That's all you can do, delete my posts without writing any explanation?
Doing something like this without an explanation is very bad. I have never done anything against any rules. Others are doing it constantly. I know this post will disappear very soon. Again: very disappointing.
Deanouk wrote:Elliott had a 400 pb of 47.4 and ran 1:42.97
no record of that being in '90 & fully rested for a week
he's listed as a 48.2pb in '84 when he coud only manage a 1'45.49sb
that's a million miles from his 400 speed when running 1'42.9 - & he was likely in better 800 shape in '90 games
Nick Symmonds ran 47.5 the same season he ran 1:42.95
more nonsense
that was in a low-key meet in dublin, which looked cold & probably windy & the vid even shows he used a standing start !!!
he was in heavy training for london at the time & certainly hadn't taken 1/52 off to rest for this race
try more like mid/high-46 ability in london in a fully rested 400
Cram ran 48.1 the same season he ran 1:42.88
show where he was fully rested for 1/52 beforehand & ran it in oslo mile shape ( the day he acknowledges as his peak career day )
then for the umpteenth time
find me a 1'42 guy with a 48+ serious sb ???
The caveat to Cram's run is that he had ideal pacing for his ability and was drafted to 700m of the race
nonsense
he runs entire bend from 600 mark wide of cruz in lane 1 & no drafting
he in fact runs ~ 3m extra here
he ran the 2nd bend wide in lane 1 & at times in lane 2
that's an extra 3m minimal
so he ran 806m in 1'42.88 with advantage of 0.5s drafting extra from 400 - 600 ->
1'42.88 * ( 800/806 ) + 0.5 ->
1'42.6
this does not include the at least 3 or 4 tenths irretrievably lost in going thru in high-50 compared to high-49 as any experienced observer expected
that's the "canova" principle" - from mo's 26'46 - time lost in unenforced slow laps can't be all made up in remainder of race
something which Symmonds and I would suspect Elliott never had in their respective sub 1:43 performances
get a clue
nick ran too slow a 1st lap didn't get much real drafting
ideally run following fast pace & not loitering at back he shouda run in london
~ 1'42-mid
Give Cram a 50.5 first lap and then left out in front for the 2nd lap, and I suspect he runs 1:43 low
drivel
knock off something like the
extra 6m
he ran & then try again
Add to this the fact that he himself, in response to the question, 'Were you running close to your limits that night?' replied, "I think so."
he always has said oslo mile day was his peak day
but he was still good for low-1'42 in zurich
Cram had much better 1000m and 1500 pbs and ability than either Elliott or Symmonds
nonsense
elliot in '90 games was in
3'28-mid/high
shape
cram actually was in awe of his shape that day & called him easily best 1500 runner in the world
and that is the reason why he could run as fast as them over 800, despite being c.0.5 slower over 1 lap
drivel
all 3 of these guys were in worst high-46 shape in their 1'42s - symmonds slowest likely, with elliot more like mid-46 & cram more like low/mid-46
This is not a difficult concept to understand
no
it's drivel from a simple mind
Deanouk wrote:And I have told you several times that Cram liked to run even splits and stated that was the best way for him to run his best times
that's nonsense
in '85, his peak year he got into only 1 fast elite 800 & he was offered a pathetic 50.6 & even more importantly a cruz who was disinterested in a fast start & only speeded up in stretch for a poor high-50
anyone with a clue watching beforehand knew we'd been shortchanged as cruz was supposed to closely follow a pacer going thru in 49.5 - 50.0
cram has stated he only wanted to beat cruz & was only interested in following him
Thus 51.0 was perfect for someone who was a 1:42 high/1:43 low athlete
drivel
everyone expected cruz to go thru ~1s faster & cram has said he was going to stick to him - meaning high-49/50-flat
that's what we expected & were robbed of
cram's legendary endurance woudn't have failed him & he shouda been looking for low-1'42 off that
There is a reason why he never ran a 50 flat opening 400 and that is because it was too close (about 2 secs) to his 400 ability. Can't you understand this? Obviously not!
drivel
the only reason he never ran 50-flat was because that was only elite 800 he ran in '85 & all he was offered was a pathetic 50.6 & a cruz unwilling to follow any fast pace until 300m in
if he'd been offered high-49/50.0 by cruz he wouda followed or does you peabrain think he wouda let a a legendary 800 guy have an 8m lead at the bell ???
