

https://blogs.fasterskier.com/insidetrack/2014/02/28/the-olympic-dream-and-dominican-citizenship-for-the-low-low-price-of-us175000/

https://deadspin.com/dominicas-fake-ski-team-scammed-the-olympics-and-the-p-1529973935
kingojamin

2 weeks ago 06/25/2020 7:30pm CDT
re: rojo

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I think it would be interesting to see. Knowing how to pace oneself could be hard (but Katelyn Tuohy has prepared for this style of racing her whole HS career). Now to do this for a big city marathon with maybe 500 starters going off over a two hour period.

Seyta

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2 weeks ago 06/25/2020 7:35pm CDT
re: Gentleman Savage

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Gentleman Savage wrote:
That's against the entire heart and soul of cross country. Not interesting, but then you didn't run xc in college.

Cross Country is so unpopular that it's combined as a sport with track (despite all sprinters and field athletes having nothing to do with cross country), it's virtually non-existent professionally, and most countries don't even bother with World XC.

Obviously the heart and soul is garbage.

At a high school level, it's sustained only because there are no cuts, most kids need to add some sort of extracurricular to their college applications, and girls want to stay skinny.
youdontgetit

2 weeks ago 06/25/2020 9:43pm CDT
re: Seyta

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Spoken like a crusty, sad human who took all of the wrongs things out of running. The experiences with your teammates are infinitely better than any individual success in track imo.
Kvothe

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2 weeks ago 06/25/2020 9:59pm CDT
re: Seyta

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Seyta wrote:

Gentleman Savage wrote:
That's against the entire heart and soul of cross country. Not interesting, but then you didn't run xc in college.

Cross Country is so unpopular that it's combined as a sport with track (despite all sprinters and field athletes having nothing to do with cross country), it's virtually non-existent professionally, and most countries don't even bother with World XC.

Obviously the heart and soul is garbage.

At a high school level, it's sustained only because there are no cuts, most kids need to add some sort of extracurricular to their college applications, and girls want to stay skinny.

Cross country is only "unpopular" as a spectator sport, but if it were on prime time tv people would watch it and it would become popular.

The athletes competing in xc love the sport. Football would be unpopular too if you could only find it on big ten network at 2 pm or behind paywalls.
DontFeedTheTroll

2 weeks ago 06/25/2020 10:07pm CDT
re: rojo

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I'd love to see this. I don't know if it would fundamentally change the character of the race, but if it did then we shouldn't assume that it would be worse. It's obviously a very different challenge for the athletes.

I'd love to see this for road races as well. Perhaps some 10K could do this for the elite runners. Why not?
Indoor?

2 weeks ago 06/25/2020 10:26pm CDT
re: DontFeedTheTroll

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The NFHS has suggested this for HS and it is likely what we are looking at for the fall at that level.
Wyco Loco

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2 weeks ago 06/25/2020 10:40pm CDT
re: rojo

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You could run a relay (ekiden) format. That would reduce the field to 1/7th the size, but could create some good excitement for the team placings and each team can order their team however they want.
let your mind run

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2 weeks ago 06/25/2020 11:30pm CDT
re: FLupda

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FLupda wrote:
A better idea would be to have each team run together on the course at staggered intervals. They all train together anyways. It would be a great team sport.

Agreed. It would make it more of a team sport and give every runner a group to start out with, rather than an individual start.
ran and skied in college

2 weeks ago 06/25/2020 11:36pm CDT
re: rojo

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This is a common format in Nordic skiing. It is actually a pretty natural way to run a race. After a couple meets everyone not familiar will see it’s a good format. If you are starting every 15 seconds you can get 240 kids off in a hour. It will still have some of the feel of head to head as you are always chasing someone or being chased. Especially if runners are seeded fastest to slowest. It will probably result in faster times as there is no incentive to sit and kick. It certainly would be much better than canceling the season.

Several years ago Ironman went to rolling swim starts from mass starts. Everyone at the pointy end thought it was the end of the world, but it turned out to be a good format. The same will be true with xc if they go this route.