Mr. Renato Canova: Could You Please Answer a Question About Effective Ways to Improve the Lactate Threshold?

Renato Canova wrote:

These levels (1:55.0 - 4:00.0 / 4:20.0 - 8:50.0 / 9:35.0 - 15:50.0 - 33:00 / 1:12.0 HM - 2:30 / 2:32 Mar) are possible for each normal person. Everything depends on which level of interest you have.

Pardon the interruption, but where do these numbers come from? I train pretty hard and have not run any of these times, and I would consider myself a normal person. I think these times are well above normal. A 2:30 marathon is "average" and "normal." A 1:55 800? Nothing special?

Renato, I think you have been hanging around 1:43 Kenyans too long! These times are not normal or average; they're still very fast.

Renato,

Do you have the information on El Guerrouj´s training?

I think the info someone posted here isn’t true.

For example, I have heard that he does

regular sessions (once every other or third week) during the winter of 20x300m with 45s rec in 40-42s (race pace for him) for maintaining the feeling of race pace during period of very hard mileage.

Renato, do you have any more info on El Guerriuj training?

The best runner of ALL TIME!

On Marius' site, he said that Kada said there were some errors in that article by Velediaz, but the general idea for 1997 was correct. However it is 2005 and training changes in 8 years.

Maybe Marco Velediaz can tell us the errors..........

Marco:

Esta alli? Queremos discutir el escrito sobre El Guerrouj que ha escrito. Por favor, si puede, respondase.

new rule: ENGLISH ONLY, thanks!!=)

Viva Mexico wrote:

Marco:

Esta alli? Queremos discutir el escrito sobre El Guerrouj que ha escrito. Por favor, si puede, respondase.

Translacion:

Marco:

Are you there? We wish to discuss the writing about El Guerrouj that you have written. Please, if you can, respond.

"Training in the zone which influences the lactate threshold(LT) is perhaps the single most important sort of hard training a distance runner can do, although it does not by itself cover every base. The key speed involved with this fast aerobic running is often called lactate threshold velocity (LTV). This is roughly the speed which can be maintained for one hour if the pace is even throughout. Hovering at or just below this speed will bring the blood lactate level up to about 4.0 mM/L, while the heart rate will generally rise to near 85% of the way from its resting value to its max value. Breathing frequency at this pace will normally be 5-6 steps per exhalation. If a breath is required every 4 steps, the pace is probably too fast, and a slightly tight, uncomfortable feeling may shortly ensue.

The critical zone in which to run to improve LTV is between 95% and 105% of LTV. For example, if LTV is 5:00 per mile, 95% of this speed would be 5:15.7 pace and 105% would be 4:45.7 pace. Training within this range has several purposes.

Continuous running at LTV for 18-22 min. once or twice per week will raise the LT over time, while running at slightly slower speeds (95%-96% of LTV) for about an hour will have an impact on running economy. 95% of LTV will put the HR at about 80% of its range and will induce a blood lactate level of about 3.5 mM/L. The world's best marathoners can often run at this pace for the full marathon distance, with blood lactate levels at 3.5 mM/L for near 20 miles (a small oxygen deficit is meted out over the last 4-6 miles of the race). Most runners can manage no better than 93%-94% of LTV for their marathon race pace.

Serious runners may have trouble holding back to the correct speeds for workouts such as these and might be tempted to turn the runs into time trials. Time trials and races are important, too, but they are too stressful to use year-round as training devices such as these threshold workouts are meant to be. It's important to stay within the most effective zone to improve LTV and economy. Many elite runners (particularly Kenyans) have developed the ability to approach (but not reach) the lactate threshold in training almost every day, but this is done by feel and not by timing the runs. While runners with less experience should limit their efforts at a near-LTV to 2-4 workouts per week, running by feel and not by time is the ideal way to use threhold (or "high-end" aerobic) training, even during repetition running. The Conversion Chart gives the predicted LTV based on current race times, but it’s wise not to be a slave to such numbers, because (as mentioned in the 'Continuous Easy Runs' page) coming very close to the threshold too often or exceeding it on a regular basis can be ruinous.

