Mr. Renato Canova: Could You Please Answer a Question About Effective Ways to Improve the Lactate Threshold?

trackhead wrote:

Don't assume to know -- the story about Daniel Komen is that he never really enjoed running, for him it was a way to make money. Once he made his fortune, there wasn't much point to keep up the hard training and he was done. Differejt strokes for different folks.

That is not true. Why, then, after winning 1997 WC gold, setting WR's at 3K, 2 miles, and 5K, and ensuring himself enough of a fortune for a lifetime to live off in Kenya (where, as Larry Rawson reminds us, a bus ride costs 15 cents) did you still see Komen pacemakin Rutto at the Chicago Marathon, or fighting it out at 13:10 pace on the Golden League?

Is he running 13:10 for the money? Because you won't make much with that.

And Renato has published all the significant workouts Kemboi did during that season -- they're somewhere around here.

I have never seen what he did in the 48 days from 13:42 to 26:30, nor has Renato really comprehenisvely discussed it. As stated, I would love to hear his opinion, because that type of improvement cannot be ignored. I have never, at any level, seen that type of progression.

If a 4:30 high school miler, with 7 weeks of training, popped an 8:40 2 mile, wouldn't you want to know what the heck he did to get there (beyond simply "8 x 400 in 61" but instead commentary from his coach)?

something else: The same type of quote was attributed to Catherine Ndeereba; that she never enjoyed running, it was jut a job, and she would not do it when she got older.

Funny, then, that every single time she spoke to Runner's World or any magazine after that, she would gush over how much she loved running and what a great sport it was to her. Even for someone who has this as a job, you could not make it 5 years of 120 miles per week without enjoying it to some degree.

Many arguments regarding the plausibilty of Kemboi's jump speak to its relative difficulty "at that level." There is no "that" level, Kemboi simply runs good and bad races for his ability, much like we do.

Kemboi was training for a half marathon, as Renato states, and then he took it easy for a couple of months before running 28:19. Renato introduced specific training, and Kemboi popped off 26:30.

The whole concept of pacemaking is for the money and no glory!

He's running substandard (for him) times b/c that's what he can run given the effort he can/will put into it. He's burned, but he's still running better than 99.99999% of the humans on the planet, and his name and even a time like that can still put some money in the bank.

Ancient Art of Dim Mak wrote:

Even for someone who has this as a job, you could not make it 5 years of 120 miles per week without enjoying it to some degree.

Sure you could -- you know what people do for real jobs? Things that are a lot harder than getting out the door and running in the open air for 15hrs/wk. If there are guys that will scrub out other people's shit 60hrs a week for $7/hr, you better believe that in a country striken with poverty, you'll find people willing to run 120mi weeks.

trackhead wrote:

The whole concept of pacemaking is for the money and no glory!

He's running substandard (for him) times b/c that's what he can run given the effort he can/will put into it. He's burned, but he's still running better than 99.99999% of the humans on the planet, and his name and even a time like that can still put some money in the bank.

He has enough money. He doesn't need any more money.

You must have watched a European race. They give maybe $100,000 for a WR.

Komen has the 3K, the 2 miles (twice; 8:03, and 7:58), had the 5K (12:39) and won the WC 5K.

He has more money than he will ever need. He lives in Kenya. Everything is cheap, inexpensive.

He does not need to run and make money anymore.

But he still runs.

Why, if he doesn't need to, and he has enough money, would he still run?

trackhead wrote:

Sure you could -- you know what people do for real jobs? Things that are a lot harder than getting out the door and running in the open air for 15hrs/wk. If there are guys that will scrub out other people's shit 60hrs a week for $7/hr, you better believe that in a country striken with poverty, you'll find people willing to run 120mi weeks.

Did you read Scott Douglas's article in the last RT?

In it, there is a guy who had a knee injury. He could not run, got "treatment" that mess it up worse, and, when he found he couldn't run, decided to hang himself.

I can assure you, talk to Paul Tergat, Evans Rutto, Abraham Chebii, Eliud Kipchoge.

Initially it may be poverty, but there are some other options in Kenya and Ethiopia as well. Gebrselassie's brothers made it good as doctors and lawyers.

These guys at some point make plenty of money and can stop. But they keep going.

Do you think Tergat, after he won his 5th title at WXC in 1999, needed to keep running? World half marathon records, world titles, world record at 10K; do you think he needed more money?