The interview said he ran it in the summer.
As for being 'fully rested' for a week beforehand, what athlete would ever take a full week out of training and racing to run any race or tt? A typically ridiculous suggestion
because fool, that is how you get an idea of an athlete's 400 ability
fully rested for ~ 1/52 & in an elite race
If Coe could run a 45.6 400 split from a standing start 90 mins after a solo 1:44.0, does that mean he was capable of 44.0 for 400m fully rested as your fairy tale of 46.5 for Cram implies? Of course he couldn't
only a fool coud come up with that nonsense
it was not a standing start, he was still moving
it cost him maybe 1/2 of his flying 0.7/0.8s advantage -> ~ 46.0 open
& fatigue of earlier run probably a few tenths, maybe 0.3 - 0.4s, bringing him back to
45.6/45.7 open 400 rested
only a fool woud accuse the coe who got hammered in his 46.7pb by khasheef of having 44.0 ability
Cram ran a 47.6 leg in September/October 84. Although he only ran 3:33 that summer, that does not mean that was his top ability. He was certainly still capable of 3:31 in the right race
a tired, end of season relay probably in china with no incentive
he wasn't running for the gb relay squad in a medal race
if you take that as representive of his peak, rested 400 ability that year, you are a fool
A 47.6 leg (perhaps with drafting) is worth 48.3 for 400m open, which fits in exactly with a 48.1 ability. It adds no credence to your nonsense
utter drivel
only a fool coud believe cram had same 400 ability in '84 when capable of no better than 1'45-flat v '85 when capable of low-1'42
try more like low/mid-46 ability in '85
The ramblings of a clown.
Fact 1: - Cram's stated 400 pb is 48.1.
Fact 2: - Ryun's fastest ever 440 time was a relay split of 46.9. Despite running several more in 67, not always winning, he ran no faster than 47.0
Fact 3: - Cram is on record as stating he runs best of even splits. 50 low would have been suicidal for a man who could only run 48 flat for 400m.
Fact 4:- Cram is also on record as stating that he was at his limits when running 1:42.88 in 85.
Fact 5:- There has never been any suggestion by athletes or the IAAF that the track in Florence was short. There were concerns about the electronic timing failing, but never any suggestion the track was short. This is a myth that you are trying to perpetuate.
Fact 6: - Coe's 800 WR was ratified by the IAAF.
None of your inane ramblings and manipulation of variables that cannot be proven are going to change the facts above.
Deanouk wrote:
The ramblings of a clown.
Fact 1: - Cram's stated 400 pb is 48.1.
Fact 2: - Ryun's fastest ever 440 time was a relay split of 46.9. Despite running several more in 67, not always winning, he ran no faster than 47.0
Fact 3: - Cram is on record as stating he runs best of even splits. 50 low would have been suicidal for a man who could only run 48 flat for 400m.
Fact 4:- Cram is also on record as stating that he was at his limits when running 1:42.88 in 85.
Fact 5:- There has never been any suggestion by athletes or the IAAF that the track in Florence was short. There were concerns about the electronic timing failing, but never any suggestion the track was short. This is a myth that you are trying to perpetuate.
Fact 6: - Coe's 800 WR was ratified by the IAAF.
None of your inane ramblings and manipulation of variables that cannot be proven are going to change the facts above.
Fact 7: The track in Florence is fast because it is surrounded by trees!
He's the third worst driver behind Pre and Van Damme.
Deanouk wrote:
VENTOMANIAC wrote:coe broke more world records but he was only just ahead of cram and the records were softer at the time
morcelli gained 3-4 seconds with epo in the early 90s
enabling him to smash the record down to 3-27
el g gained a bit more with his more potent ped cocktail
I agree with your analysis of Morceli and EL G.
I personally think Coe's solo 3:31 off 52.4/1:49.1 opening and his unevenly paced 3:29.7 in 86 are slightly superior to Cram's 3:29.6 & 3:46.3 WR runs.