Lactate threshold training also indirectly affects VO2max and reinforces preferential muscle fiber recruitment if the speed is increased near the end of the workout. This principle of working two critical speeds (in this case LTV and vVO2max) is one of the most important, yet least practiced, procedures of training. It is vital to negative split everything when running all hard workouts except pure sprint work. A "negative split" refers to running the last section of the workout the fastest. Runs at slower than LTV are considered moderate and need not be done with negative splits.

Performing the bulk of a workout at faster than LTV (e.g., 105%) should be reserved for repetition running; otherwise, lactate levels will rise too quickly to have enough running time to be effective. Repetition running can be used at any speed within the LT training zone, but it must employ extremely short rest periods to be of use. These rest periods can be as short as one-third or even one-sixth of the run periods for the particular workout being performed (e.g., 3 min. runs at LTV with 30 secs. rests).

Remember to warm up well (at least 12 min. of jogging plus a few buildups/strides is suggested), and do a sufficient cool-down jog and post-workout stretching in conjunction with any faster-paced workout effort. "

"Examples of Lactate Threshold Workouts

Continuous run of 26-32 minutes with the first 5-7 min. at 10-15 seconds/mile slower than LTV, the next 18-22 min. at exactly LTV, and the last 2.5-3 min. smoothly accelerated from 95% of VO2max speed down to 105% of VO2max speed.

Suppose Dave is a good collegiate runner with a 14:20 5,000 PR and a 30:00 10,000 best. A 14:20 5,000 time predicts a LTV of 5:02 mile pace and a VO2max pace of 4:30 per mile. Dave would thus probably benefit most from a LT workout beginning at roughly 5:10-5:15 pace for a mile, 5:02 pace for 18-22 min. (4 miles would take 20:08), then about 0.6 miles at an average speed of 4:30 mile pace (allowing the first min. of that last segment to squeeze the pace down). The total distance covered would be about 5.6 miles, give or take a bit, with a total time of around 28 min. (average pace of 5:00), plus or minus a few minutes if Dave decided to go longer or shorter in the middle.

Since Dave could theoretically run 5:02 pace for an hour, he could obviously run harder during those middle 18-22 min., but the effect on his aerobic development would not be any better. In this case, going harder would only mean getting an anaerobic workout which would require more recovery time and which might actually undermine full aerobic development. Remember, economy is promoted through a steady VO2, which can be controlled perceptually by keeping the effort aerobic, the breathing pattern consistent, and the heart rate constant. Heart rates during the time spent at LTV should stay below 85% effort. If Dave's resting pulse is 40 and his maximum is 200, his range is 160. 85% of 160 is 136, so by staying below 40 + 136 = 176 beats/min., Dave would be running within 85% of his maximum effort. A little higher pulse near the end of the workout is acceptable.

These LT workouts are not time trials and the reins should be kept on the pace until the very end. Notice, however, that two critical speeds (95%-105% of LT pace and 95%-105% of VO2max pace) are being attained. This ensures that correct neurological feedback is achieved by recruiting more ST fibers early and more FT fibers later.

It is best to run all LT workouts in racing flats in order to develop ankle power and flexibility. This not only improves running performance, it also reduces the risk of injury. Heavy training flats restrict the full range of motion of the ankle, and performing every single continuous run in "trainers" is a prescription for injury.

Continuous run of 60-70 min. at 95%-96% of LTV with only a minor increase in tempo during the last few minutes.

This duration at this pace is comparable in intensity of effort to a run of 18-22 min. at LTV. It is therefore not as hard a workout as the continuous run described in the previous section, since additional running at a faster pace is performed in that shorter effort. Both workouts require similar recovery times, however. This is due to impact stress and the fact that the longer run expends more calories and requires more carbohydrate reloading. Heart rates should hover around 80%-82% of maximum effort.

