ventolin, what do you think bayi's 3:32.2 (unofficial) leading the whole way with a 1:51.8 split(!!) would have been worth even and with rabbits? could he have broken 3:30 in that race?
ventolin, what do you think bayi's 3:32.2 (unofficial) leading the whole way with a 1:51.8 split(!!) would have been worth even and with rabbits? could he have broken 3:30 in that race?
Well, we know that ventolin would give him almost 2 seconds per lap if drafted perfectly at 3:30 pace. So, ventolin would give him at least 5 seconds with perfect drafting through 3 laps, and then evening out the splits he'd give him about another 2 seconds faster, for a total of 7 seconds faster, meaning ventolin would give him about 3:25.2. I am not joking. It's all in this thread.
It's worth keeping in mind that the 1:51.8 split is itself misleading as it was done with a 54.4 first lap, meaning that Bayi's splits were 54.4, 57.4 (1:51.8)and 58.6 (2:50.4)before closing in 41.8 (55.7 pace).
jennifer cruz wrote:
Well, we know that ventolin would give him almost 2 seconds per lap if drafted perfectly at 3:30 pace. So, ventolin would give him at least 5 seconds with perfect drafting through 3 laps, and then evening out the splits he'd give him about another 2 seconds faster, for a total of 7 seconds faster, meaning ventolin would give him about 3:25.2. I am not joking. It's all in this thread.
Don't forget how easy it looked to some guy who watched a youtube video once. That's a good second per lap right there.
Thinker wrote:
jennifer cruz wrote:Well, we know that ventolin would give him almost 2 seconds per lap if drafted perfectly at 3:30 pace. So, ventolin would give him at least 5 seconds with perfect drafting through 3 laps, and then evening out the splits he'd give him about another 2 seconds faster, for a total of 7 seconds faster, meaning ventolin would give him about 3:25.2. I am not joking. It's all in this thread.
Don't forget how easy it looked to some guy who watched a youtube video once. That's a good second per lap right there.
Yes, and especially because ventolin has seen so much "horseflesh" on satellite that he is to be deferred to regarding all of his observations...
jennifer cruz wrote:Well, we know that ventolin would give him almost 2 seconds per lap if drafted perfectly at 3:30 pace. So, ventolin would give him at least 5 seconds with perfect drafting through 3 laps, and then evening out the splits he'd give him about another 2 seconds faster, for a total of 7 seconds faster, meaning ventolin would give him about 3:25.2. I am not joking. It's all in this thread.
learn to read moron
i have never proferred more than 1s/lap
& the "control" woud be a wabbit to the bell as all standard time trials on the circuit are
that is 2.75s
try again
jennifer cruz wrote:
Thinker wrote:Don't forget how easy it looked to some guy who watched a youtube video once. That's a good second per lap right there.
Yes, and especially because ventolin has seen so much "horseflesh" on satellite that he is to be deferred to regarding all of his observations...
yes morons
i watched that race live on tv
greatest 1500 race ever in terms of excitement & final clocking
best meet for distance races i ever saw & ever been:
- kipkurgat running 1'43.91 solo on a windy day when wr was 1'43.7ht - on the circuit with wabbit to 400 & enclosed, windless stadium, kipkurgat wouda been close to 1'43-flat
- jipcho outkicking foster in 13'14.4 when wr was 13'13.0 - this was a race not a time-trial & iron-man foster only put his ball-basting surge mid-race - if that race had been on the circuit & run controlled, hard, gun-to-tape, those 2 wouda smashed the wr & virtually certainly gone under 13'10
ventolin^3 wrote:
the actual perfect drafting for 3:30 races is nearly 2s/lap
If you have never "proferred" more than 1 second per lap, then why did you write the above statement? You either believe what you write or you don't.
jjjjjjj wrote:ventolin, what do you think bayi's 3:32.2 (unofficial) leading the whole way with a 1:51.8 split(!!) would have been worth even and with rabbits? could he have broken 3:30 in that race?
working with splits offered :
54.4, 57.4 (1:51.8)and 58.6 (2:50.4)before closing in 41.8 (55.7 pace)
those splits flattened out ->3'31.0
knock off 2.75s for wabbit offering 1s/lap drafting to bell ->
3'28.3
which is about the same as cram/aouita's best runs converted, so he was a comparable 1500 talent to that calibre of athlete
jennifer cruz wrote:If you have never "proferred" more than 1 second per lap, then why did you write the above statement? You either believe what you write or you don't.
because near 2s/lap woud require the 2 homunculi to be virtually inseparable of all body parts, 1 in front of the other
in real life, the separation is never less than ~ 5' : 2.5' backstride of wabbit + 2.5' frontstride of elite, meaning 5' separation of torso
you work with perfect figure & whittle down
ventolin^3 wrote:
3'28.3
which is about the same as cram/aouita's best runs converted, so he was a comparable 1500 talent to that calibre of athlete
Remember, if he was indeed born in June, 1953, Bayi was only 20 years old at that time. And running a solo 3:32.
