posted under another "name" wrote:
well, this truth guy is likely "skuj" an anti lydiard canadian "coach" who pulls this baseless crap on pro lydiard people. could be "wellnow". i don't mind opinions but i do mind attacks and wish both would go away.
You should address that paranoia of yours.
You've got to be joking!!! This really proves you have NO idea what you're talking about.
I've noticed you posted some pictures of Cerutty (under different names); but I didn't see Halberg in any of them...
By the way, I don't this it's wellnow. He can be a pain in a neck but he's at least pretty straight with his opinion.
I'd say it's Skuj.
third time on this thread wrote:
Right, this is exactly the case. I have read Snell's book too and didn't get it for some reason, maybe because I had seen it all somewhere else and I am more interested in the distance events. Anyway sure I have Halberg's book too, "A Clean Pair of Heels", which is interesting reading. Either in that one or Elliott's book or both there are numerous photos and stories of Halberg running with Elliott, at Portsea and with the direction of Percy Cerutty.
In fact there is more in these books about Halberg training at Porsea then there is of him training with Lydiard, then sure he says that Lydiard was his coach, which I already said. The point is that he got just about everything he did from Cerutty, trotted it back to Lydiard, then said that Lydiard was his coach. Haha. Yeah why didn't he tell Cerutty at the start, then Cerutty would have booted him out of the camp.
I see Halberg as being ungrateful, and he was a "go along" person, meaning he gave Lydiard the recognition because he lived close to him, and didn't want to be on bad terms with Lydiard, knowing if he didn't say everything that Lydiard wanted that there would be tension between them. Everyone who knows even a little about Lydiard knows that this was the case. Finally there are many more world records, something like 30 or 40, that came out of Cerutty's Portsea, than Lydiard got from using other people's methods and then taking the credit.
Percy Cerutty on the other hand was a very UNIQUE person, who did things that no one had ever done before. He didn't care about trying to steal things from others and had no time for that. He trained the ATHLETES, and had no time for coaches, who couldn't do what they were telling the runners. Did Lydiard ever run up sandhills? NO. Cerutty did.
This is the biggest load of crap I've ever heard. For one, I've never seen a picture of Halberg training with Elliot, let alone training in Portsea. The only one I've seen of these two running together is the one mile race in Dublin--a RACE.
Cerutty produced 30~40 world records? Is that the way you guys count in Finland? Or Cerutty "took credits" for the record people he didn't even coach ran? And Cerutty ran up sand dune makes him a better coach than Lydiard? Is that how Vasala came up with an idea that Lydiard is a shitty liar? Amazing...
Wellnow usually posts as wellnow. I don't think he's that chicken-shit. I'd say Skuj.
posted under another "name" wrote:
well, this truth guy is likely "skuj" an anti lydiard canadian "coach" who pulls this baseless crap on pro lydiard people. could be "wellnow". i don't mind opinions but i do mind attacks and wish both would go away.
Yep, it's Skuj
Yeah, definitely Skuj.
Whether you like wellnow or not he shows consistency and intergrity with his posts as far as I've been able to tell. Skuj is another matter.
I tried to sign in as "Nobby" but it didn't let me. I guess I'm not me any more...or maybe I've been banned! So now I'm "NobbyH"...at least for now.
I decided to chip in in defence to my favorite arch-rival, Jon Orange, AKA wellnow. I have exchanged some heated discussions, on AND off message board, with Jon. I've come across a lot of anti-Lydiard posts here--probably more than anywhere in the entire world (particularly after Arthur passed away). 99.9% of them never reveal their identity. That's fine; they have their way. I think it's chicken shit but that's just me. I have maintained my position as; "If you have something to say, you know where to reach me." Jon is, so far, the only one who had come forth and gave me a piece of his mind.
Jon, or wellnow, seems to have a very unique training ideas--a little bit off the wall it may be though I do not completely disagree or dismiss. And, regardlss of how many people complain or mock about it, he maitained his stance. I really do respect that. And, to the best of my knowledge, he never pretended to be someone else just to back up his idea (I've been wrong before...); and that, to me, is integrity. Sometimes it's pretty obvious that the guy is wearing a half-a$$ mask to be a joker but continue to be that way anyways just to pi$$ you off. Although he identify himself as wellnow, we all know who wellnow is and I really don't think Jon would throw a cheap shot like that.
As for Lydiard, did he exaggerate things? Yes. Mostly to make his point (but not necessarily always! ;o)). Would that make him a lesser man? Well, in my dictionaly, no. His contributions and accomplishments should speak for itself and, in Finland, receiving of the White Cross should show that. And the accusation of him making money? You can count him in the way back in the pack when it comes to "making money off running" crowd. Well, in later years, he was coaching this young girlin Wellington. He would drive down to Wellington from Auckland over the weekend to "coach" her. Her parents offered him to pay him for his generousity. He simply told them that, if he could join them for dinner when he's in Wellington to coach her, that would be plenty. I know some people bitched about us charging to attend his clinic on his last lecture tour, he passed away far from a rich man while those people bitched about paying $20 to meet with his living (well, at the time) legend. And, because he didn't run up the sand dune, that would make him a lesser coach than Cerutty? Well, you can put Cerutty on the top of the greatest coach's list then. Good on him. Im sure Cerutty would be very happy.
