You are pointing on Ingebrigtsen's weak championship record, Imby.
For him, it's relatively weak.
Still much stronger than Coe's championshipü record at 800m.
Again for you, Imby:
78 EC 3
80 OG 2
82 EC 2
83 WC dnq
84 OG 2
86 CG dnc in final EC 1
87 WC dnc
88 OG dnq
90 CG 6
compare that to Ingebrigten's 1500m championship record
18 EC 1 (age 17)
19 WC 4
21 OG 1
22 EC 1 WC 2
23 WC 2
24 EC 1 OG 4
Ingebrigtsen's championbship record at 1500m is much much better than Coe's championship record at 800m. That's not debatable, it's a fact.
To list Coe's records or Golds in other events shoes just how stupid you are. Please do it one more time.
Clsrke was a runner in 1956 (over one year older than when Ingebrigtsen was 4th at the world champs). He just wasn't good enough to qualify for the Olympics. He competed in 6 track finals at the weak (but for him very important) commonwealth games. Not a single Gold medal. The best he could achieve at the Olympics was a bronce medal. Much much weaker than what Ingerbigtsen has done in the 1500m at the championships (not to talk at all from the 5000m).
For you, Coe and Clarke are pure and enormous losers. As well as runners like Ovett, Cram, Walker. Even Bekele has lost 4 global track finals. What a loser.
Sorry - your obsessive rant was too boring to read all the way through.
Obviously, the 1500m is the most prestigious event in distance running and setting a WR would be huge. For the 5000m, doubling back in championships and winning Gold Medals, is more than good enough to make the claim that he’s the best 5000m runner. Sooner or later, he’ll run in a paced 5000m and go for the WR.
He knows that Jakob is the best in the 5k, Army just has beef with me because I've been trying to get him to explain why Kerrs superior 800m PB compared to Jakob hasn't resulted in more than four sub 3:30 times for Kerr.
I don't have that "beef". Your point is simply irrelevant.
You are pointing on Ingebrigtsen's weak championship record, Imby.
For him, it's relatively weak.
Still much stronger than Coe's championshipü record at 800m.
Again for you, Imby:
78 EC 3
80 OG 2
82 EC 2
83 WC dnq
84 OG 2
86 CG dnc in final EC 1
87 WC dnc
88 OG dnq
90 CG 6
compare that to Ingebrigten's 1500m championship record
18 EC 1 (age 17)
19 WC 4
21 OG 1
22 EC 1 WC 2
23 WC 2
24 EC 1 OG 4
Ingebrigtsen's championbship record at 1500m is much much better than Coe's championship record at 800m. That's not debatable, it's a fact.
To list Coe's records or Golds in other events shoes just how stupid you are. Please do it one more time.
Clsrke was a runner in 1956 (over one year older than when Ingebrigtsen was 4th at the world champs). He just wasn't good enough to qualify for the Olympics. He competed in 6 track finals at the weak (but for him very important) commonwealth games. Not a single Gold medal. The best he could achieve at the Olympics was a bronce medal. Much much weaker than what Ingerbigtsen has done in the 1500m at the championships (not to talk at all from the 5000m).
For you, Coe and Clarke are pure and enormous losers. As well as runners like Ovett, Cram, Walker. Even Bekele has lost 4 global track finals. What a loser.
He will never read your post. He hates having his ignorance exposed.
You're right in one thing - I lost interest in reading it. Vertical columns of figures are a signal that nothing interesting or useful is being said.
Yes, nobody is arguing that Jakob have had a better career than the best 1500 runners, because they've had longer careers and more chances to win trophies and run fast times.
You said it's not the length of career but more talent that made the best 1500 runners the best, despite the fact that someone like El G didn't win the Olympics until his third attempt and they didn't start winning global golds until they were the same age that Jakob is now. So length of their careers seems pretty relevant to me in this case.
There's plenty of reasons for why he runs the 1500 the most, to make use of his speed before he loses it to age, because it's the premiere track event, because he likes the challenge, because he wants to become the best overall runner and not just the best runner in one event. Considering he himself says he's better at the 5k than the 1500 then I'm pretty sure he knows where his talents lie.
He's 20th all time without having made a serious attempt at running a fast time, but I'm sure you think someone who runs 7:17 for the 3k can't run faster than 12:48 for the 5k.
I don't think that. But I have yet to see that in what you say is his "best" event he has yet to record a time of any significance. You can't make him better than he is by saying he could run faster - as in the future. If he does, he does - but until then it is mere conjecture.
There are plenty of runners who have long careers who don't accomplish much, and others who have relatively short careers - like Elliott - who leave a mark for future generations. Longevity isn't the same as talent. If you're going to compare Ingebrigtsen with other runners the only thing we have to go by is their achievements. The future doesn't count. Ingebrigtsen could incur an injury that doesn't repair or simply burn out - as quite a few talented athletes do. Or someone better could come along.