This slower, longer tempo run was employed by the late Kiyoshi Nakamura in his coaching of 2:08:27 marathoner Toshihiko Seko, and it is still used as a staple workout in the training of Japanese marathoners. Statistical evidence (and experience) has shown that running at 95.2% of LTV for 65 min. provides the optimum training effect for improving both LTV and running economy. Elite runners generally run at 93% to 95% of LTV for a marathon race, so this 60-70 min. effort also provides a good pace workout without excessive impact stress and without risking glycogen depletion.

Collegiate runner Dave, with a 10,000 PR of 30:00 and a LT pace of 5:02 per mile, would run at 5:15-5:18 pace for a 60-70 min. tempo outing, and might get as far as 13.3 miles in 70 min. (the Japanese marathoners often go 20,000 meters, or 12.43 miles, in around 61-62 min.). Since Dave has a resting heart rate of 40 and a max of 200, 82% of his max effort would result in a pulse of 171. By keeping his heart rate around 170 or slightly under, he will derive the desired benefit from this particular workout.

Dave's 30:00 10K PR is equivalent to a 2:21:44 marathon, which requires a 5:24.3 mile pace, so by running a few secs./mile faster than this, Dave is also developing efficiency at the rhythm needed for the marathon in case he wants to contest this distance."

" 2 x 15-18 min. at LTV (no variation in pace during either run)/5-7 minutes easy jog between runs.

This workout is a slightly harder effort than either of the previous two LT workouts, especially if the maximum run length of 18 min. is used on both reps (2 x 15 min. is normally used by runners with less base mileage or less experience). No attempt should be made to pick up the pace at the end of either rep, although the entire second run can be done faster than the first if the first seems excessively easy. This workout allows more time spent at LTV than would be prudent to spend in any continuous effort (without the 5-7 min. rest) short of a time trial. The 5-7 min. recovery jog period gives the time to clear any accumulated lactate and lets the neuromuscular system relax briefly.

For 30:00 10K runner Dave, 2 runs of 3.5 miles each at a 5:02 pace provides the optimum effect directed toward improving his LTV. Each 3.5-mile segment would require about 17:38 at Dave's LTV.

This type of workout is also excellent for improving economy (owing to the overall time spent at LT pace), provided the pace remains even throughout both runs and never exceeds LTV. Going faster than LTV for 18 min. twice would probably become too strenuous to affect running economy.

It is usually a good policy to add 4-6 buildups during the post-workout cool-down period in order to recruit FT fibers. This ensures that FT fibers will be mobilized after ST ones are fatigued from the workout. The purpose is to influence correct sequential fiber recruitment, which is one of the most essential components of fast-paced running.

10-15 x 3 min. runs at LTV (first 1-2 reps slightly slower, last 2-3 gradually faster)/30-35 secs. rest periods between.

This workout provides 30-45 min. of running at LT speed, which would probably be too close to a time trial effort to maintain efficiency were it not for the rest periods. Notice how short the rest periods are in comparison to the run periods. This type of workout is sometimes referred to as being of high density. It is crucial to stay within the pace guidelines on high density sessions, since going too fast with very little rest would adversely affect relaxation and economy.

Dave, our college distance runner with PRs of 14:20 and 30:00, has a LT pace of 5:02 per mile. Dave would cover 950 meters in 2:58 at his LT pace (75 secs. per 400), so he could run the indicated workout on a track, then shuffle the remaining 50 meters to the next half-lap line before starting his next rep. This workout could also obviously be performed away from the track, either on a measured course or by effort. As usual, it's best to start slower and finish faster. So Dave could begin with 77 second 400s, warming up a little, and finish with 73 pace or even faster. The middle 2/3 of the reps should be done right at LT speed in order to promote efficiency.