Coe really should have brought the 1500 record down to 3:28 before Cram's Nice run.
Wow another ignorant person crying EPO without evidence.
lol like Morcelli would get busted when there was no test
Deanouk wrote:The ramblings of a clown
drivel from a moron
Fact 1: - Cram's stated 400 pb is 48.1
NOT a pb
it's a training run 400 with no date & no context of how much rest/preparation beforehand
Fact 2: - Ryun's fastest ever 440 time was a relay split of 46.9. Despite running several more in 67, not always winning, he ran no faster than 47.0
again fool, not looking at context
he was 18y when he ran it
he acknowledges his peak was at 20
there is no record of him being 20y behind in any other relay & he likely just cruised around in 3rd gear for the win
Fact 3: - Cram is on record as stating he runs best of even splits. 50 low would have been suicidal for a man who could only run 48 flat for 400m
more nonsense
he ran just 1 elite 800 in '85 so he woud have no clue
& he didn't run even splits even there
he ran ~ 3m extra 1st lap in ~ 50.9 & 3m in 2nd lap for 1'42.8
taking into account the extra distance he ran
50.6 / 51.6
those are NOT even splits & that was in a tactical 800
Fact 4:- Cram is also on record as stating that he was at his limits when running 1:42.88 in 85
seeing as he ran 1'42.2 considering the extra ~6m raun, that is a possibility
however he has always said unhesitatingly the mile wr was his career peak day
it's likely his 800 wouda been faster if he'd run it on oslo mile day
Fact 5:- There has never been any suggestion by athletes or the IAAF that the track in Florence was short
seeing as the only 2 elite middle distance guys in top shape in coe/aouita ever ran there, there are only 2 candidates to complain & neither are ever going to
you clearly have no clue how shocking aouita's 13'04 was
There were concerns about the electronic timing failing, but never any suggestion the track was short. This is a myth that you are trying to perpetuate
nonsense
an aouita who was no 5k runner at the time, perhaps even a better 800 than 1500 guy in '83, & lucky to have broken 13'15 if he ran a perfect race, to run 13'04 there shows serious problems with track conditions
Fact 6: - Coe's 800 WR was ratified by the IAAF
more nonsense
iaaf rated 3 hand-timed wrs of 9.9 in same race which auto had as 10.03/10.08/10.14 !!!
iaaf ratified virtually everything submitted in those days
None of your inane ramblings and manipulation of variables that cannot be proven are going to change the facts above
the "facts" presented are drivel
Fact 1: - Cram's stated 400 pb is 48.1.
Fact 2: - Ryun's fastest ever 440 time was a relay split of 46.9. Despite running several more in 67, not always winning, he ran no faster than 47.0
Fact 3: - Cram is on record as stating he runs best of even splits. 50 low would have been suicidal for a man who could only run 48 flat for 400m.
Fact 4:- Cram is also on record as stating that he was at his limits when running 1:42.88 in 85.
Fact 5:- There has never been any suggestion by athletes or the IAAF that the track in Florence was short. There were concerns about the electronic timing failing, but never any suggestion the track was short. This is a myth that you are trying to perpetuate.
Fact 6: - Coe's 800 WR was ratified by the IAAF.
Cram would have had to run the entire bend on the line of lane 2 to warrant 3m extra. He never touched lane 2 on either the first or last bends. He was wide of the centre of lane 1 for most of these bends, but ran more like 2.5m extra on the first and 2m on the last. That's 4.5m extra in total, which is offset by the extra drafting he received from Cruz on the 2nd lap, which was at least 200m.
