The official (and only) Ahmaud Arbery thread

coyote22 wrote:

I am a prosecutor (not in GA) and I have a few thoughts. These are just my observations. I don’t like to make a firm opinion without all of the facts, which none of us have.

1. I firmly believe he was casing the joint. He may not have stolen in broad daylight but if there were items of value such as tools, copper piping, etc., he could come back later. There is also other video now surfacing of him there at other times. I do not personally believe he was just checking out the layout. (Also, it is amazing how many people are coming out of the woodwork saying they wander into unfinished homes to check them out.)

2. He was not out for a jog. He walks up to the home. (Someone on Reddit actually suggested that he might be doing Couch 2 5K and was on a walk break, they are so desperate to continue the jogger-martyr narrative.) He only “jogs” when he realized a neighbor across the street is watching him.

3. Statements say the McMichaels were outside. The legality of the citizens arrest is going to hinge on two things. One: exactly how they knew he was there. I think I’ve read they saw him running; other things I’ve read say a neighbor told him, and I don’t think information from another person green lights a citizens arrest. Two: the definition of this “construction site.” Yes you can see the garage door is open but that doesn’t necessarily make it an “open” site under the law. It is a fully formed house from the outside and COULD be considered a “dwelling,” which could make the burglary statute applicable. There is probably a body of GA case law that will further define “dwelling.” If a court or jury determines it’s a dwelling then a citizens arrest could be lawful.

4. Whether Travis actually pointed the gun at Arbery or was just holding it. Open carry is legal here. Travis was perfectly within his right to display it. If it is determined Arbery physically attacked Travis and the gun was not pointed at him Travis has a right to self defense. If Travis pointed the gun at Arbery, Arbery has a right to self defense. The person holding the right to self defense can even change as a fight progresses. That I think is going to be the toughest issue here.

I don’t see a murder conviction or a life sentence here. I think there’s too much reasonable doubt for the gravity of the punishment and a jury will give them a lesser charge like manslaughter. I think they will find the McMichaels misinterpreted some aspect of the law - burglary, the citizens arrest law, the law of self defense. Just my opinion.

coyote22 wrote:

I am a prosecutor (not in GA) and I have a few thoughts. These are just my observations. I don’t like to make a firm opinion without all of the facts, which none of us have.

1. I firmly believe he was casing the joint. He may not have stolen in broad daylight but if there were items of value such as tools, copper piping, etc., he could come back later. There is also other video now surfacing of him there at other times. I do not personally believe he was just checking out the layout. (Also, it is amazing how many people are coming out of the woodwork saying they wander into unfinished homes to check them out.)

2. He was not out for a jog. He walks up to the home. (Someone on Reddit actually suggested that he might be doing Couch 2 5K and was on a walk break, they are so desperate to continue the jogger-martyr narrative.) He only “jogs” when he realized a neighbor across the street is watching him.

3. Statements say the McMichaels were outside. The legality of the citizens arrest is going to hinge on two things. One: exactly how they knew he was there. I think I’ve read they saw him running; other things I’ve read say a neighbor told him, and I don’t think information from another person green lights a citizens arrest. Two: the definition of this “construction site.” Yes you can see the garage door is open but that doesn’t necessarily make it an “open” site under the law. It is a fully formed house from the outside and COULD be considered a “dwelling,” which could make the burglary statute applicable. There is probably a body of GA case law that will further define “dwelling.” If a court or jury determines it’s a dwelling then a citizens arrest could be lawful.

4. Whether Travis actually pointed the gun at Arbery or was just holding it. Open carry is legal here. Travis was perfectly within his right to display it. If it is determined Arbery physically attacked Travis and the gun was not pointed at him Travis has a right to self defense. If Travis pointed the gun at Arbery, Arbery has a right to self defense. The person holding the right to self defense can even change as a fight progresses. That I think is going to be the toughest issue here.

I don’t see a murder conviction or a life sentence here. I think there’s too much reasonable doubt for the gravity of the punishment and a jury will give them a lesser charge like manslaughter. I think they will find the McMichaels misinterpreted some aspect of the law - burglary, the citizens arrest law, the law of self defense. Just my opinion.

coyote22 wrote:

I am a prosecutor (not in GA) and I have a few thoughts. These are just my observations. I don’t like to make a firm opinion without all of the facts, which none of us have.

1. I firmly believe he was casing the joint. He may not have stolen in broad daylight but if there were items of value such as tools, copper piping, etc., he could come back later. There is also other video now surfacing of him there at other times. I do not personally believe he was just checking out the layout. (Also, it is amazing how many people are coming out of the woodwork saying they wander into unfinished homes to check them out.)