Ronaldo DaCosta (2:06:05 marathoner) has reportedly run 15 x 1,000 meters at 3:00 each with 30 secs. rest periods. This is actually about 1 second per mile slower than his marathon pace! This is, however, just a workout (and no mention is made as to whether it was done at altitude). The moral is that relaxation and efficient rhythm are more important than "tying up like a big dog" when the objective of the workout is to train the aerobic component. If a former World Record holder runs his 3 min. repeats that slowly in comparison to his LT pace (which is probably about 4:35 mile pace), then going a little easier than possible can't be all that bad! Actually, DaCosta's 1,000s are run at about 95% of his predicted LTV, which is still within the zone which has an impact on raising his LT, and the high volume at this pace will certainly improve his economy.

16-20 x 400 at 105% of LTV (about 3-4 secs. per 400 faster than LTV)/20-25 secs. rest periods.

This workout gets to the upper limit of the training zone which works on raising the LT, and it actually approaches the speed which trains the VO2max. Its effect on LTV results mainly from the very short rest periods. The pace involved is a little faster than 10K pace for most runners, and people slower than 35:00 for 10,000 should tend toward 16 reps rather than 20 (some world-class runners do more than 20) at this pace.

Our hypothetical 30 min. 10K runner Dave, whose LTV is 5:02 mile pace (75 secs. per 400), runs at 71-72 secs. for his 400s on this workout. A few can be slower at first, some gradually faster at the end (as usual), but about 3/4 of the reps should stay at 71-72 to reinforce the rhythm.

Since the rests are so short, the heart rate will not decrease much (if any), but this is good by reason of the fact that lactate is used as a fuel by the heart as long as the rate of its accumulation does not increase sharply. If performed correctly, this workout produces a virtual steady state of cardiac output at a much faster pace than could be attained on a continuous run without going into the anaerobic zone. The heart rates during this workout generally stay above 85% of maximum effort but below 90%.

Ronaldo DaCosta's published workouts include up to 25 x 400 at a 66.2 average with 15-20 secs. recovery periods. Because of the higher number of reps and shorter rest periods, this should represent 103% of his LTV, and indicates that he could run at a 4:34-4:35 pace for an hour (about a half marathon). This is equivalent to "only" 2:07:30 for the marathon, but is consistent with DaCosta performing better as the distance increases. DaCosta also appears to work out a little below his utmost capabilities, possibly to work more on economy or possibly because of the cumulative loading effect of his two long runs per week. He also reputedly performs drills regularly and would presumably want to remain fresh enough to make them productive. In any event, there's a lesson in this inasmuch as workouts which are meant to train the aerobic system should not be run as hard as possible! "

That's Kellogg and Heffner on training to improve the lactate threshold, apparently for a sub-elite as they give some examples (although also about da Costa, who held the marathon world record at 2:06:05 before Khannouchi ran 2:05:42) from paragonrunning.com

Sorry, I didn't format that quite correctly. If anyone wants the link, I can get it. Kellogg coaches Weldon, and took from 30:49 in the 10,000m down to 28:06 in 2003, 4th at the U.S. national championships, behind Culpepper (27:33 PR), Meb (American record holder, 27:13.98) and Browne (13:16 5K PR).

I don't use ABSOLUTELY any type of drink that is not water for my athletes, track or marathon is the same.

When I was responsible of Italian Marathon, I and Lucio Gigliotti (that is for me a brother, we were responsible together for 15 years working every day in our National Center) tryed to prepare OG in Atlanta '96 using also Maltodestrine. This happened because the preview for the Olympic Marathon were 30-32 degrees at 95% of humidity. Italian and Spanish (of sure the more advanced schools in marathon) feared that, because of the humidity, after 28-30 km the athletes can be totally dehidrated, and our first aim was to reintegrate the lost salts.

