More than "One" FM runner is mentioned in the article. The person you described with the panic attack is Mackenzie Carter. This is at about 40% into the article.
Later in the article (at about 80%), Christie Rutledge is described. She had very serious injuries related to Bone Mineral Density and amenorrhea. Much of it she had concealed, but her parents noticed and Bill Aris did not allow her on the FM XC team her senior year. She blamed herself, so technically I suppose she is not complaining. But it is an example of how high school age kids can get on a trajectory and then decide to take it to a more extreme level. How much is the coach to blame? It's somewhat hard to say, I think. The coach is trying to have runners training hard and be fast (light weight), but not go as far as very high injury risk.
My comments on the article are for the berkeley version, which is not paywalled.
Not sure what your point is. Rutledge had an eating disorder since middle school all the way to college. She praised Aris for not allowing her to race because of it.
All of you up in arms over what some of these HS track coaches have done should go by your local HS football practice. For some reason behavior of football coaches is 100% accepted since it is building strong men and it is all for the team
All of you up in arms over what some of these HS track coaches have done should go by your local HS football practice. For some reason behavior of football coaches is 100% accepted since it is building strong men and it is all for the team
Abuse being the cultural norm in a different sport does not mean we should tolerate abuse in track and field or the Olympic movement.
All of you up in arms over what some of these HS track coaches have done should go by your local HS football practice. For some reason behavior of football coaches is 100% accepted since it is building strong men and it is all for the team
Abuse being the cultural norm in a different sport does not mean we should tolerate abuse in track and field or the Olympic movement.
I did not say it should be accepted I just said go by a football field what you think you know about what is going on in a few track programs is tame by football standards. And in football it is acceptable. In fact to be looked upon as a good football coach you have to a bit of a bully
The article about FM reminded me of that cringe-worthy "Stotan" BS that Aris talks about. Spartans were a militaristic slave-based caste system who initiated their child soldiers by having them kill an unarmed slave.
Well, I do see why some high school coaches might idolize such a system....
Abuse being the cultural norm in a different sport does not mean we should tolerate abuse in track and field or the Olympic movement.
I did not say it should be accepted I just said go by a football field what you think you know about what is going on in a few track programs is tame by football standards. And in football it is acceptable. In fact to be looked upon as a good football coach you have to a bit of a bully
All the pansies who complain about a few track coaches (when most of them all act similarly at some point), is NOTHING compared to football. Hours of practice in 90 degree sun, screaming at and shoving players. No water is allowed because that means you're weak. The list goes on. Track kids are coddled compared to football.
Do you have no decency? This is a beloved coach that has passed away and left everyone that he has coached and mentored heart broken this is insensitive and ridiculous. You don’t even know him. Do not talk about something that you have no history with it is embarrassing for yourself and insanely hurtful to others. You are getting your information from outside articles and not primary sources if you have ever talked to him, his wife or his runners you would be a lot more knowledgeable about this topic so who do you think you are saying someone should rot in hell when this man has changed people’s lives. Absolutely disgusting.
True. We must keep things in check when someone has died. My condolences.
For those that observed kranicks from an opposing team for approximately 15 years, can you answer the following to enlighten those of us NOT on the team.
1) Why were saratoga xc athletes NOT allowed to talk to other runners AND the team tent was always isolated from other teams. This is not normal. All other teams had setups near other teams at xc meets.
2) why did kranicks take dual meets so seriously? No one else did. Art yelled just as intensely during a dual as he did at a big invite or post season.
3) why did saratoga girls stop going to manhattan invite? They did well for years. Then, stopped. Was it due to NOT wanting to face FM girls when they were dominant? Did art truly fear losing?
4) for indoor/outdoor track, why did saratoga (especially girls) run multiple events at State qualifiers. It seemed like technique was to push out runners from the fast heat to increase chance of saratoga runners making State. For example, only 3 girls can make 3k. Yet, saratoga would enter 6 girls. Then, later, some girls doing another event. What was the strategy?
5) In recent years, outdoor track has a super standard. If you hit a time, you automatically make states. But, art would still have his athletes run hard. This prevented others from making State unless 2nd place at large time which is very quick. This is unsportmanlike.
6) I could continue. Clearly, a highly dedicated coach couple. Many loved them. Please understand that there will not be much love from others because little respect and love was shown by kranicks to other athletes and coaches in real time. Sure, once they beat you, they were friendly (especially linda). But, not much before competition.
