More like setting the ceiling for Easy.
Far too often athletes run faster than easy for a myriad of reasons. If you put a cap on easy, then you can ensure that they’re truly easy. No?
More like setting the ceiling for Easy.
Far too often athletes run faster than easy for a myriad of reasons. If you put a cap on easy, then you can ensure that they’re truly easy. No?
Givetallugot wrote:
Can anyone shed light on what Jack Daniels would say? I know in his vdot tables he prescribes a range for easy pace. What would he say if you ran slower than that range? Would he say you’re not getting the same physiological benefits? I also remember him saying that running too slow could lead to bad form which impacts running economy.
I also think Lydiard said similar. Personally, and which I think is the correct answer, is that I don't think what pace your going at is relevant at all, its the effort that's important. Easy / 'junk' miles are extremely important, but they are an effort level not any given pace. Some days you might go 4mins over 5k pace, some days 90s. Some days you might start slow and finish fast.
MiLeAgE dOeSn'T wOrK fOr Me I rAn 70 mPw at 7:00 PaCe AnD dIdN't PR iMmEdIaTeLy
Staying off the caps lock might.
ExPhys wrote:
More like setting the ceiling for Easy.
Far too often athletes run faster than easy for a myriad of reasons. If you put a cap on easy, then you can ensure that they’re truly easy. No?
What if the cap you put on easy ends up feeling hard?
HRE wrote:
ExPhys wrote:
More like setting the ceiling for Easy.
Far too often athletes run faster than easy for a myriad of reasons. If you put a cap on easy, then you can ensure that they’re truly easy. No?
What if the cap you put on easy ends up feeling hard?
It just dawned on me that you mean the cap as a pace you won't run faster than rather than one you won't run slower than? That's going to limit you on days when you feel good.
But limit in what sense. It seems like it would be infinitely better to run too slow than too fast. Judging by “effort” is tricky since most athletes will have their egos override their actual physiology.
You also get caught in that mildly fast zone which feels easy but physiologically isn’t easy or helping one to recover.
Your heartrate will tell you what best individual easy pace to run. If you follow this and not run by feel you will reach your optimum aerobic capacity on just singles!
- Your head coach-
Well we know that to not be true.
Time of day, hydration, cortisol levels all have an impact on heart rate. That makes it a near impossible tool to use for training accurately.
YOU ARE TOTALLY WRONG! bUT i DON`T BLAME YOU, YOU ARE NOT ALONE IN YOUR THINKING!
You're funny. It's not wrong....
But I appreciate your confidence with the use of capital letters lol.
SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:
YOU ARE TOTALLY WRONG! bUT i DON`T BLAME YOU, YOU ARE NOT ALONE IN YOUR THINKING!
Let me know if you'd like to read some literature on the subject of cardiovascular physiology
ExPhys wrote:
Time of day, hydration, cortisol levels all have an impact on heart rate.
That is undeniable. But if a runner is experiencing a higher hr because of these factors (and others), why would the intensity not also increase (for same pace). The later miles in a long run always feel more intense than the early miles, although pace may be identical.
Not arguing, just genuinely curious.
Alfie wrote:
ExPhys wrote:
Time of day, hydration, cortisol levels all have an impact on heart rate.
That is undeniable. But if a runner is experiencing a higher hr because of these factors (and others), why would the intensity not also increase (for same pace). The later miles in a long run always feel more intense than the early miles, although pace may be identical.
Not arguing, just genuinely curious.
Great question. Hopefully this helps.
A phenomenon known as cardiovascular drift. As time goes on during exercise, your HR will slowly get higher as more blood is shunted to the extremities to maintain safe and stable core temperatures. So even if your pace remains the same, your HR (and also to a degree) the intensity of the run.
HR to a degree is genetic. I've had athletes who run at 65% of their vVO2 and have HR's that would typically be seen for someone running in the 80-84% vVO2 range. That's the biggest risk of training ONLY using HR as a measurement. It's a good gauge for sure, but should only be used as a part of the equation.
ExPhys wrote:
But limit in what sense. It seems like it would be infinitely better to run too slow than too fast. Judging by “effort” is tricky since most athletes will have their egos override their actual physiology.
You also get caught in that mildly fast zone which feels easy but physiologically isn’t easy or helping one to recover.
You're still training on an easy day so you'd get a little more training affect if you're going a little faster. Yes, better too slow than too fast but Snell told me that as long as you are able to do your next day's run normally you're fine. There's no need to run wither artificially slow or artificially fast.
HRE wrote:
ExPhys wrote:
But limit in what sense. It seems like it would be infinitely better to run too slow than too fast. Judging by “effort” is tricky since most athletes will have their egos override their actual physiology.
You also get caught in that mildly fast zone which feels easy but physiologically isn’t easy or helping one to recover.
You're still training on an easy day so you'd get a little more training affect if you're going a little faster. Yes, better too slow than too fast but Snell told me that as long as you are able to do your next day's run normally you're fine. There's no need to run wither artificially slow or artificially fast.
I think the fear becomes a long-term issue.
Athlete A: runs their "easy days" @ 70% and below
Athlete B: runs their "easy days" @ 70-80%
Both runs feel easy to the athletes but the long term effects of Athlete B's easy runs will eventually catch up to them I would think.
Thanks ExPhys. This is an area that I'm interested in. I am at an age where I actually have to recover from my easy runs as well as the harder ones, so intensity is a driving issue.
If I want to keep my intensity to say 75% of max hr. I go for a 2 hr long run at this intensity, but after say 90mins or so cardiac drift raises my hr. If I keep to same pace, and am now running, say 5/10 beats higher for the remainder, does the physiology say that I shouldn't feel any more tired than if I had slowed down to offset cardiac drift?
I would not think that because if something feels easy it's likely to be easy because easy is a feeling and not a number. If you're dragging on succeeding days then maybe it wasn't as easy as you'd thought.
Alfie wrote:
Thanks ExPhys. This is an area that I'm interested in. I am at an age where I actually have to recover from my easy runs as well as the harder ones, so intensity is a driving issue.
If I want to keep my intensity to say 75% of max hr. I go for a 2 hr long run at this intensity, but after say 90mins or so cardiac drift raises my hr. If I keep to same pace, and am now running, say 5/10 beats higher for the remainder, does the physiology say that I shouldn't feel any more tired than if I had slowed down to offset cardiac drift?
CV drift definitely plays more of a role the older we get. If you want the AVERAGE of your 2-hour long run to be @ 75%, then it's better to start lower than that as your HR will increase with time. If you don't want to go over 75% of max hr then you should start even lower at the beginning of your run.
I get your point. Rather than slowing down to compensate for CV drift at the end of your long run, it's better to start slower at the beginning. Hope that helped somewhat.
HRE wrote:
I would not think that because if something feels easy it's likely to be easy because easy is a feeling and not a number. If you're dragging on succeeding days then maybe it wasn't as easy as you'd thought.
That's the issue. That grey zone. Where it physically "feels" easy but in actuality, it's not "easy".
It's better to err on the side of too easy on your easy runs than pushing the pace. You're not going to lose any fitness along the way.