Let's don't overcomplicate this. The easy way to get back to big city marathons is this...... Test everyone before the race.

What about spectators for a big city marathon like NYC? Will you test all of them beforehand as well?

Test them in what timeframe? Most testing places take 1-7 days to process tests. If you leave enough time for processing, how do you ensure that people don't get it while traveling, or in the days leading up to the race? The test also has a 15-30% false negative rate, perhaps on the higher for the Abbott fast test, which could potentially miss a lot of cases in a field of 20K+. Just look at the white house--they test constantly and they are still missing cases. Who pays for this testing? Does it get rolled into the race fee? Are entrants responsible for paying for their own testing? If so you run into the delays in processing that depend on state, company, and whether it goes through insurance or not.

In South Korea, they opened up the night clubs and a single asymptomatic 29 year seeded outbreak of at least 133 people in a country where community spread had been thought to be eliminated. Between everyone he encountered at the night club and all their contacts, over 35K people have needed to be tested, and that is an underestimate.

At this point, I don't think the testing is there. There are stories right now of all the cruise line personnel still stuck on ships because one day they test positive, the next negative, and it goes on and on. One person tested the opposite 8 times in a row using DIFFERENT tests.

That is a big fail on testing.

Sometimes great minds think alike

https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=10020491

A number no one mentions when it comes to races is the number of volunteers. A quick google search told me New York has about 10,000 volunteers. That's in addition to 50,000 runners and maybe 3 million spectators, another google search.

No way any city or state sees holding a marathon as important or more important than the health and safety of the entire population

Can't get past "Let's don't"...

I'd say if you use 7 paragraphs to justify your point, then you overcomplicated it.

Simplest way to run the Boston Marathon? Hold the race. If a person feels safe, then show up and run the race. If the person doesn't, then don't show up. Done.

Let’s don’t oversimplify this. The risks associated with big city marathons go far beyond spreading the virus among race participants. What really dangerous is the world traveling of tens thousands of people around the globe within a short period of time, which will create unnecessary threats to the public health. In addition, the spectators and tourists brought by the races will make things ten times worse. People can live without marathons. If sports stop for a while, people survive; if people die, no sport exists.

Imagine testing on a scale that everyone/anyone who wants testing can get it either free or affordably whenever they want one? And an army of tracers to track down contacts when someone test positive? What a novel idea!

A Harvard University study last month put forward the argument that the USA needs to ramp up testing/tracing capacity at an exponential level -- like up to 20,000,000/day by fall. We all know will never happen - not even close. But as a kind of thought experiment, you might imagine a testing infrastructure that could enable that scale of on-demand testing.

It wouldn't just be a major race that would have people show evidence of recent testing. It could be employees taking a test before traveling, students going to school, fans going to games. In that larger context where such large scale testing capacities are readily available and used, I think it would enable big races to happen.

Of course, we don't have the capacity to develop that level of testing, but it is a nice thought.

Let's assume it's economically and otherwise feasible to perform a viral Covid-19 test on thousands (or tens of thousands) of race participants.

And to also test race support staff.

What about spectators? Test them, too, if they want admittance on 26-mile closed course?

Asuming total accuracy, you've now managed to take a snapshot of participants' measured infection status during a testing window leading up to the race.

But there's always a chance some will contract Covid-19 after being tested. This is acceptable risk?

sloinnorcal wrote:

I'd say if you use 7 paragraphs to justify your point, then you overcomplicated it.

Simplest way to run the Boston Marathon? Hold the race. If a person feels safe, then show up and run the race. If the person doesn't, then don't show up. Done.

Bro, you can’t honesty think that’s an option.

When you’re in the corral or porter potty line or behind 1,000 of runners breathing deeply, you’re a sitting duck.

There’s a lot to be determined, as these are unique times, but transmission of the virus (even if you don’t know you have it) can be seen as a crime. Expand that to an organization hosting this event... no one (insurance, sponsors, city, etc.) is taking on that liability.

Maybe he was just thinking about TMBG?

https://youtu.be/VJQnZZ-Wmao

Another interesting read...

Sounds like no pandemic waiver exists at this point in time. Any organization would have to draft one, have their state verify it, and then cross their fingers.

Who’s going to jump first? It wouldn’t be me.

https://www.bclplaw.com/en-US/insights/liability-waivers-related-to-covid-19-in-the-united-states.html

Another great idea of letsrun genius rojo.

Let's do this.

Of course all the New Yorkers have to be tested too. Since we don't know who will watch the race we better test all of them. Of course they have to pay $50 to 100 as well like the runners.

This will be another win win situation.

NYRRC will make a fortune with testing and then we know if New Yorkers are Covid 19 free or not.

kingojamin wrote:

What about spectators for a big city marathon like NYC? Will you test all of them beforehand as well?

No. Do we test all of the grocery store workers or people shopping in a grocery store? This isn't zero risk. It's common sense. In 3-5 months, we should have plenty of testing capability.

For spectators, volunteers, etc, just have them social distance and wear masks like we do every where else in society.

Plus I'd be fine with banning spectators.

PS. Are you the WMM race employee that has been texting Jon. He or she was making the same argument which I don't fall for. We don't test everyone before they go into Trader Joe's. Social distance + wear a mask and have a ton of hand sanitizer on hand.

Larger context: You'll see Madison Square Arena and Yankee Stadium open before you'll see the city sign off on the New York Marathon.

So let's say your marathon brings 30,000 people to town. Say 300 of them (or 100, whatever) test positive. Problem is: they're already in town. They've potentially flown on airplanes, stayed in hotels or AirBNBs for a few days, shared the air / bathrooms (and touched the surfaces) inside the packet pick-up area with who knows how many other people. OK, so those people don't get to run the race - but that's not your big problem. How many people did they come into contact with and possibly spread the virus to? The runner goes home - but your marathon just brought the virus to your city, where it will linger and spread. Your hospital workers will be affected, your city may have to take partial shut-down steps as a "mini wave" presents itself, meaning economic damage could occur again.

rojo wrote:

kingojamin wrote:

What about spectators for a big city marathon like NYC? Will you test all of them beforehand as well?

No. Do we test all of the grocery store workers or people shopping in a grocery store? This isn't zero risk. It's common sense. In 3-5 months, we should have plenty of testing capability.

For spectators, volunteers, etc, just have them social distance and wear masks like we do every where else in society.

Plus I'd be fine with banning spectators.

PS. Are you the WMM race employee that has been texting Jon. He or she was making the same argument which I don't fall for. We don't test everyone before they go into Trader Joe's. Social distance + wear a mask and have a ton of hand sanitizer on hand.

It's not that simple. Joe Athlete flies in from EU, or Africa they pick up the bug on the plane. It doesn't yet show up on the test, but they are positive. (this happens, do your f*cking research), then they infect everyone.

Wince and repeat.