It's his best event because he's unbeaten in it in his senior career and he can win any type of race, slow or fast, compared to the 1500 where he has fewer viable strategies to win. It's not complicated.
You're free to compare him with whoever you want, but you're just wasting your time by saying he's not as good as the best 1500 runners ever since nobody has claimed that Jakob is the best ever in the 1500.
Yes, nobody is arguing that Jakob have had a better career than the best 1500 runners, because they've had longer careers and more chances to win trophies and run fast times.
You said it's not the length of career but more talent that made the best 1500 runners the best, despite the fact that someone like El G didn't win the Olympics until his third attempt and they didn't start winning global golds until they were the same age that Jakob is now. So length of their careers seems pretty relevant to me in this case.
There's plenty of reasons for why he runs the 1500 the most, to make use of his speed before he loses it to age, because it's the premiere track event, because he likes the challenge, because he wants to become the best overall runner and not just the best runner in one event. Considering he himself says he's better at the 5k than the 1500 then I'm pretty sure he knows where his talents lie.
He's 20th all time without having made a serious attempt at running a fast time, but I'm sure you think someone who runs 7:17 for the 3k can't run faster than 12:48 for the 5k.
I don't think that. But I have yet to see that in what you say is his "best" event he has yet to record a time of any significance. You can't make him better than he is by saying he could run faster - as in the future. If he does, he does - but until then it is mere conjecture.
He has run 12:48.45 - at age 20. This is a time of significance with whom he has beaten many of the fastest of all time. Including the WR holder and Olympic champion to come two months later.
Nobody is giving him credit for things he hasn't done. But he HAS done something over the distance. Unbeaten in the last four seasons where he has become European champ, two times World champ and Olympic champ while beating with some ease some of the fastest runners in history. This alone puts him in the top 10 all-time over the distance.
Why he isn't racing the distance more often? Ask him. Maybe he still doesn't feel to be capable to break the WR?
But definitely he just concentrates more on the 1500m while being young. His two older brothers both were European champions over the distance (he has done it three times). It's some family affair. And to achieve his big goal to set all the WRs from 1500m up to the HM (?) (which I'm pretty sure he will not be successful in) he has to get the 1500m WR very soon (I think he will fail already here - but 4th all-time also is fantastic). He still has many years to break the 5000m WR. For any fan of athletics and especially distance running, it's a pleasure to follow this enormous ambitious (some would say: arrogant) young man what he can achieve in the years to come.
For sure, fan of athletics doesn't include you, who obviously is praying for some failure of him in any race (must have been like christmas for you yesterday).
I don't think that. But I have yet to see that in what you say is his "best" event he has yet to record a time of any significance. You can't make him better than he is by saying he could run faster - as in the future. If he does, he does - but until then it is mere conjecture.
He has run 12:48.45 - at age 20. This is a time of significance with whom he has beaten many of the fastest of all time. Including the WR holder and Olympic champion to come two months later.
Nobody is giving him credit for things he hasn't done. But he HAS done something over the distance. Unbeaten in the last four seasons where he has become European champ, two times World champ and Olympic champ while beating with some ease some of the fastest runners in history. This alone puts him in the top 10 all-time over the distance.
Why he isn't racing the distance more often? Ask him. Maybe he still doesn't feel to be capable to break the WR?
But definitely he just concentrates more on the 1500m while being young. His two older brothers both were European champions over the distance (he has done it three times). It's some family affair. And to achieve his big goal to set all the WRs from 1500m up to the HM (?) (which I'm pretty sure he will not be successful in) he has to get the 1500m WR very soon (I think he will fail already here - but 4th all-time also is fantastic). He still has many years to break the 5000m WR. For any fan of athletics and especially distance running, it's a pleasure to follow this enormous ambitious (some would say: arrogant) young man what he can achieve in the years to come.
For sure, fan of athletics doesn't include you, who obviously is praying for some failure of him in any race (must have been like christmas for you yesterday).
Nobody is giving him credit for things he hasn't done? It seems to me that some are annointing him unbeatable already.
Everybody has a learning curve even Jakob. Even Mo lost his first 10k championship attempt. Jakob may one day win major 10k championships but this weekend showed what some of us have been saying. The fastest 3000 meter runner, regardless of how he trains, won't necessarily become a great 10k runner until they learn how to race it, not just train for it.
I don't think that. But I have yet to see that in what you say is his "best" event he has yet to record a time of any significance. You can't make him better than he is by saying he could run faster - as in the future. If he does, he does - but until then it is mere conjecture.
