Two More Kenyans Provisionally Suspended For Doping Violations

It's patently false to say that Ethiopia has practically no out of competition testing. They were tested MUCH more OOC by WADA leading up to the Olympics than the UK.

"WADA Discovers World Record Factory Ethiopia Does Almost No Drug Testing, Is Shocked"

That headline makes no sense, it should say something like, "Unsurprisingly, Ethiopia with no testing is a world record factory"

We at least had out of competition testing and whereabouts system.

Unlike Kenya you can't buy EPO in your local pharmacy. You also can't bribe a doctor to administer it. Its not worth their job. In the cycling team culture they brought in a doctor for the whole team.

British standards actually went down as the times were so out of touch. Rob Denmark a 13:09 runner said he was physically sick when he saw the times being run. His basic speed was better than most Kenyan and Ethiopian runners they just improved their endurance with EPO.

If we see doping how come no positive EPO results. Farah ducked out of living here because of our testing system and then suddenly improved the Kenyan way.

Where did he go Kenya then when that started to get too hot Ethiopia.

How many failed dope tests in the last few years. You are a joke. Everyone knows what's going on.

You've finished the world xc and are now working on track. Only mass joggers pay for your largely untested dopers on the roads.

Keep supporting dopers you are morally the same.

Case and point.

i got banned wrote:

imagine if you will rek, i know it will be hard but come on just try....

My ideas about who dopes comes from published WADA reports. The point is, how much weight shall I place on the value of OOC testing, if there is no precedent in the previous 25 years? I didn't try to get you banned in any thread.

I was talking about Kenyans and Ethiopians running fast, and still running fast in the 2010s, with a significant quantity of performances in the top 50 in the past decade. Honestly I don't know where you stand now -- did they slow down? Are you arguing that they are running fast because they are still doping, and avoiding tests? Or are you arguing both -- that they slowed down and they are still taking EPO and avoiding tests?

Another thread 'rekrunnered'. ☹️

Headline makes no sense wrote:

"WADA Discovers World Record Factory Ethiopia Does Almost No Drug Testing, Is Shocked"

That headline makes no sense, it should say something like, "Unsurprisingly, Ethiopia with no testing is a world record factory"

^ This! ^

[quote]rekrunner wrote:

I was talking about Kenyans and Ethiopians running fast, and still running fast in the 2010s, with a significant quantity of performances in the top 50 in the past decade.

Honestly I don't know where you stand now -- did they slow down? Are you arguing that they are running fast because they are still doping, and avoiding tests? Or are you arguing both -- that they slowed down and they are still taking EPO and avoiding tests?

[quote]ukathleticscoach wrote:

We at least had out of competition testing and whereabouts system.

Kenyan runners have slowed on track down to out of comp testing. Ethiopians are now ahead of them on 5-10km as they have limited out of competition testing. Road testing is poor out of competition hence the recent change on doping for road races.

According to rekjogger:

UK is doping despite no failed tests for EPO.

Kenyans are not doping despite numerous failed tests in just the past few years.

Runners win gold or run fast times and then decide to start doping!

yawntown wrote:

i got banned wrote:

with a positive EPO sample.....way back when it was thought that kenyans have too good a smile and nice church going not even take asprin you moran stupidities! or however canova speaks when he tries to insult all of us morans.

just remember lagat used to battle hard with goucher, then somehow he became very Mo like and STRAIGHT up dominated.

but since he is an american now he MUST be clean right? lolz

Neither the A sample nor the B sample had rhEPO.

Not entirely correct, there was some issue with the A (some even doubt this), but the B sample found nothing. However, Heredia the biggest drug supplier bragged that his epo deteriorated randomly so no A sample matched a B. The only two athletes that come to mind on this are Marion and Lagat. Wealthy enough athletes who could afford his services.

If Ngeny running 3:28 on five occasions isn't a refutation of Rekrunner's claim then I don't know what is.

Then I think you don't know what my claim is. A reminder of my claim: Africans aren't setting records like Geb and Komen in the 1990s and like El G and Bekele in the 2000s, but when you look a little deeper, say the number of top performances per decade, there are still a significant number of fast performances: In the 1500m, 14 of the top 50 all time performances are from this decade Ngeny running 5x times doesn't refute "14 of the top 50" in this decade.