He didn't, so why did he continue?

Dim

reference the 48 days..

After coming second in the 76 Olympic trials and failing to go, I did almost no training over the Olympics itself. In the post Olympic compettions in UK I ran really well and in two separate races came close to beating medalists at 800 and 1500. I then stopped running again for a few weeks and got back to motivated normal. In late september went on a national team training camp. In a 20 minute continuous session on sandunes I lapped everyone including endurance finalists.

My blood count was 16.8 and I was flying. My perfomance was hugely better than before. I then realised that I had simply not allowed enough time to recover before the trials. This is no answer to the above 48 days question but it does show that you cannot follow the logic of the body so simply.

haven't i said that it was an individual matter?

Dim,

Komen is back in the game because his money is running out fast and athletics is the only way he knows to earn money.

Its a sad reality that while some athletes are astute with their earnings and invest well others do not have the financial skills and spend until there is nothing left. Many a fortune nows stands as a pile of bricks and a rusty merc in a field in the rift valley ...

Rift Runner

Glen wrote:

Dim

reference the 48 days..

After coming second in the 76 Olympic trials and failing to go, I did almost no training over the Olympics itself. In the post Olympic compettions in UK I ran really well and in two separate races came close to beating medalists at 800 and 1500. I then stopped running again for a few weeks and got back to motivated normal. In late september went on a national team training camp. In a 20 minute continuous session on sandunes I lapped everyone including endurance finalists.

My blood count was 16.8 and I was flying. My perfomance was hugely better than before. I then realised that I had simply not allowed enough time to recover before the trials. This is no answer to the above 48 days question but it does show that you cannot follow the logic of the body so simply.

If you got 2nd in the Trials, why did you not go? Don't the top 3 in an event go?

Also, as I mentioned, you probably had prior indications or performance levels that simply suffered.

There is a fundamental difference between a 4:00 miler who overtrains, runs 4:10, then rests a bit and runs 3:59 versus a 28:19 runner who, 26 days after running 13:42 for 5K, runs 26:30 for 10,000.

Kemboi was quite consistent before this; 28:19, 13:42, 13:42 again. All reasonable, very good performances. And then he drops a bombshell with 26:30? Huh?

trackhead wrote:

haven't i said that it was an individual matter?

Yes, but I believe in the individual cases of both Kemboi and Komen you are underestimating things. The only way we would know is to talk to them sirectly or ask someone who knows them, and with all the people on this board with connections, perhaps that is possible.

komen is in boulder training for a marathon.

Rift Runner wrote:

Dim,

Komen is back in the game because his money is running out fast and athletics is the only way he knows to earn money.

Its a sad reality that while some athletes are astute with their earnings and invest well others do not have the financial skills and spend until there is nothing left. Many a fortune nows stands as a pile of bricks and a rusty merc in a field in the rift valley ...

Rift Runner

Do you know Komen? How has his money run out that fast? Every indication shows that life is inexpensive in Kenya, and far more so with hundreds of thousands like Komen has won.

If you know him, would you say he enjoys running? I have seen him interviewed after his 7;58 2 mile; he is a humble person, and also was thrilled at the historical significance of his mark. He kept repeating in his interview how he was the first to run sub-8, and how much that meant to him.

That does not sound like someone fixated on money, but rather someone who enjoys his racing.

komen wrote:

komen is in boulder training for a marathon.

If this is true, it also discourages the theory that "he's in it for the money."

The only guaranteed payday in the sport is pacemaking, and next to that, doing well on the Euro circuit is better than running a 2:11 marathon, if that's the condition Komen is in.

Speaking of athletes who were once good but have been gone for awhile, what ever happened to Assefa Mezgebu? There was a guy on here a few months back who went to Ethiopia and trained with him and Gebrselassie. Mezgebu ran 26:53, 12:53, and had two bronzes and a silver in 10K runs. He is only 27 this year, so where is he?

Komen will get money on his name alone. As well as pacemaking duties.

Rift Runner or anyone else; has anyone ever talked with Komen or trained with any of those Puma guys (Ngeny, Kiptanui). There was a guy who went to Addis to train with Haile, and it's always interesting to reasd thost type of story. I heard those Kim McDonald runners beat the heck out of themselves always, doing repear miles under 4:00 and crazy stuff like that in ppuring rain in England a few weejks before tbey have 5K's on the tracl.

This thread is phenomenal.