There are plenty of runners who have long careers who don't accomplish much, and others who have relatively short careers - like Elliott - who leave a mark for future generations. Longevity isn't the same as talent. If you're going to compare Ingebrigtsen with other runners the only thing we have to go by is their achievements. The future doesn't count. Ingebrigtsen could incur an injury that doesn't repair or simply burn out - as quite a few talented athletes do. Or someone better could come along.
It's his best event because he's unbeaten in it in his senior career and he can win any type of race, slow or fast, compared to the 1500 where he has fewer viable strategies to win. It's not complicated.
You're free to compare him with whoever you want, but you're just wasting your time by saying he's not as good as the best 1500 runners ever since nobody has claimed that Jakob is the best ever in the 1500.
No one claims he's the best ever 1500 guy? That's news. Doesn't he walk on water? As for the 5k, he hasn't proved he can win "any kind of race". Slower, tactical races - yes. But when has he faced a 12.40 pace or better? It will likely find him out.
It's his best event because he's unbeaten in it in his senior career and he can win any type of race, slow or fast, compared to the 1500 where he has fewer viable strategies to win. It's not complicated.
You're free to compare him with whoever you want, but you're just wasting your time by saying he's not as good as the best 1500 runners ever since nobody has claimed that Jakob is the best ever in the 1500.
No one claims he's the best ever 1500 guy? That's news. Doesn't he walk on water? As for the 5k, he hasn't proved he can win "any kind of race". Slower, tactical races - yes. But when has he faced a 12.40 pace or better? It will likely find him out.
The only way to find out is for him to hop on a DL 5k, but he won't because he would be exposed. Otherwise he would have gone for it in Brussel, instead of going for a "fun run" in Copenhagen that made him look "brave", when in reality he just ducked the 5k field in a fast race.
Moreover, look at how Katir ran away from the entire field off a 13:10 race, and how he got smoked in a 12:40 race even though he ran a PR of 12:45 and Ingy is even more fast-twitched (though not fast twitched enough to be great at 1500m championships, ironically). I predict the same fate for Ingy.
If Jacob went for 10K gold - could he even lose that race?
His top desire at the Olympics or World Championships is to win the 1500m, and he usually loses. So of course he could lose the 10000m. Just as Aouita could have lost against 27:10 runners. Jakob could lose against 26:25 runners. Now would he? That is a different question, and everyone is just speculating.
It's his best event because he's unbeaten in it in his senior career and he can win any type of race, slow or fast, compared to the 1500 where he has fewer viable strategies to win. It's not complicated.
You're free to compare him with whoever you want, but you're just wasting your time by saying he's not as good as the best 1500 runners ever since nobody has claimed that Jakob is the best ever in the 1500.
No one claims he's the best ever 1500 guy? That's news. Doesn't he walk on water? As for the 5k, he hasn't proved he can win "any kind of race". Slower, tactical races - yes. But when has he faced a 12.40 pace or better? It will likely find him out.
Just casually making it a 12:40 race? How many men have run 12:40 or faster? 8 of them, 5 of them currently active, none of them have beaten Jakob. Do you think there's a reason for why Cheptegei, Gebrhiwet, Kejelcha, Aregawi or Kiplimo never tries making it a fast race against someone who runs 3:26 in the 1500 and 7:17 in the 3000?
No one claims he's the best ever 1500 guy? That's news. Doesn't he walk on water? As for the 5k, he hasn't proved he can win "any kind of race". Slower, tactical races - yes. But when has he faced a 12.40 pace or better? It will likely find him out.
Just casually making it a 12:40 race? How many men have run 12:40 or faster? 8 of them, 5 of them currently active, none of them have beaten Jakob. Do you think there's a reason for why Cheptegei, Gebrhiwet, Kejelcha, Aregawi or Kiplimo never tries making it a fast race against someone who runs 3:26 in the 1500 and 7:17 in the 3000?
It's the equivalent to running a race in the region of 3:27 for the 1500. Ingebrigtsen has yet to run a truly fast 5k. If his competitors make him then we will see whether he has truly got it over that distance or whether he's just been lucky with slower races, which clearly suit him.
This post was edited 37 seconds after it was posted.
Just casually making it a 12:40 race? How many men have run 12:40 or faster? 8 of them, 5 of them currently active, none of them have beaten Jakob. Do you think there's a reason for why Cheptegei, Gebrhiwet, Kejelcha, Aregawi or Kiplimo never tries making it a fast race against someone who runs 3:26 in the 1500 and 7:17 in the 3000?
It's the equivalent to running a race in the region of 3:27 for the 1500. Ingebrigtsen has yet to run a truly fast 5k. If his competitors make him then we will see whether he has truly got it over that distance or whether he's just been lucky with slower races, which clearly suit him.