I had some test in training. For example, in Tirrenia in June, at 11:00 a.m (32 degrees, very humid), I controlled the weight of my fenmale athletes : Curatolo 39.3 kg, Viceconte 47.7, Ferrara 42.6. After this, the athletes went for 4 km warm-up, then a test with 2 times 2000m in 7:00 and 6:50 taking blood for the lactate level, then 30 km at 3:35 ov average, then again the test with 2 x 2000m in 7:00 and 6:50 for controlling the difference after and before running 30 km, and at the end 1 x 2000m free (I remember yet times : Curatolo 6:16, Ferrara 6:46, Viceconte 7:02) for investigating how much glycogen they had still in their tank.

The athletes had to drink every 5 km from a bottle with maltodestrine, 2 liters, and at the end we could control how much every athlete drank. When they arrived we controlled their weight again : Curatolo 35.6, Ferrara 39.3, Viceconte 43.8. It means that the athletes lost :

Curatolo 3.7 kg (drinking all the 2 liters), Ferrara 3.3 kg (drinking 1.8 liters) and Viceconte 3.9 kg (drinking 1.2 liters). I always have these datas with me, because I use it in some seminar.

This means that, without drinking, athletes of that weight could lose an average of more than 5 kg, about 10-13% of their weight, during a marathon in those conditions.

The problem was that our training was in Asiago in July, always with fresh temperature. Using maltodestrine every day, sweating very little, they took weight, and their performances were not able to improve.

When we arrived in Atlanta, the day for the Marathon of women was very fresh, and all our scintific approach became a boomerang.

From that experience, I sistematically refuse to use anything with my athletes. But it's very important to teach to the athletes how to drink, and that for them to take more water possible is a must.

I think that nothing like a correct training can change your methabolism, also looking for long run.

Thank you Renato for the reply. It always good to read about other factors and how they effect performance rather than just the times and Ks. I think many people tend to skip over the basics in favour of miles and intensity.

My reason for asking is that i have a coach with theory that using energy drinks for marathon training actualy hinders performance - reduces your fat burning ability.

I have witnessed many marathon runners (at one point myself) with poor diets (high sugar, low fat and protein)and using loads of energy drinks. I spoke to a friend of mine(2.12 runner 15 years ago) and he convinced me to operate at pace and training with no drinks and changed my diet to lots of slow burning foods.

With a few months of perseverance (it was hard at first) i was no longer hitting the wall in my long runs and especialy marathon pace training. I then went from being a 2.30 marathon runner slowing down at the end to 2.22 with a negative split in 5 months!!

I did lose some weight but i'm pretty sure it comes down to fat burning ability. Does anyone else have this expierence or if i'm on the right track with diet??

Khalid Khannouchi only drank water during his 2:05:42 WR in Chicago.

And so did Gebrselassie, and he faded so badly that Paula Radcliffe ran HER last mile FASTER than did Gebrselassie.

At about the 1:50-1:55 mark of a highly paced marathon, your body will start to switch its fuel consumption ("the wall"). You need some sort of replacement drink.

Isn't the point that you TRAIN with just water, which trains your body to metabolise fats more effectively, but RACE taking on extra carbs just like everyone else. The effect of this is that your body is least likely to get depleted of glycogen.

Statistical evidence (and experience) has shown that running at 95.2% of LTV for 65 min. provides the optimum training effect for improving both LTV and running economy

ya right, do you make this stuff up

Renato, I had thought the same in Lausanne (1500 race Hicham over Songok); I thought at the time Songok had beaten Hicham and was a bit suspicious of the result (....esp when Swiss officials were very reluctant to let me see the photo finish!). But when I did I saw that Songok had dipped too early - he was probably ahead with 1-2m to go but was clearly (not by much) behind at the line.

Often (especially with Kenyan athletes) the judges get it wrong because it's hard to tell on photo finish who is who and of course they don't know the athletes like we do. It's often the case that results are changed an hour or two later.