I didn’t say it was smart or not risky. Im saying if he did this 40 years ago I have no problem with him coaching. Same thing if he had a drunk driving arrest 40 years ago .
Make sense?
My apologies for criticizing Safe Sport if USATF was the one banning him. I thought the whole point of Safe Sport was to have an independent body determine suspensions. Can someone explain to me why USATF acted here.
i thought safe sport handled all these things for them.
Your response significantly misrepresents how the SafeSport process works and, frankly, undermines the seriousness of athlete protection. Any matter that does not involve sexual misconduct is first referred to the appropriate National Governing Body (NGB) for review. If the NGB’s legal counsel determines that further investigation is warranted, the matter is then referred to an independent investigative firm. These investigations are not casual or informal — they are extensive, time-consuming, and often involve dozens or even hundreds of interviews, along with thousands of pages of documentation and evidence review. This process takes time because it is thorough, deliberate, and designed to protect all parties involved while ensuring due process. Once completed, a formal report with findings and recommendations is issued to the NGB for action. To suggest that this system is a “joke” or ineffective is not only inaccurate — it diminishes the very protections that exist to safeguard athletes. Anyone who truly understands the scope and seriousness of these investigations would never dismiss them so casually. We would all be in a far better place if more people treated athlete safety and well-being with the gravity it deserves. The federal framework and SafeSport exist for a reason. Anyone who has ever experienced or supported someone through abuse knows how critical these protections are — and how devastating it would be if they didn’t exist. I hope this clarifies the process and reinforces why accuracy and responsibility matter when discussing these issues. Do better!
I reported a coach for abuse to safesport and the state, both pointed the finger at each other and said you are SOL. So, you know, our results may vary compared to you. Safesport in particular talks a good game, but they acted like i was the first person to ever actually call them about the 200 videos we all have to watch.
While small peanuts compared to the physical abuse making a club team (kinetic running) with the sole purpose of making the HS kids run year round in direct violation of the state’s rules is something that was allowed to go on. You could be part of kinetics unless you were on their high school team and visa versa
Do you have no decency? This is a beloved coach that has passed away and left everyone that he has coached and mentored heart broken this is insensitive and ridiculous. You don’t even know him. Do not talk about something that you have no history with it is embarrassing for yourself and insanely hurtful to others. You are getting your information from outside articles and not primary sources if you have ever talked to him, his wife or his runners you would be a lot more knowledgeable about this topic so who do you think you are saying someone should rot in hell when this man has changed people’s lives. Absolutely disgusting.
True. We must keep things in check when someone has died. My condolences.
For those that observed kranicks from an opposing team for approximately 15 years, can you answer the following to enlighten those of us NOT on the team.
1) Why were saratoga xc athletes NOT allowed to talk to other runners AND the team tent was always isolated from other teams. This is not normal. All other teams had setups near other teams at xc meets.
2) why did kranicks take dual meets so seriously? No one else did. Art yelled just as intensely during a dual as he did at a big invite or post season.
3) why did saratoga girls stop going to manhattan invite? They did well for years. Then, stopped. Was it due to NOT wanting to face FM girls when they were dominant? Did art truly fear losing?
4) for indoor/outdoor track, why did saratoga (especially girls) run multiple events at State qualifiers. It seemed like technique was to push out runners from the fast heat to increase chance of saratoga runners making State. For example, only 3 girls can make 3k. Yet, saratoga would enter 6 girls. Then, later, some girls doing another event. What was the strategy?
5) In recent years, outdoor track has a super standard. If you hit a time, you automatically make states. But, art would still have his athletes run hard. This prevented others from making State unless 2nd place at large time which is very quick. This is unsportmanlike.
6) I could continue. Clearly, a highly dedicated coach couple. Many loved them. Please understand that there will not be much love from others because little respect and love was shown by kranicks to other athletes and coaches in real time. Sure, once they beat you, they were friendly (especially linda). But, not much before competition.
Peace
These are the silliest complaints ever. So a coach wanted his team to run hard at dual meets? Wanted them to run fast and hit time standards. Oh, the humanity.
Stick to the legit stuff like giving kids medicine without parental approval.
This announcement is an embarrassment for the USATF and sends the wrong message to all coaches and student-athletes. The Kranicks were the most caring, giving running coaches that I ever met. Running was their passion and their lives.