Deanouk wrote:Fact 1: - Cram's stated 400 pb is 48.1
nonsense
his pb is 49.1 in a season he ran 1'46.05
48.1 is a tt with no date or context regards to what rest/prep he had for it
Fact 2: - Ryun's fastest ever 440 time was a relay split of 46.9. Despite running several more in 67, not always winning, he ran no faster than 47.0
& he was not on anchor for every relay
running mid-pack for some & not exerting himself
he was never 20y behind on anchor in '67
Fact 3: - Cram is on record as stating he runs best of even splits
fool
he only ran 1 elite 800 in '85 so he has little/no clue about splits
you ignored his converted 1s split differential
50 low would have been suicidal for a man who could only run 48 flat for 400m
utter drivel
he ran ~ 50.6 if accounting for extra distance
50-low wouda been no problem for a guy in low/mid-46 shape that day
Fact 4:- Cram is also on record as stating that he was at his limits when running 1:42.88 in 85
nonsense
he has always said mile was best shape of his life
that means he wouda been in better 800 shape that day as well
Fact 5:- There has never been any suggestion by athletes or the IAAF that the track in Florence was short
learn to read fool
neither coe or aouita were going to complain
There were concerns about the electronic timing failing, but never any suggestion the track was short. This is a myth that you are trying to perpetuate
drivel
short track is conclusion from coe & aouita's run
there is also sabia who also had a magical 800 in aouita's meet
Fact 6: - Coe's 800 WR was ratified by the IAAF
what part of your peabrain didn't comprehend iaaf recognised anything back then ??
did you not comprehend the nonsensical 3 hand times of 9.9 given as 10.03/10.08/10.14 all ratified as "= wr"???
Cram would have had to run the entire bend on the line of lane 2 to warrant 3m extra
nonsense
lanes are 1.22m wide
just running inside of line will offer ~ 3m
He never touched lane 2 on either the first or last bends
utter drivel
his L foot is on the lane line at 31.8s
He was wide of the centre of lane 1 for most of these bends
nonsense
he ran those 2 bends at/on the line
but ran more like 2.5m extra on the first and 2m on the last
nonsense
he ran ~ 3.1m extra on 1st & ~ 2.9m on last
That's 4.5m extra in total
no
it's 6m
which is offset by the extra drafting he received from Cruz on the 2nd lap, which was at least 200m
no
it's only partly offset
he ran
1'42.11
for the extra 6m distance
add back 0.5s for drafting to 600m ->
1'42.6
then account for factor he was nearly 1s too slow on 1st lap, throwing away 0.3/0.4s because off too slow a pace ->
1'42.2 / 1'42.3
in a perfect race paced to the bell & solo last 400
i woud knock at least 0.2/0.3s off that for his oslo mile day when he was at his absolute peak ->
1'41.9 / 1'42.1
Holy crap you two really need to find new hobbies.
Is this babble ever going to stop? What sort of conclusion do you guys expect to come to except what appears to be mutual insanity?
Do you really expect to be taken seriously?
The other week you had Cram at 1:42 mid ability at best. Now that's gone down to 1:41.9. LMAO.
A bit like Ryun going from 3:28 a few years back to 3:24.1 when I last checked.
Euro sceptic wrote:Do you really expect to be taken seriously?
it's cold hard analysis compared to your drivel
how did your peabrain avoid noticing cram ran 6m extra in his 1'42.88 ???
The other week you had Cram at 1:42 mid ability at best. Now that's gone down to 1:41.9. LMAO
learn to read moron
i've always maintained cram was in low-1'42 shape in zurich, not a big claim considering he hammered a cruz who ran 1'42.4 that year
i've added his peak shape was oslo mile day when he raved about his form quite obviously
that shape was 1'42-flat +/- 0.1s compared to zurich for anyone without a peabrain
A bit like Ryun going from 3:28 a few years back to 3:24.1 when I last checked
learn to read moron
he was in ~ 3'28 shape in '66
in '67 he was in
~ 3'24.1/3'24.2
ventolin^3 wrote:
it's cold hard analysis compared to your drivel
A cold hard analysis relies on, you know, facts. Facts such as what Cram or Ryun actually ran. Anything beyond that is speculation. Could Cram have broken 1:42? I personally think not, but I suppose it COULD have been possible. Could Ryun have run 3:24? I think you're literally the only person in the world that believes that, but again, it's speculation on both ends.
However, you continually suggest that your "cold hard analysis" is based on facts, when in fact, it isn't. Cram's 800 PR is not 1:42.00. Was he tired when he ran 1:42.88? Did he run extra? Were his splits uneven? Maybe. But you cannot say to within .1 seconds how much the collective "errors" affected his race.
