How Long till Kipyegon gets popped?

No obviously not Armstronlivs. But the concepts are the same. Track and Field is merely theatre, entertainment, like a concert if you like. Maybe everybody is doping. Maybe no one is. I don't care anymore. I am merely a spectator like all of you out there. Spectators are of almost no consequence to anyone but themselves. We're all just a noisy blur in the background who help pay the the athletes bills. What any of these people do is none of my business.

Stop lying. As you no doubt know, I've pointed out to Armstrong a number of times that a 20 year old Herb Elliott would be running sub 3:30 today. He replies that shoes and tracks make no difference, which is the same as Rekrunner saying EPO makes no difference.

Highlighting the massive doping problem in places like Kenya, researching and posting important information that had never been posted here - such as Aouita's doctor being busted for supplying dozens of cyclists withe EPO, or Beyer and Straub's coach busted for supplying kids with illegal peds - or presenting detailed comparisons looking at the decline in Kenyan performances. This is not the same as stating constantly that every runner of the last 40 years has been doped. To say that Faith Kipyogen is likely doped is different to accusing Max Burgin or Cameron Myers of being doped and you know it. Coming back from having a kid and turning in superhuman performances at the age of 29 would be hard to believe in the first place, before you take into account 250 doping busts and her country a whisker away from being banned last year.

Armstrong is entitled to his views and he may be right. But it's fair to ask why he bothers with the sport if everybody is a fake and it's been like this for decades. This is different to trying to clean up the sport which has confirmed rampant doping problems in particular geographic regions due to unique financial incentives.

I was a fan; I am no longer - because I am realist. "Fans" today aren't. They are either naive or in denial.

I need to correct you: I don't say that shoes and tracks make no difference - they do, although in the case of the shoes not as much as some here think - but doping makes a greater difference, and has done so for several decades. I also say you can't get to the top of the sport now without it, but that currently the worst offenders are the Kenyans and E Africans, although it will also be found in other countries and at every level, from schools to seniors. Those aren't my views alone; I have taken them from various experts in antidoping, some of whom I know personally.

However I would agree with those who say I am not a fan of the sport; I was once but it is impossible to support that which has been thoroughly corrupted. I choose to present a view here that is in opposition to those who refuse to see what the sport has become.

For someone who is not a fan you seem to spend a lot of time here. So you are not watching races - just arguing with posters on a message board? Of course, you are free to spend your time however you want.

Doping enables athletes to train harder, much harder.

I am always amused by posts in capitals - but bold as well, that's a real bonus. I follow the sport in the much the way I follow events around the world; some are inspiring and some are not. Professional running now falls into the latter category.

As long as the corruption keeps going. Then it will be back to 4:20 and “the weather was bad” “the conditions were bad” “it’s an off year” “she’s been battling injuries”

I am not surprised that you have difficulty following the arguments here when you do not understand mine.

I don't say that "anyone faster than a poorly-trained amateur 60 years ago is automatically a cheater". There will have been some natural improvement since then but the top runners in that era, while they may have had an amateur status - and thus a shorter career - typically trained very hard and according to principles followed today. They were better than you think. Yes - the modernization of shoes and tracks will make some difference but, especially in regard of the shoes, not of the order of magnitude claimed here. But what I do maintain is that for the better part of several decades doping has developed from an occasional aberration in the sport to a virtual norm that all professionals have to now adhere to or they have no chance of success at the top. Confidential athlete surveys that show the likely incidence of doping far exceeds the numbers caught confirm this. The consequence of that is that the greater magnitude of improvement in the sport in recent decades has come from doping and not from training or shoes - or even talent. The best athletes have always been talented.

None of this is unique to running. It is now to be found in all sports and virtually all ages, from schools and colleges, to championship athletes and seniors. It is now the world we live in, in which success trumps all other considerations.

If there are principles involved beyond mere entertainment then I do care - and so do others.

I watch races but as spectacular as they often are they largely confirm what I think I am seeing. It has come to resemble a circus. That is the point of view I tend to present here but the response I get unfortunately only encourages me.

I would add that I have followed other sports as well and that is what made me aware of the fact that doping has invaded all sports. The desire for the dedicated athlete to succeed results in them doing whatever it takes.

People go to circuses to be entertained. They are not thinking about if the trapeze guy is using PEDs or if the animals are mistreated.

I think it's almost certain that PEDs are widely used in the NFL or NBA. But do fans really care? Does anyone really want to see Mahomes or Curry serve a 2-year ban for doping violations? The fans don’t want that, the owners don’t want that and neither do the advertisers.

Faith Kipyegon may well be doped “to the gills” but she is still a remarkable athlete. If it was just a matter of taking enough PEDs then other women would have run 4:07 years ago. I’m not naïve. I know doping is widespread – not just in track, but in every sport, at all levels. But doping doesn’t turn a average athlete into a world-class one.

If a track athlete gets busted they get busted. Ban them for life. They took the risk knowing the consequences. But until they test positive, I will enjoy watching them perform, knowing that doping or not, they are still some of the best athletes on earth.

ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?

srsly tho i'd be curious to find out who is gene doping, or maybe not

Kipyegon will get popped in 2099 😂😂😂

Haters you can hang yourselves or go to be hell !!!!!

The time improvements atm are too widespread for it to be anything other than technology related plus nutrition and training

Wavelights , shoes , tracks , training and nutrition account for most of it imo

There is still doping which can skew the figures among a minority but the majority of what we're seeing now isn't doping related. It's simply too widespread , including the lower level athletes

Sorry but you can be a fan of the sport and still maintain honesty about it. I still follow cycling, for example, but I am no longer foolish enough to think that it is clean or that something that seems too good to be true actually is. But the thing is, by blindly celebrating doping performances, "fans" like yourself make it increasingly impossible to have any fairness or integrity in this sport. Should we have not called out the Ma's army nonsense that was going on in the 1990s? Don't we owe it to clean or at least cleaner athletes to call out superdoping performances? Kipyegon is rewriting the record books based on major PED use. It is laughable to think otherwise, and it all started when she joined the Sang training group. She is pulling a Barry Bonds. Well that is not fair to every other athlete in the sport, and the fact that there appears to be systematic doping in countries like Kenya and Ethiopia so that a few others can be competitive does not mitigate the level fraud that is taking place.

Btw, Armstrong actually tested positive for EPO in 2001, but then the test result disappeared after he made a monetary contribution to the UCI, ie a bribe. The sport did not want to lose its golden goose. Well I think the exact same thing is happening on a smaller scale in this sport. Too big to fail.

You missed that doping is also widespread. Most dopers aren't caught.

I don't watch sport to see a circus but a genuine competition.

Of course all dopers are what you describe as remarkable athletes. That's how they hope to beat other remarkable athletes, as all pro's are. Dopers include many of the most talented athletes; that is why we see so many extraordinary performances at the top of the sport. A highly talented athlete who is clean will not beat a highly talented athlete who doped. Athletes know that. So they dope.

1% of tests return a positive. We know from confidential athlete surveys amongst other sources that the numbers who dope but aren't caught far exceed that 1%. To the ambitious athlete the incentive to dope far exceeds the low risk of being caught.