american fork runners go 1-2-3, herriman's steadman tanked and didn't score, might be burn out
He didn’t score today either, and Herriman still came away with the win. They return 3 of their top 5 next year too. And their 8th runner who did very well at Runninglane is coming back too
Niwot boys team took 5th with 0 seniors and 2 juniors
Will be an interesting battle between these 2 teams at NXR and NXN next year
For the SW region it's like they get to run the national meet twice! Insanely stacked. Also interesting how first and second place at NXRSW was swapped for both boys and girls at NXN. You literally couldn't get an auto-qualifier in the SW region unless you could win NXN.
Newbury park has been the best team for the past 4 years and loudoun valley the 2 years before that. This coming year will be the dawn of a new era. Lets look at who some of the top returning teams would be.
Notes: The class I put by each name (FR, SO, JR, SR) refers to the runner's 2023 XC season.
Southern Oregon (Crater HS, OR) - 4th at NXN, won state title with 30 points in 5A. This team loses Tyrone Gorze but returns their #2 through #6 runners. As you can see below, they have some absolute studs and guys that all have NXN experience. Won NXR by score of 75-101.
JR Josiah Tostenson - Was their #2 guy at NXN as a sophomore, 4:09 full mile as a freshman, state champion at 1500 as freshman/2nd in 3000 behind teammate Tyronze Gorze
SR Jeffrey Hellman - #3 guy at NXN. Quote from Hellmann this past track season: "Our team is as close as we can get, and none of us would be here without all of us."
JR Tayvon Kitchen - #4 guy at NXN. Dropped his XC PB nearly 2 minutes this season from FR to SO year.
SR Shaun Garnica - #5 guy at NXN. Only runs 3k in Oregon - has broken 9 several times as a sophomore.
SR Caleb Doddington - #6 guy at NXN. Was their #3 at state behind Gorze and Tostenson. 3rd at state in the 800m as a sophomore with a 1:56 PB.
American Fork, UT - 5th at NXN, UT 6A state title, won NXR over the team that placed 3rd at NXN by score of 113-152. The only runner on their top 7 that doesn't return is their #4. Considering they also have the top individual returner who was 2nd at NXN (Daniel Simmons) - they should absolutely be taken seriously as a contender.
SR Daniel Simmons - 2nd overall finisher at NXN in a stacked field, won NXR by over 10 seconds, was a transfer from Idaho where he was the 3200 2Astate champ with a 9:05 as sophomore (won by 20 seconds).
SR Chase Pack - #2 guy at NXN, Made huge time improvements from SO to JR year in XC.
SR Ben Jaster - #3 guy at NXN, was their #2 guy at running lane championships in 2021, 9:21 3200 as a sophomore
SR Ben Bradshaw - #5 guy at NXN, made a big jump in XC from SO to JR years. Ran 1:58/4:19 as a sophomore
JR Kaden Evans - #6 guy at NXN, after running 5:01/11:25 on the track as a freshman, he dropped over 3 minutes in his XC times and became a regular staple of the team's top 7 as a sophomore.
Wayzata, MN - 12th at NXN, return every runner on top 7 except their #5, won NXR by score of 125-167. Their team did not have a great day at NXN and their only senior who finished 4th overall at state and was their top guy, finished as their 5th man at NXN. But considering they are returning everyone else and they have experience, I think Wayzata should be an early contender.
SR Daniel McCollor - #1 guy at NXN, dropped a minute off his times from SO to JR year
JR Will Weber - #2 guy at NXN, was 9th overall finisher at state as a sophomore.
SR Parker Dietrick - #3 guy at NXN, ran 1:57 800 as a sophomore
SR Tyler Kissell - #4 guy at NXN, this season he dropped a minute off his state meet PB and 1:30 off his NXR PB.
How would I be "full of it" for simply posting facts about how fast runners have run at Bob Firman and Clovis before, in response to someone stating a baseless claim?
Update;
For the 7th instance of comparison (with all 6 previous instances saying that Eagle Island was not merely 10 seconds slower but at least 20-25 and that somehow I was "full of it" for pointing out that's never been the case and that for some unknown reason it would have to be proven once again for the historical comparison to even matter when talking about historical comparisons):
CA runners averaged 17:48.5 at NXN after averaging 16:36.1 at CA State (+1:12.5); NW runners averaged 17:35.7 at NXN after averaging 16:50.4 at NXR Northwest (+0:45.3), suggesting that Eagle Island (specifically NXR) was 27.2 seconds slower than the Woodward Park (specifically CA State) this year.
NW 1- 14:49 Eagle Park -> 15:18 Glendoveer 3rd - Nathan Neil -29s NW 2- 15:05 Eagle Park -> 15:30 Glendoveer 14th - Landon Hemeeyer -25s NW 3- 15:11 Eagle Park -> 15:55 Glendoveer 56th - Parker Mong -44s NW 4 -15:12 Eagle Park -> 16:09 Glendoveer 79th - Jack Meier -57s NW 5 -15:13 Eagle Park -> 16:15 Glendoveer 90th - Noah Laughlin-hall -62s
CA 1 - 14:56 Woodward Park -> 15:26 Glendoveer 8th - Jason Parra -30 CA 2 - 14:52 Woodward Park -> 15:26 Glendoveer 9th - Joshua Bell -34 CA 3 - 14:49 Woodward Park -> 15:33 Glendoveer 19th - Eli Fitchen Young -41 CA 4 - 14:45 Woodward Park -> 15:37 Glendoveer - Lucas Cohen -52 CA 5 - 14:46 Woodward Park -> 15:40 Glendoveer - Eli Fitchen Young -56 CA 6 - 14:45 Woodward Park -> 16:21 Glendoveer - Emmanuel Perez -1:36 CA 7 - 14:58 Woodward Park -> 16:27 Glendoveer - Aydon Stefanopolous -1:29
Skyridge got 6th at the Utah 6A meet. They were beaten by Layton and Lone Peak as well as Riverton, AF, Herriman. You also have Maple Mountain, Viewmont, Mountain View and Orem(Austin Westfall was 4th at NXN instead of runninglane with his team). Any of those teams are as good or better than Skyridge.