Anyways, wellnow ain't throw cheap shots like this; I'd give my word, for whatever it's wort, for it.
Oops! I just saw I spelled "dictionaly" instead of "dictionary"... Emgarrassing... You know how Japanese is...
third time known as the truth wrote:
I've never seen a picture of Halberg training with Elliot, let alone training in Portsea.
Well then you don't know much do you.
Cerutty produced 30~40 world records? Is that the way you guys count in Finland?
Yes even the almost most ignorant people know this. And I am not from Finland.
Cerutty ran up sand dune makes him a better coach than Lydiard?
Yes that is one of the reasons. Lydiard was not able to run up a sand dune. Sad but true. Which reminds me of another lie, that Lydiard often bragged Halberg had never lifted a weight in his life.
Herb Elliott, who probably did not even know that Lydiard existed, stated in his book that he saw Halberg lift a 60 pound weight above his head with his withered arm, a testament to the strength Halberg developed at the Portsea camp. Lydiard had his head up his ass. Another thing is that Lydiard said he always had time for Cerutty, but conversely, Cerutty would have nothing to do with Lydiard.
white lie wrote:
the truth: wrote:You obviously have no life based on the amount of posts you write here. Accept the truth, move on.
Here once again, a pot calling a kettle black (or is this someone else too?). You realize you (the truth) have posted 5 times more (at least) than HRE. If I don't have life, I would have actually counted and posted the number so you won't accuse me of "lying".
Hey, but then again, HRE actually posted a quote from printed publication. You, on the other hand, keep repeating "Read the book, moron!"
Or you have even calculated my posts? Of course I have to answer when someone like you writes to me so that I can tell the truth.
I have posted a direct quote which I have translated in English. I can put it here in Finnish too if I want, but you probably don´t understand it.
You still seem to be mad about the error you made when you claimed that another writers writing was posted by me. Try to get over it.
white lie wrote:
If Vasala claimed Lydiard wasn't very good at coaching individuals, then he (Lydiard) must have coached some individuals in Finland and he failed badly. Who were they? Or Vasala just decided not to mention ANY of those "proof"? Well, that's convenient, isn't it... So much for "the truth"...
By the way, you're not doing a very good job with this foreign accent thingie--it tends to come and go. Be a bit more consistent. Also, it's kind of hard to spread your posting when you're typing at a cyber cafe, isn't it? Or wait, maybe we just don't realize because you're under several different names...
You are wrong because that Vasala´s opinion about Lydiard´s coaching abilities came based on Vasala´s training camp in New Zealand years after Lydiard´s visit in Finland. It´s in the book of Vasala.
And your another assuming isn´t true either, I´m not typing at a cyber cafe. Also, I have posted under 2 different names here, first as a "the thruth" and after I noticed my writing error, as a "the truth:". Try to get over from your error, dude.
posted under another "name" wrote:
well, this truth guy is likely "skuj" an anti lydiard canadian "coach" who pulls this baseless crap on pro lydiard people. could be "wellnow". i don't mind opinions but i do mind attacks and wish both would go away.
No, I´m not any of this and I have nothing against Lydiard. You seem to have something against to me, and all I have done is telling the truth about Lydiard´s lies.
Hdhehduf wrote:
Lydiard began bragging because he needed to sell his
Method, he needed to make a living and his rothman's sponsorship ended.
The thing that frustrated me the most about lydiard was that he felt all other systems were less than his. he visited lmya in 1992 and found out that they already had a system, that Spanish too.
He never said that their systems were different but were variations of his system, taking credit. He never even claimed these things many times but had garth gilmour pump up his ego when he wrote of him in his book.
I agree with you.
Voice of Ray-san wrote:
Surely it's neither "skuj" nor "wellnow". They may each have there own issues, but at least at some level they are coherent, and consistent.
I have told the truth consistently.
white lie wrote:
Wellnow usually posts as wellnow. I don't think he's that chicken-shit. I'd say Skuj.
You are wrong again. I´m not "Skuj".
Again, try to get over of making a complete fool of yourself in that post where you thought another writer was me.
You are wrong.
Also you are wrong.
HRE wrote:
Whether you like wellnow or not he shows consistency and intergrity with his posts as far as I've been able to tell. Skuj is another matter.
Where I haven´t been consistent? I have consistently and with integrity told the truth, even when I´m not as great in English. All I have said, it´s not only my opinion, those are opinions of Pekka Vasala in his book. You can´t claim that I´m wrong, because I´m just telling thoughts of a person who really was with Arthur and have seen the truth about him. I have to remind you over and over again for this, it´s odd that you still don´t get it.