Subway Surfers wrote:

If Ngeny running 3:28 on five occasions isn't a refutation of Rekrunner's claim then I don't know what is.

1 3:26.00 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 1 Roma 14.07.1998

2 3:26.12 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 1 Bruxelles 24.08.2001

3 3:26.34 Bernard Lagat KEN 12.12.74 2 Bruxelles 24.08.2001

4 3:26.45 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 1rA Zürich 12.08.1998

5 3:26.69 Asbel Kiprop KEN 30.06.89 1 Monaco 17.07.2015

6 3:26.89 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 1rA Zürich 16.08.2002

7 3:26.96 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 1 Rieti 08.09.2002

8 3:27.21 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 1rA Zürich 11.08.2000

9 3:27.34 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 1 Monaco 19.07.2002

10 3:27.37 Noureddine Morceli ALG 28.02.70 1 Nice 12.07.1995

11 3:27.40 Bernard Lagat KEN 12.12.74 1 Zürich 06.08.2004

12 3:27.52 Noureddine Morceli ALG 28.02.70 1 Monaco 25.07.1995

13 3:27.64 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 2 Zürich 06.08.2004

13 3:27.64 Silas Kiplagat KEN 20.08.89 1 Monaco 18.07.2014

15 3:27.65 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 1 Sevilla 24.08.1999

16 3:27.72 Asbel Kiprop KEN 30.06.89 1 Monaco 19.07.2013

17 3:27.91 Bernard Lagat KEN 12.12.74 2 Monaco 19.07.2002

18 3:28.12 Noah Ngeny KEN 02.11.78 2rA Zürich 11.08.2000

19 3:28.21+ Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 1 Roma 07.07.1999

20 3:28.37 Noureddine Morceli ALG 28.02.70 1 Monaco 09.09.1995

20 3:28.37 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 1 Monaco 08.08.1998

22 3:28.38 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 1 Saint-Denis 06.07.2001

23 3:28.40 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 1 Bruxelles 05.09.2003

24 3:28.41 Timothy Cheruiyot KEN 20.11.95 1 Monaco 20.07.2018

25 3:28.45 Asbel Kiprop KEN 30.06.89 2 Monaco 18.07.2014

26 3:28.51 Bernard Lagat KEN 12.12.74 3rA Zürich 11.08.2000

27 3:28.57 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 1rA Zürich 11.08.1999

28 3:28.6+ Noah Ngeny KEN 02.11.78 2 Roma 07.07.1999

29 3:28.73 Noah Ngeny KEN 02.11.78 2 Sevilla 24.08.1999

30 3:28.75 Taoufik Makhloufi ALG 29.04.88 2 Monaco 17.07.2015

31 3:28.77 Timothy Cheruiyot KEN 20.11.95 1 Lausanne 05.07.2019

32 3:28.79 Abdelati Iguider MAR 25.03.87 3 Monaco 17.07.2015

33 3:28.80 Elijah Manangoi KEN 05.01.93 1 Monaco 21.07.2017

34 3:28.81 Mohamed Farah GBR 23.03.83 2 Monaco 19.07.2013

34 3:28.81 Ronald Kwemoi KEN 18.09.95 3 Monaco 18.07.2014

36 3:28.84 Noah Ngeny KEN 02.11.78 1 Paris 21.07.1999

37 3:28.86 Noureddine Morceli ALG 28.02.70 1 Rieti 06.09.1992

38 3:28.88 Asbel Kiprop KEN 30.06.89 1 Monaco 20.07.2012

39 3:28.91 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 1rA Zürich 13.08.1997

40 3:28.92 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 1 Bruxelles 22.08.1997

41 3:28.93 Noah Ngeny KEN 02.11.78 1 München 11.09.1999

41 3:28.93 Mohamed Farah GBR 23.03.83 4 Monaco 17.07.2015

43 3:28.95 Fermin Cacho ESP 16.02.69 2rA Zürich 13.08.1997

44 3:28.98 Mehdi Baala FRA 17.08.78 2 Bruxelles 05.09.2003

45 3:29.02 Daniel Kipchirchir Komen KEN 27.11.84 1r2 Roma 14.07.2006

46 3:29.05 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 1 Bruxelles 23.08.1996

47 3:29.06 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 1rA Zürich 17.08.2001