No it's not, there's been 24 times under 3:28 ever ran and 9 times under 12:41, and only Bekele has done it more than once.
You're not going to see times like those being run in championship finals any time soon, the Ethiopians even try to collaborate and pace each other in global finals to beat Jakob and they can't do it.
If Jacob went for 10K gold - could he even lose that race?
I like the question, shame the thread tilted into another thread of ideological warfare.
I don't think the 7.17 3000m matters as much as the athlete and their physiological strengths and weaknesses. It also doesn't matter as much as what a "championship 10k" means in terms of execution.
If Jakob ran a championship 10km where they just rattled off laps around 66 seconds (27.30 pace) without much variance and things only started moving with 1200m to go then it's doubtful he's crossed his threshold and my guess would be he has enough power to run 2.54 for the final 3 laps (something like 60,59,55) and he's hard to beat (this would be a 27.06 winning time).
But there are plenty of scenarios he doesn't and the two races he struggled in all season (the Paris 1500 final and the Copenhagen HM) exposed the exact scenarios. When the pace fluctuates and he crosses his threshold at any point, he isn't great at actively recovering (coming back down under it, dealing with the "damage" and pushing back on at his maximum capacity). We have seen this at the start of a race where he wasn't able to recover enough off a 54.8 opening lap (Paris) and we saw this in the middle of a race (Copenhagen) where he wasn't able to recover from a 13.33 second 5000m.
And yes, it's a skill that does exist and we have seen before. In 1997 Daniel Komen ran a 5.00 2000m from 2-4km and then ran his last km in 2.35 to win the world title. In 1988 John Ngugi led through 1000m in 2.42.75, ran the next 2000m in 5.13 to blow the race open, ran a 2.40km to get to 4000m in 10.36 and then re-upped again in the final km to finish in 13.11 (2.35km). Obviously those paces Jakob could probably still handle (maybe Komen gives him trouble in that 97 final), but you get that point - this is the scenario in terms of style of race where the worlds only 7.17 guy cannot win. The final and most obvious one is the 2003 final from Paris - 13.52 at 5000m, second 5000m in 12.57 (!!!) - at some point that change in pace for that extended period of time destroys Jakob. So actually, plenty of scenarios.
This post was edited 11 seconds after it was posted.
It's the equivalent to running a race in the region of 3:27 for the 1500. Ingebrigtsen has yet to run a truly fast 5k. If his competitors make him then we will see whether he has truly got it over that distance or whether he's just been lucky with slower races, which clearly suit him.
No it's not, there's been 24 times under 3:28 ever ran and 9 times under 12:41, and only Bekele has done it more than once.
You're not going to see times like those being run in championship finals any time soon, the Ethiopians even try to collaborate and pace each other in global finals to beat Jakob and they can't do it.
He has yet to run a 5k race in a time anywhere near the fastest, Mr Number Cruncher Bean Counter.
No it's not, there's been 24 times under 3:28 ever ran and 9 times under 12:41, and only Bekele has done it more than once.
You're not going to see times like those being run in championship finals any time soon, the Ethiopians even try to collaborate and pace each other in global finals to beat Jakob and they can't do it.
No it's not, there's been 24 times under 3:28 ever ran and 9 times under 12:41, and only Bekele has done it more than once.
You're not going to see times like those being run in championship finals any time soon, the Ethiopians even try to collaborate and pace each other in global finals to beat Jakob and they can't do it.
He has yet to run a 5k race in a time anywhere near the fastest, Mr Number Cruncher Bean Counter.
I think he can live with that when the majority of people ahead of him on the all time list, including the world record holder, are currently active and he keeps beating them in championship races.
He has yet to run a 5k race in a time anywhere near the fastest, Mr Number Cruncher Bean Counter.
I think he can live with that when the majority of people ahead of him on the all time list, including the world record holder, are currently active and he keeps beating them in championship races.
So not having the fastest times or being anywhere near the wr doesn't matter for the 5k, only in the events where he does have those times. More blind fandom. I don't think that wr will be any time soon.
I think he can live with that when the majority of people ahead of him on the all time list, including the world record holder, are currently active and he keeps beating them in championship races.
So not having the fastest times or being anywhere near the wr doesn't matter for the 5k, only in the events where he does have those times. More blind fandom. I don't think that wr will be any time soon.
Yeah, it matters. I've said that fast times matter for the 1500 to determine who the best is right now, since all the top runners have the same amount of global golds. That's not the case in the 5k where Jakob is unbeaten, so there's no argument to be had over who's the best in that event.
And the other difference is that the fastest runners in the 5k are still active, while nobody who's faster than Jakob in the 1500 is still active, and Jakob makes them look like amateurs when he faces them in the 5k.
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