Skyridge got 6th at the Utah 6A meet. They were beaten by Layton and Lone Peak as well as Riverton, AF, Herriman. You also have Maple Mountain, Viewmont, Mountain View and Orem(Austin Westfall was 4th at NXN instead of runninglane with his team). Any of those teams are as good or better than Skyridge.
Boys and girls, how many sw teams would have likely finished 20th or better at NXN?
Personally if I had the choice I would give it to Vandegrift over CA #4, Great Oak - SW #4, Niwot. Think about this.
Niwot is the #2 best Colorado team since 2015. Probably around the same strength at Great Oak 2023. However, they have a terrible resume for not racing the competition from NW, SW, CA.
Great Oak won all of California early-mid season races. They were 2nd at Woodbridge, 2nd at Clovis, 1st at Mt Sac and 6th at NXN last year. Their team time improved from 78:00 - 2022 to - 77:35 2023 at their state course (woodward park).
However, Vandegrift needed to perform better at their NXR course. NXR shouldn't be treated as a joke. Common. How does the gap go from Southlake Carroll go from 8 seconds 15:21-15:29 to 27 seconds 15:10-15:37 in 1 week? Taper for the damn race and run smarter next time
Sounds like some good lessons for Austin Vandegrift next year. Luckily for them, they only lose 2 seniors and have some talent to pull from the JV team next year.
What is your definition of getting crushed? Losing to AF AND herriman? Say NE gets no at-large bids, which may be fair, are they still overrated? Comparing 5man avg times on different courses across the country as determining who is really good is just an absurd tactic. So a course can’t be difficult if it’s not at altitude? Courses are different. That’s literally cross country. Yes, hilly courses will have slower times. Wild how that works…
Excited to see the first few NXR meets get going this weekend and see how things start to shake out!
For me, CBA 2023 is the best team to ever emerge from the Northeast. The definition of being crushed would be for CBA 2023 to have three SW teams finish ahead of them at NXN. These teams are American Fork, Herriman and Niwot. As for the unnecessary hate, it's all in good fun. According to Connor Burns, "drama is good for the sport." It's enjoyable to initiate a new rivalry between East and West, a dynamic that seemed non-existent in recent years. Concerning the at-large bids, the Southwest is worried that they might have a highly competitive fourth team, and their bid might be awarded to the third team from the Northeast. There's apprehension that the team receiving the bid might not live up to its projected strength. In 2019, California's Jesuit (77:50) lost its at-large bid to El Paso, which subsequently finished last at NXN. Thus, such scenarios can indeed unfold.
Cords from Southlake Carroll was just outside of their top 7 at the beginning of this season, and at NXN, he was their #3 guy. This year is his first year on varsity.
He also took 19th at NXR. He is one of the big reasons why Southlake Carroll made the podium at NXN.
NXN boys qualifying teams that were not ranked in the top 33 (first group) for TullyRunners preseason national rankings: - Franklin Oregon - Niwot (ranked #34, first one in the second group) - Plainfield North - Montgomery Bell Academy - Monroe Woodbury (ranked #9 in the preseason TullyRunners NY rankings) - Auburn (ranked #5 in the preseason TullyRunners NY rankings)
No New York team was ranked in the top 33 (first group) for TullyRunners preseason national rankings
How these teams did at NXN:
Franklin - 14th
Niwot - 5th. Completely outperformed the preseason predictions and even what everyone thought the second before the race
Plainfield North - 15th
Montgomery Bell Academy - 21st. But at NXR they beat FIVE Southeast teams that were ranked in the top 33 in the Tullyrunners preseason rankings
NXN girls qualifying teams that were not ranked in the top 31 (first group) for TullyRunners preseason national rankings: Tatnall Union Catholic Santiago Corona Lincoln Downers Grove North Wayzata Olathe West
There were no Heartland girls teams in the first group of the TullyRunners preseason rankings, just like there were no New York boys teams in the first group
How these girls teams did:
Tatnall - 9th
Union Catholic - 10th
Santiago Corona - 19th
Lincoln - 20th
Downers Grove North - 16th
Wayzata - 21st
Olathe West - 22nd
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not a fan of this but teams didn't do very well so it's possible
NXN boys qualifying teams that were not ranked in the top 33 (first group) for TullyRunners preseason national rankings: - Franklin Oregon - Niwot (ranked #34, first one in the second group) - Plainfield North - Montgomery Bell Academy - Monroe Woodbury (ranked #9 in the preseason TullyRunners NY rankings) - Auburn (ranked #5 in the preseason TullyRunners NY rankings)
No New York team was ranked in the top 33 (first group) for TullyRunners preseason national rankings
Niwot - 5th. Completely outperformed the preseason predictions and even what everyone thought the second before the race
I think most of the Californians knew how good Niwot was. They were the ones that pointed it out after Niwot ran their state meet. They also raced Rock Canyon in the early season and Niwot was supposed to be two tiers ahead of Rock Canyon. But like most of them turned on Niwot after they got the 4th at-large lmao
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