Official 2015 Worlds Men's 10,000 Discussion Thread

Bad Wigins wrote:

rupp-certifed saladbar wrote:

"Legal" thyroid supplementation is a wonderful thing.

No ethics.

It's not thyroid meds, or Rupp would still be doing it. They seem to have found something else.

It will be a few years before the public finds out what it is, because everyone is still too busy moaning about blood dopers from 10 years ago. Mo probably doesn't blood dope, because he fails to hang with 63 pace. Early in this race they dropped a couple of 63's, strung the field out and he was well back and hanging by a thread from being gapped.

It's all a matter of power to weight ratio. Mo has no natural speed and couldn't outkick Matt Tegenkamp at a normal weight. Abnormally low weight made all the difference.

Good point.

Bad Wigins wrote: Mo probably doesn't blood dope, because he fails to hang with 63 pace. Early in this race they dropped a couple of 63's, strung the field out and he was well back and hanging by a thread from being gapped.

Or... He's a relatively thoughtful racer and conserves energy by running somewhat even pace rather than responding to every surge, assuming sensibly that they're not going to maintain 26:15 pace.

Crazy, I know.

rupp-certified saladbar wrote:

TAA wrote:

When did Tergat ever run a 54 last lap?

Um,

https://www.runforyourlife.com.au/component/content/article/41-past-issues/405-greatest-races-of-all-times-2000-mens-olympic-10000m-final.html

Hey, when did Farah ever run 2km within a championship 10,000 at 2:40/km pace? (64.0 laps, 26:40 pace.)

When did Farah ever run the last 1km in 2:34? (61-second laps, 25:40 pace.)

Let Farah try closing in 54 off of that. Tergat and Geb did.

Farah's last K was 2:28 today.

10,000 GOAT top 5

1. KB

2. Geb

3. Tergat

4. Sihene

5. Farah

Anyone putting Farah higher on that list is probably a millennial or senile, therefore not remembering that the 10,000 used to actually feature the "world's best long distance" runners.

We are now in the weakest period the event has ever seen. Just look at the yearly world-bests at the runners picking up medals. (RUPP?!)

The fact that Mutai, Kiprop, Kipchoge, Kimetto etc etc etc never bothered to legitimately attempt the distance says it all.

Soft golds in a soft era.

Seems like Kenny B won a pathetic jogfest...

dope science wrote:

Bad Wigins wrote:

It's not thyroid meds, or Rupp would still be doing it. They seem to have found something else.

It will be a few years before the public finds out what it is, because everyone is still too busy moaning about blood dopers from 10 years ago. Mo probably doesn't blood dope, because he fails to hang with 63 pace. Early in this race they dropped a couple of 63's, strung the field out and he was well back and hanging by a thread from being gapped.

It's all a matter of power to weight ratio. Mo has no natural speed and couldn't outkick Matt Tegenkamp at a normal weight. Abnormally low weight made all the difference.

Good point.

If by 'dope science' you mean 'conjecture' and 'psuedo-science,' then yes.

rupp-certified saladbar wrote:

TAA wrote:

When did Tergat ever run a 54 last lap?

Um,

https://www.runforyourlife.com.au/component/content/article/41-past-issues/405-greatest-races-of-all-times-2000-mens-olympic-10000m-final.html

Hey, when did Farah ever run 2km within a championship 10,000 at 2:40/km pace? (64.0 laps, 26:40 pace.)

When did Farah ever run the last 1km in 2:34? (61-second laps, 25:40 pace.)

Let Farah try closing in 54 off of that. Tergat and Geb did.

So never. Thank you.

Nahda wrote:

Bubbadeeboo wrote:

A competitive 27:01 with a 54 last lap in a hot and humid 10k (to beat a 58min halfer) certainly nudges him towards GOAT status.

No it doesn't. He did none of the work. Just more sitting and waiting.

Exactly how much work did Geb do during his winning races in the 1990s?

rupp-certifed saldbar wrote:

10,000 GOAT top 5

1. KB

2. Geb

3. Tergat

4. Sihene

5. Farah

Tergat and Farah is an impossible call with their different eras. Tergat is a towering figure in athletics history and Kenyan running but Farah keeps winning.

No one sensible has Sihine ahead of Farah. No global titles, no world records, no incredible achievements at under/over distance. (Don't dispute that he is one of the best ever, sub 26:40 is serious stuff.)

englishmajor wrote:

Rather than comparing the winning time to some vague standard of fast (I know it looks cool/smart/knowledgeable to be unimpressed but I guess everyone who enjoyed the race are just idiots), here is some relevant context.

