We don't need a million thread on this topic. We like one thread per topic. We merged several others into this thread including one called "Alex Pretti was a deranged lunatic." and one called "New York Times reports that Pretti attacked ICE cars 11 days before his death" and one called "LeBron James: Why hasn't he commented on the Alex Pretti killing?"
just leaving this here. best place for it probably.
He crossed the line between journalist and active participant when he continued to accost people inside the church after he was asked to leave by the pastor. The tone and context of his questions were accusatory in nature, which is where he crossed the line between a journalist documenting an event and active participation in a protest inside of a house of worship.
An interesting parallel that I'm sure most of you are unaware of was when Jesus shook up the temple. How he was not arrested on the spot due to the support he received from the crowd. He was arrested later. Ultimately they drew a different crime when they prosecuted him but this was the act that set them in motion.
Also interesting is that historians of different faiths believed this story was true.
I’ve asked the specific question about Pretti maybe 8 times to you.
It feels very relevant to this thread and our discussion to understand your stance on this specific shooting (see thread title)
Im even giving you an out and not asking you to adjudicate if it was justified. Just to state basic facts about the incident.
Was he unarmed when shot? Was he shot in the back?
If you can’t answer these very basic questions - instead vaguely deflect and insult and get mad - I have to wonder what your mental model of the debate is here? Do you not think these points are salient at all?
Everyone knows when you reasonably believe you are getting shot at or others are getting shot, you should not defend yourself and others by shooting that person wherever you can, but instead wait and position yourself directly in front of the shooter so they can see you, take your mask off so they know it's you, and then take the shot.
Is it reasonable to believe you’re getting shot at when you have a guy pinned on his stomach and your colleague just removed the gun from a secure holster that was never touched?
Are you suggesting the presence of a gun is enough for reasonable belief? SCOTUS disagrees
An interesting parallel that I'm sure most of you are unaware of was when Jesus shook up the temple. How he was not arrested on the spot due to the support he received from the crowd. He was arrested later. Ultimately they drew a different crime when they prosecuted him but this was the act that set them in motion.
Also interesting is that historians of different faiths believed this story was true.
My god. You are insufferable. Here is our original exchange.
you: “Trumps polls have cratered across the board. Even conservative pollsters like Rasmussen show he is underwater on approval for immigration, etc. Can you say it’s bad to shoot unarmed citizens in the back?”
me: “I could certainly say that if there was an example of it. I don’t deal in hypotheticals usually though.”
I then asked if there were any other circumstances worth considering besides being a random unarmed bystander shot in the back. Then you did, well, you did what harambe does. Obfuscate, dodge, change subjects, and boast of victory. Typical harambe. Not impressed.
I’ve asked the specific question about Pretti maybe 8 times to you.
It feels very relevant to this thread and our discussion to understand your stance on this specific shooting (see thread title)
Im even giving you an out and not asking you to adjudicate if it was justified. Just to state basic facts about the incident.
Was he unarmed when shot? Was he shot in the back?
If you can’t answer these very basic questions - instead vaguely deflect and insult and get mad - I have to wonder what your mental model of the debate is here? Do you not think these points are salient at all?
That poor innocent protester!
Legacy media will never show you this video of Alex Pretti reaching for his loaded handgun before an ICE agent shot him in self defense!
Will things calm down now that Dwarf Vader has been reassigned to El Centro, CA?
And Noem sidelined.
But the vibes have already permanently shifted. Trump will probably need to shake things up more to try and recover from his worst polling ever.
No longer confined to the partisans and activists, the fierce backlash against President Trump's immigration crackdown has begun to break out across American culture, spanning the worlds of business, sports and entertainment. https://t.co/U4Y7LFjZwU
For whatever reason Harambe is embarrassed to admit he’s a progressive liberal.
Yeah, it’s weird. He screams he’s a “centrist libertarian” with the entire “Thou doth protest too much” vibe, but literally every LRC thread he barfs all over all day long like a true member of the unemployed or underemployed nose ring militia reveals him for what he really is, a far leftwing nutter lacking capacity for nuance.
Not sure why it’s embarrassing to come out of the closet in today’s day and age. TDS really has messed these people up. It is a mental illness, the raging and seething and need to always respond and agitate.
Is it reasonable to believe you’re getting shot at when you have a guy pinned on his stomach and your colleague just removed the gun from a secure holster that was never touched?
Are you suggesting the presence of a gun is enough for reasonable belief? SCOTUS disagrees
I ALWAYS have a gun on me, so usually when I get confronted by law enforcement, no matter what I'm doing, I try to get away, and if that doesn't work, I try to wrestle them. Works like a charm. Even if there are seven cops, I can usually out fight them and live to agitate I mean protest another day.