2. He was not out for a jog. He walks up to the home. (Someone on Reddit actually suggested that he might be doing Couch 2 5K and was on a walk break, they are so desperate to continue the jogger-martyr narrative.) He only “jogs” when he realized a neighbor across the street is watching him.

3. Statements say the McMichaels were outside. The legality of the citizens arrest is going to hinge on two things. One: exactly how they knew he was there. I think I’ve read they saw him running; other things I’ve read say a neighbor told him, and I don’t think information from another person green lights a citizens arrest. Two: the definition of this “construction site.” Yes you can see the garage door is open but that doesn’t necessarily make it an “open” site under the law. It is a fully formed house from the outside and COULD be considered a “dwelling,” which could make the burglary statute applicable. There is probably a body of GA case law that will further define “dwelling.” If a court or jury determines it’s a dwelling then a citizens arrest could be lawful.

4. Whether Travis actually pointed the gun at Arbery or was just holding it. Open carry is legal here. Travis was perfectly within his right to display it. If it is determined Arbery physically attacked Travis and the gun was not pointed at him Travis has a right to self defense. If Travis pointed the gun at Arbery, Arbery has a right to self defense. The person holding the right to self defense can even change as a fight progresses. That I think is going to be the toughest issue here.

I don’t see a murder conviction or a life sentence here. I think there’s too much reasonable doubt for the gravity of the punishment and a jury will give them a lesser charge like manslaughter. I think they will find the McMichaels misinterpreted some aspect of the law - burglary, the citizens arrest law, the law of self defense. Just my opinion.

coyote22 wrote:

Not that you care so I don’t know why I’m wasting my breath, but why it appears he was casing this house:

1. Walks up, is not jogging.

2. Appears to look around, in a position where he can see up and down the street, before entering the first time.

3. He is inside for at least three minutes.

4. He comes back out from the garage area and appears to look around the side of the house. Not sure, but he’s in that area. He re-enters the house.

5. After his second time in the house he will exit the front door of the home (contrary to some people saying this home has no doors).

6. A neighbor is outside and Arbery notices the neighbor and takes off running down the street. (In many jurisdictions, flight from a scene is evidence of consciousness of guilt). He does not wave, does not say “oh sorry I just wanted to check out the backsplash.”

You don’t have to agree with me. That’s okay. Just explaining my reasoning. I won’t argue with you further because nobody is going to end up changing their mind here.

coyote22 wrote:

Not that you care so I don’t know why I’m wasting my breath, but why it appears he was casing this house:

1. Walks up, is not jogging.

2. Appears to look around, in a position where he can see up and down the street, before entering the first time.

3. He is inside for at least three minutes.

4. He comes back out from the garage area and appears to look around the side of the house. Not sure, but he’s in that area. He re-enters the house.

5. After his second time in the house he will exit the front door of the home (contrary to some people saying this home has no doors).

6. A neighbor is outside and Arbery notices the neighbor and takes off running down the street. (In many jurisdictions, flight from a scene is evidence of consciousness of guilt). He does not wave, does not say “oh sorry I just wanted to check out the backsplash.”

You don’t have to agree with me. That’s okay. Just explaining my reasoning. I won’t argue with you further because nobody is going to end up changing their mind here.

coyote22 wrote:

Not that you care so I don’t know why I’m wasting my breath, but why it appears he was casing this house:

1. Walks up, is not jogging.

2. Appears to look around, in a position where he can see up and down the street, before entering the first time.

3. He is inside for at least three minutes.

4. He comes back out from the garage area and appears to look around the side of the house. Not sure, but he’s in that area. He re-enters the house.

5. After his second time in the house he will exit the front door of the home (contrary to some people saying this home has no doors).

6. A neighbor is outside and Arbery notices the neighbor and takes off running down the street. (In many jurisdictions, flight from a scene is evidence of consciousness of guilt). He does not wave, does not say “oh sorry I just wanted to check out the backsplash.”

You don’t have to agree with me. That’s okay. Just explaining my reasoning. I won’t argue with you further because nobody is going to end up changing their mind here.

coyote22 wrote:

3. Statements say the McMichaels were outside. The legality of the citizens arrest is going to hinge on two things. One: exactly how they knew he was there. I think I’ve read they saw him running; other things I’ve read say a neighbor told him, and I don’t think information from another person green lights a citizens arrest. Two: the definition of this “construction site.” Yes you can see the garage door is open but that doesn’t necessarily make it an “open” site under the law. It is a fully formed house from the outside and COULD be considered a “dwelling,” which could make the burglary statute applicable. There is probably a body of GA case law that will further define “dwelling.” If a court or jury determines it’s a dwelling then a citizens arrest could be lawful.