It was reputed to be somewhat windy that day, so surely your one second per lap drafting cannot be set in stone no matter the wind...I would believe it to be less on a calm day and more on a windy day.
jennifer cruz wrote:Remember, if he was indeed born in June, 1953, Bayi was only 20 years old at that time. And running a solo 3:32
noah was 20 when he ran 3'43
It was reputed to be somewhat windy that day, so surely your one second per lap drafting cannot be set in stone no matter the wind...I would believe it to be less on a calm day and more on a windy day.
it woud make very little difference unless wind was approaching 7m/s ( the speed of the athlete )
a wind of maybe +2 or 3m/s on one stretch & -2 or -3 on the other woudn't have any significant effect on drafting effect - the effect woud be on the direct pushing/slowing effect of athlete in the stretches ( ignoring the curves which mureika says is very difficult to quantify, but that likely more or less cancels itself out )
using same method as used to determine drafting, consider a guy who runs say a solo 3'50 for 1600m ( so perfect 4 laps - 1500m is lopsided with 3.75 laps ), so no drafting factor
in perfectly windless conditions :
- it is 3'50.0
with X wind on one stretch of 100m ( it is 84m on modern tracks, but use 100m for simplicity ( ole tracks were nearer 100m stretch ) ) & -X on the other, a 3'50 clocking with :
1m/s ->~ 3'49.8
2m/s ->~ 3'49.3
3m/s ->~ 3'48.4
if it had been a windless run
'2 homunculi'
Who are you calling a homunculi?
Nobody knows for sure. You are speculating.
Noakes writes in "Lore of Running":
One of the first scientists to study the influence of wind speed on running performance was the great British physiologist Dr. Griffiths Pugh, whose work on effects of altitude on athletic performance is among the classic contributions on that topic. Pugh performed four different studies designed to measure how wind speed and the gradient of the running surface influence the oxygen cost of running (1970). His studies showed that the extra cost of running into a facing wind increased as the square of the wind speed. Thus the oxygen cost of running into a 66-km/hr head wind increases by 30 ml/kg/min. Similarly, running up an 8% incline increases the oxygen cost of running by about 20 ml/kg/min.
"Pugh also showed that at the speeds at which middle-distance track events are run (6 m/s or about 67 seconds per 400m), about 8% of the runner's energy is used in overcoming air resistance. But by running directly behind a leading runner (or drafting) at a distance of about 1 m, the athlete can save 80% of that energy. In a middle-distance race this would be equivalent to a savings of about 4 seconds per lap. However, Pugh considers it unlikely that in practice the following athletes would ever be able to run as close to the lead runner to benefit to this extent. By running slightly to the side of the lead runner, the following runner would probably benefit by about 1 second per lap.
"Another researcher to study the benefits of drafting was Californian Chester R. Kyle (1979). His calculations suggest that at world-record mile pace, a runner running 2 m behind the lead runner would save about 1.66 seconds per lap, which generally confirms Pugh's estimations.
eh ?
what speculating ?
read your own link - 1s/lap
ventolin^3 wrote:
no one is disagreeing with you - it has nothing to do with tables when an athlete coasts a lot of the race & still runs a fabulous time
most recent example is ramzi in the prelim in peking
he ran an absurd last lap there for something overall like 3:32/3:33
he ran this clocking off only running hard for a lap ( may have been only last 300m - have to check vid )
i hope you do not believe that that means all he was worth was 3:32/3:33 that day ( obviously he did it on drugs, but that is another matter ) ?
he looked in at worst 3:28 shape that day
you disagree ?
I took the splits for that run at the time. It was a pretty stupid performance by Ramzi, as I think it got many tongues wagging as to what he was on. Not sure it's quite worth 3:28 flattened out, but nonetheless a highly impressive turn of speed with a lap to go.
55.7, 59.6 (1:55.3), 58.9 (2:54.2), 38.7 (53.0 last 400)
last 800 ~ 1:52.9
last 700 ~ 1:37.6
last 400 ~ 53.0
last 300 ~ 38.7
last 200 ~ 25.8
last 100 ~ 13.3
ventolin^3 wrote:
eh ?
what speculating ?
read your own link - 1s/lap
If that is what you determine, automatically, after reading the link, then this explains why your "close enough for government work" approach leads you to your conclusions.
jennifer cruz wrote:If that is what you determine, automatically, after reading the link, then this explains why your "close enough for government work" approach leads you to your conclusions.
i have never read noakes nor heard of those guys
their work gives same conclusions as mine using mureika's wonderful calculator ( the definitive tool for wind aspects ) & method suggested by someone else on another board
if this consensus is not valid enough for you then i'm afraid you are an idiot - when the answer stares you in the face, you don't need a further 100 studies to confirm it
& here appears to be link you got noakes quote from :
http://users.erols.com/jimsue/running/drafting.htmLee Evans didn't think Quincy Watts had as much talent in the 400 as himself or Harry Reynolds. I am just saying...
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/profile-he-just-keeps-running-away-quincy-watts-1539222.html
thanks for the high quality series of posts on this page.