48 3:29.08 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 1 Rieti 02.09.2001

49 3:29.10 Timothy Cheruiyot KEN 20.11.95 2 Monaco 21.07.2017

50 3:29.12 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 1 Oslo 09.07.1998

only 1 time in the top 50 since 2012 that wasnt Monaco. during the full throttle EPO days there was lots of sub 3:30 times at different meets. now its basically only at monaco's rigged 1500 that a sub 3:30 happens....must be because EPO doesnt work

ukathleticscoach wrote:

Kenyan runners have slowed on track down to out of comp testing. Ethiopians are now ahead of them on 5-10km as they have limited out of competition testing. Road testing is poor out of competition hence the recent change on doping for road races.

That's one of the theories. It will interest me if you can get beyond these hypotheses, or rule out other equally supported theories.

ukathleticscoach wrote:

According to rekjogger:

UK is doping despite no failed tests for EPO.

Kenyans are not doping despite numerous failed tests in just the past few years.

Runners win gold or run fast times and then decide to start doping!

And now, since you cannot argue against the things I say, I guess you feel the need to fabricate things I did not say.

My ideas about who dope come from official sources like WADA ADRV reports, and now AIU updates.

I never said UK was doping.

I never said Kenyans were not doping.

The claim I was challenging was that Africans were slowing down (compared to the 1990s) -- presumably because of lower doses of EPO triggered by better testing. There was no exception in this claim about the Monaco track producing faster times. As you have taken the trouble to verify and confirm, East Africans are still clearly producing a significant number of all time fast performances. With respect to "EPO doesn't work" -- I don't know -- I don't know which of these top-50 performances were under the influence of EPO, nor if it worked, so would not like to comment one way or another beyond saying -- I don't know. NOTE: If I remove duplicate performances, and count just athletes producing the top-50 performances, the evolution becomes starker -- more East Africans athletes are producing top-50 performances: 1990s: 4 (1 Kenyan; 2 North Africans; 1 Spaniard) 2000s: 5 (3 Kenyans; 2 North Africans) 2010s: 8 (6 East Africans; 2 North Africans)

i got banned wrote:

only 1 time in the top 50 since 2012 that wasnt Monaco. during the full throttle EPO days there was lots of sub 3:30 times at different meets. now its basically only at monaco's rigged 1500 that a sub 3:30 happens....must be because EPO doesnt work

☹️ wrote:

Another thread 'rekrunnered'. ☹️

lolz, so many over the last 2 years have become "wREKed" for sure, just remember he is a IT hobby jogger, so really what the hell does he know about running?

All these articles show only one thing : that journalists write without knowing anything, and invent a lot of not correct things. Of sure, was not Joyce Chepkurui to say in the interview that was training partner of Florence, and probably all the infos came from the article of Standard, where the level of specific athletic ignorance of the journalists can be frequently registered.

I say again : since I was the coach of Florence from 2008, she lives in Iten, I stay in Iten about 6 months every year, I well know the problems I had (and have) for finding training partners MEN for Florence, who in all her life NEVER accepted to stay in a group with some other lady.

If these article (including the profile of IAAF) are total bullshits, you can imagine how many wrong infos you can have reading kenyan newspapers and generally articles about athletics in Kenya.

Maybe you don't understand how the world of media works today : because of internet, if there is a FAKE new in some newspaper, ALL the other newspapers write the same thing without further control, so a fake new becomes the truth for believers inb newspapers and TV.

If you want to know something about athletics, look (and know) at the NUMBERS, not at wikipedia. The IAAF has a sector dedicated to the lists (very deep), they have the full seasonal lists from 2000, there is Tilastopaja with millions of data (98% correct, 2% not), and you want to talk of athletics taking infos from wikipedia ?

Renato Canova wrote:

All these articles show only one thing : that journalists write without knowing anything, and invent a lot of not correct things. Of sure, was not Joyce Chepkurui to say in the interview that was training partner of Florence, and probably all the infos came from the article of Standard, where the level of specific athletic ignorance of the journalists can be frequently registered.

I posted an interview on YouTube with her earlier in this thread in which she is asked about being a training partner of Florence and she claims to train with her 'occasionally'. It also seems likely that somebody in her (Joyce's) team wrote her Wikipedia entry - which claims that they are training partners.