World Championship 10,000m Winning Times:

1983- 28:01

1987- 27:38

1991- 27:38

1993- 27:46 (Gebreselassie)

1995- 27:12 (Geb)

1997- 27:24 (Geb)

1999- 27:57 (Geb)

2001- 27:53

2003- 26:49 (Bekele)

2005- 27:08 (Bekele)

2007- 27:05 (Bekele)

2009- 26:46 (Bekele)

2011- 27:13

2013- 27:21

By my count, Mo's time is only slower than Bekele (who still ran 30 seconds slower than his world record). Appreciate the race for what it is, a World Championship final.

By LR´s idiot standards, Geb´s wins are really pathetic. The competition must have been absolutely worthless.

rupp-certified saladbar wrote:

the most lamentable tragedy wrote:

Apart from those two, who could you really pick out from the history of the sport with the tools to beat him? There are a small handful of other greats like Tergat and Kipchoge that would make it a race, sure, but Farah's all round ability and credentials would probably still make him favourite.

You can't be serious.

If Mo Farah had been in one of Tergat and Geb's duels, he would have been toast. 26:1x ability is something he will never have.

Well, neither had Tergat, since his PB was 26,27.

rupp-certified saladbar wrote:

zephito wrote:

I win the 10K predictions! All 3 medals.

Easiest prediction in the meet.

zephito wrote:

I'm guessing Rupp is probably on the downside of his career. Still a great 10k runner, but he would have had silver in this race 3 years ago.

No. He would have been just as maxed out, and not able to deploy a kick. Same as today. Great run, though.

Not according to Letsrun! They had Edris finishing 3rd. Not a bad guess, I suppose - he was top 10 and only missed the medals by 52 seconds.

Rupp was favored to medal before the race in 2012, at least by a lot of people. It wasn't a fluke in that sense. He's obviously not of the caliber of Bekele or Geb, but he would be competitive in most previous world finals when he's at his best (not necessarily medal, but be with the lead group up to the end). You can't say that about any other American 10k runner.

There is also the incredibly crazy idea that he WON a WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP in the slowest possible time as he has 5000 heats and final to come - why kill yourself with your first race when you have 2 more - and you get the GOLD anyway ......

Bad memory?? wrote:

rupp-certified saladbar wrote:

You can't be serious.

If Mo Farah had been in one of Tergat and Geb's duels, he would have been toast. 26:1x ability is something he will never have.

Well, neither had Tergat, since his PB was 26,27.

Yes, just a mere 20 seconds faster than the Somali Farah.

after the frist two slow laps it was a 26:50 pace in the heat. and crap air.

what was the temperature anyhow?

in the heat, only certain guys do well, rupp came a lot closer to his pb than most others in the competition.

5th with your B game ain't bad at all.

rupp can go podium if he's A gaming.

incredible running in that race.

Which would you rather have?

A. 26:27 10k PR and 0 world 10k titles

B. 26:46 10k PR and 3 world 10k titles

Re mo pushing the pace:

He did take the lead several times over the last 3k, but Kam just darted back up. He certainly wasn't just tucked in/checked-out... he was racing. I'm sure he knew he had the race in the bag when he saw how the kenyans reacted.

And lets not forget that mo was tripped up a couple times the last two laps and still defeated a guy that recently demolished everyone at world XC and has run a 58 half. Todays race was very impressive for the top 5.

Re weak fields:

As far as the slowish PRs, there are very few 10Ks held in cool weather. The championship races mo has won have included many runners with sub 3:35/12:50/26:50/60....the paris 5k a few years ago had , what, the fastest times for 3rd-7th places

While track is certainly weaker than it could be, with lots of talent going to the roads, its still very competitive (in the sense that tons of east africans attempt to become professional runners and there is a well established development system).

As far as the GOAT debate, i think it is still clearly Haile or KB, and will be unless Mo doubles again in Rio or sniffs their PRs (or even just pulling off a few shocking/dominating wins by crushing a good field from way out). Mo has tons of medals, two 3:28s, a good half and a pretty good marathon for cryin out loud.

well according to legsrun nuts they rather the former LOL

Glad to see Bad wigins n all the Mo farah haters going BERSERK tho

rupp-certified saladbar wrote:

TAA wrote:

When did Tergat ever run a 54 last lap?

Um,

https://www.runforyourlife.com.au/component/content/article/41-past-issues/405-greatest-races-of-all-times-2000-mens-olympic-10000m-final.html

Hey, when did Farah ever run 2km within a championship 10,000 at 2:40/km pace? (64.0 laps, 26:40 pace.)

When did Farah ever run the last 1km in 2:34? (61-second laps, 25:40 pace.)

Let Farah try closing in 54 off of that. Tergat and Geb did.

Your very name is an ad hominem attack. In a mere 30 seconds of digging here is another example, where you call someone a clown:

I'm sure I could continue to throw links out all day, but that is not worth my time/effort.