Also, apologize for Carl Lewis. you've already lost enough respect from this thread, actually admitting you were wrong for once would be a big step in the right direction.
ventolin^3 wrote:
how did your peabrain
ventolin^3 wrote:
learn to read moron
ventolin^3 wrote:
for anyone without a peabrain
ventolin^3 wrote:
learn to read moron
Also, if you weren't such a dick and insistent on the idea that the times your calculator spit out are indisputable facts, people would actually appreciate your input.
ventolin^3 wrote:
drivel
short track is conclusion from coe & aouita's run
there is also sabia who also had a magical 800 in aouita's meet
That track was fast because of the trees. Extra oxygen and all. You moron.
The Dingo wrote: Could Cram have broken 1:42? I personally think not, but I suppose it COULD have been possible
you learn nothing
a leg weary nijel ran 1'41.73 with some wide running & brutal heat
he couda run
low-1'41
that day in a fully rested 800 in temperate weather
Could Ryun have run 3:24?
very likely
it's
low-3'24
I think you're literally the only person in the world that believes that, but again, it's speculation on both ends
like i was only person who used help of a calculator & called
3'28 mo
However, you continually suggest that your "cold hard analysis" is based on facts, when in fact, it isn't[/quote[/]
yes it is
[quote]Cram's 800 PR is not 1:42.00. Was he tired when he ran 1:42.88? Did he run extra? Were his splits uneven? Maybe. But you cannot say to within .1 seconds how much the collective "errors" affected his race
clearly you didn't see his races live on tv at the time or watched them enough on youtube
he was ~
1'42-flat shape in oslo
Also, apologize for Carl Lewis. you've already lost enough respect from this thread, actually admitting you were wrong for once would be a big step in the right direction
drivel
find me where iaaf have him ever listed as ever setting the outdoor lj wr...
ventolin^3 wrote:
you learn nothing
a leg weary nijel ran 1'41.73 with some wide running & brutal heat
he couda run
low-1'41
Speculation, not fact (also, irrelevant).
Could Ryun have run 3:24?
very likely
it's
low-3'24
Speculation, not fact.
like i was only person who used help of a calculator & called
3'28 mo
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut. When you make a couple thousand predicts you're bound to get one right. You will ride that one accurate prediction for the rest of your time here.
clearly you didn't see his races live on tv at the time or watched them enough on youtube
he was ~
1'42-flat shape in oslo
I just rewatched it. I disagree, I think he ran it perfect and couldn't have run faster under any circumstances. Prove me wrong (with facts please). You cannot PROVE it, because he never did, it's all speculation (granted some has more merit than others).
Obviously he could have run faster, but by how much, who knows? You bolding your calculator's answers does not make them facts. I'm guessing he was in ~1:42.5. Does that make me right?
The Dingo wrote:
like i was only person who used help of a calculator & called3'28 mo
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut. When you make a couple thousand predicts you're bound to get one right. You will ride that one accurate prediction for the rest of your time here.
clearly you didn't see his races live on tv at the time or watched them enough on youtube
he was ~
1'42-flat shape in oslo
I just rewatched it. I disagree, I think he ran it perfect and couldn't have run faster under any circumstances. Prove me wrong (with facts please). You cannot PROVE it, because he never did, it's all speculation (granted some has more merit than others).
Obviously he could have run faster, but by how much, who knows? You bolding your calculator's answers does not make them facts. I'm guessing he was in ~1:42.5. Does that make me right?
Love the squirrel analogy. Never heard that one before!
Here's a direct quote from an interview with Cram published on October 5th 1985 in AW: -
Interviewer: - (Regarding the 1:42.88 Zurich race against Cruz)..."Were you running close to your limits that night?"
Cram: - " I think so. I'm never really going to set the world alight at 800 and I don't think I'll ever be capable of running a world record time....I knew Cruz would be going out in his usual way and I was just determined to hang on to him and if I could get past him in the last 200 fair enough."
World record breaking athletes aren't renowned for their modesty and Cram wouldn't have said such things had he believed he could run a second faster as Venty does.
But obviously we should all bow down before the master intellect that is Ventolin, who clearly knows more than the elite athletes themselves.