40 plus years, he really only crossed the line twice - the car and the B12 vitamins - everything else is just hardnose obsessive coaching but if you were a Saratoga student you knew exactly what you were signing up for. Practicing out of season? More teams do it then don’t . Making someone run when hurt? If you coach a high school team you know that a week into practice 20% of the team says they are too hurt to run. If you let everyone sit you won’t have a team. There is always the risk that one kid out of hundred might actually be hurt . He made a lot of enemies by not budging from his standards and that’s the reason he is banned but also the reason he coached national champion
As someone who ran against Saratoga when I was in HS, we all made fun of them because they acted like a cult. Of all the horrible things the Kranicks did, teaching their athletes horrible sportsmanship was among the worst. We all thought they were the biggest cornballs because they wouldn’t talk to anybody and they acted so weird. We suspected abuse or strange rituals going on. They would overtrain kids into the ground and whoever didn’t get injured and quit would become decently fast.
they had some good boys runners but would mostly focus on the girls team for some weird reason. Art would be way harder on the girls than the boys. Everyone thought he was a creep.
of course the Saratoga school district didn’t care what they were doing to the athletes as long as they kept winning. The lesson here is that not everything is about winning, especially if you have to cheat and force kids to run to “win.” It’s literally high school running it’s just not that serious. After talking with others it does seem like most of Saratoga’s girls peaked in HS. Besides tooker, what other Saratoga runners are competing at a high level past college?
Buddy, they didn’t just make kids run when hurt. They disobeyed doctors orders saying kids shouldn’t run and would threaten to kick them off the team if they didn’t run or race. And they made kids run 7 days a week even out of season or they would kick them off the team. They were insanely abusive. I remember watching them SCREAM at the girls team over literally nothing. They were nutjobs and everyone in section 2 knew it for decades. It’s just that in general no one pays attention to XC or track. It’s not like football or basketball. That’s really the only reason they got away with it for so long.
I can’t believe you’d say it’s Oka that he tied a rope around a high school girls waist. this is absolutely unsafe and in no world would that “help” a runner improve.
I knew these coaches and my teams competed against them. I saw first hand how they spoke to athletes and treated them. they are both insane f**ks and should have been banned so long ago. it’s a joke that the district and federation is only now banning them. blood on their hands too.
Since I’m sure there are lot of NY state HS Xc fans on here, what happened to the FM girls and Bill Aris? I mean they won 11 of 12 national titles. That’s amazing.
Is Bill Aris still coaching? Why aren’t they dominant like they once were?
Is the super intense culture of “We are one of the best in the country or bust” motto no longer a thing that works or is allowed?
There's really nothing to report on. I ran HS and D1 in NY, was teammates with several FM (and Saratoga) kids and none of them had anything good to say about him. He ran the kids into the ground for his own ego, the kids were shot by the time they got to college, and other big schools around the country caught up to and surpassed what FM was doing for training.
Then all of the reputation hits started coming in, I know a few now-HS coaches who said through the grapevine that parents basically don't want their kids running for him. And now he just cares about his grandson on the team. They're a dead program.
Someone mentioned in another thread that Bill’s son coaches a local running program for 10-13 year olds and overtrains them.
Can anyone share some insight on the Kinetic track club that the Kranick's operated?
Obviously it existed so they could practice all year long but it was also needed since NXN requires club teams instead of actual high school teams due to a lot of state athletic association rules.
Did it cost to be a member of Kinetic?
What if you were a fast runner for Saratoga and couldn't afford the fees?
What if your family couldn't transport you to club practices every day?
Did they really practice 365 days a year?
Did Kinetic participate in USATF or AAU meets?
Were there other costs for uniforms or travel?
I'm trying to see if Kinetic was a money grab or if it was truly intended as a training and competition mechanism for Saratoga Springs.
There's other local teams that operate clubs and charge significant fees and there's no ROI in those programs. I know there's a team that charges $425 for a six week summer program and also has another coach that charges $175/month for coaching services.
What is people's opinion on high school teams operating these youth clubs on the side? It seems odd to me. My kids competed against youth clubs in the NYC area and I don't think any of them had a direct link to a specific high school program.
He still has the section 2 record for the 3000m. He was Saratogas best boys distance runner in the last 20 years. Ran at Syracuse and is trying to make the Olympics now.