Is it reasonable to believe you’re getting shot at when you have a guy pinned on his stomach and your colleague just removed the gun from a secure holster that was never touched?
Are you suggesting the presence of a gun is enough for reasonable belief? SCOTUS disagrees
Is it reasonable to believe you’re getting shot at when you have a guy pinned on his stomach and your colleague just removed the gun from a secure holster that was never touched?
Are you suggesting the presence of a gun is enough for reasonable belief? SCOTUS disagrees
I ALWAYS have a gun on me, so usually when I get confronted by law enforcement, no matter what I'm doing, I try to get away, and if that doesn't work, I try to wrestle them. Works like a charm. Even if there are seven cops, I can usually out fight them and live to agitate I mean protest another day.
We can't have constructive conversations about this until everyone agrees to some basic facts.
1. (and foremost) ICE are not law enforcement. It is not in there job description to interact with anyone, under any circumstances, unless they have a FEDERAL warrant for an individual who's citizenship is in question.
Everything they are doing in any of the cities they are in is illegal.
Not believing that does not make your opposing opinion correct.
2. So far, the protests have been peaceful UNLESS they were led to violence by the illegal actions of ICE.
3. Trump sending federal agents (ICE, National Guard, etc) WITHOUT the consent of the mayor and or governor is illegal.
4. Renee Good DID NOT drive at anyone with her car.
5. Pretti was not brandishing his gun. It was holstered and was registered and he had a permit to carry it (yes, even to a protest, even to a place where there are federal agents).
6. ICE has been detaining legal immigrants and even citizens. Among them, little children.
We can't have constructive conversations about this until everyone agrees to some basic facts.
1. (and foremost) ICE are not law enforcement. It is not in there job description to interact with anyone, under any circumstances, unless they have a FEDERAL warrant for an individual who's citizenship is in question.
Everything they are doing in any of the cities they are in is illegal.
Not believing that does not make your opposing opinion correct.
2. So far, the protests have been peaceful UNLESS they were led to violence by the illegal actions of ICE.
3. Trump sending federal agents (ICE, National Guard, etc) WITHOUT the consent of the mayor and or governor is illegal.
4. Renee Good DID NOT drive at anyone with her car.
5. Pretti was not brandishing his gun. It was holstered and was registered and he had a permit to carry it (yes, even to a protest, even to a place where there are federal agents).
6. ICE has been detaining legal immigrants and even citizens. Among them, little children.
7. Undocumented DOES NOT mean illegal.
this is pathetic.
We cant have a debate until a bunch of nonsense is accepted as fact?
Do you know how absurd this makes you look?
Lets start with number 1 in bold and if that is remotely reaonsable, carry on.
The United States Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) is a federal law enforcement agency under the United States Department of Homeland Security. Its stated mission is to conduct criminal investigations, enforce immigr...
U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, known as ICE, is one of the best known federal law enforcement agencies in the United States. Created in 2003 as part of the new Department of Homeland Security, ICE has a dual mandat...
My god. You are insufferable. Here is our original exchange.
you: “Trumps polls have cratered across the board. Even conservative pollsters like Rasmussen show he is underwater on approval for immigration, etc. Can you say it’s bad to shoot unarmed citizens in the back?”
me: “I could certainly say that if there was an example of it. I don’t deal in hypotheticals usually though.”
I then asked if there were any other circumstances worth considering besides being a random unarmed bystander shot in the back. Then you did, well, you did what harambe does. Obfuscate, dodge, change subjects, and boast of victory. Typical harambe. Not impressed.
I’ve asked the specific question about Pretti maybe 8 times to you.
It feels very relevant to this thread and our discussion to understand your stance on this specific shooting (see thread title)
Im even giving you an out and not asking you to adjudicate if it was justified. Just to state basic facts about the incident.
Was he unarmed when shot? Was he shot in the back?
If you can’t answer these very basic questions - instead vaguely deflect and insult and get mad - I have to wonder what your mental model of the debate is here? Do you not think these points are salient at all?
So you agree you changed the questions and won’t answer mine. Good to clear the air.
I’ve asked the specific question about Pretti maybe 8 times to you.
It feels very relevant to this thread and our discussion to understand your stance on this specific shooting (see thread title)
Im even giving you an out and not asking you to adjudicate if it was justified. Just to state basic facts about the incident.
Was he unarmed when shot? Was he shot in the back?
If you can’t answer these very basic questions - instead vaguely deflect and insult and get mad - I have to wonder what your mental model of the debate is here? Do you not think these points are salient at all?
The gun was across the street when he was shot multiple times in his back. Even your lord Trump said, "You have to be a stupid person" not to agree this was wrong.
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