I just have. Do you think the best athletes in those sports will be clean? WADA puts T and F in the same category. Clue: drugs are performance enhancing. Second clue: as only 1% of tests return a positive but confidential athlete surveys show around 50% or even higher are doping most dopers are never caught. 3rd clue: obviously doped records are now being beaten.
Great! I see I've just tapped into the mother lode of sport knowledge. Thanks for telling me you really have nothing more to say. Wouldn't want to waste too much of my time if you don't really know what time it is.
The only "whom" in your response is WADA, and they are just rule makers and host a central database. They don't really know anything about the performance side of the equation, except that about 1% of performers test positive. But from that 1% catch rate, and a survey that says 50-50 are clean-dirty, but not which is which, WADA knows that "the very best sporting performances now can't be achieved without it".
Thanks for being so clear.
The only clarity you appear to have achieved is to confirm what you already think. It has had nothing to do with what I have said.
J Ingebrigtsen has never outsprinted Matt C or C Engels. Stating J Ingebrigtsen outsprinted Matt C & C Engels is like stating Soviet Union Out Blitzed Germany. J Ingebrigtsen is not John Walker 2.0. John Walker, Matt C and C Engels, all legit 1:44.xx 800m men. If J Ingebrigtsen were a legit sub-1:45 800m man, J Ingebrigtsen would not be afraid to allow 1500m races to split 1200m slower than 3 minutes.
J Ingebrigtsen fanatics have moved away from J Ingebrigtsen breaking 1500m w.r. to now, all you gals & guys can say: there is a good chance J Ingebrigtsen will improve ...
You could argue that Ingebrigtsen beating Centro and Engels at the end of 1500s is because of his superior strength and not his sprint speed, I’ll grant you that. But I see you always making this argument “If Ingebrigtsen could run sub-1:45, he wouldn’t be afraid to allow 1500m races to split 1200m slower than 3 minutes” and it makes ZERO sense. 1:44.9 isn’t special for a world class 1500 runner, but Jakob’s 3k/5k ability is. Why in the world would he let a 1500 dawdle at damn near his 5k pace and open the door for others to beat him when he could bury them earlier, or at least dull their kicks? That’s not evidence whatsoever that he can’t run sub-1:45, it only means he knows a fast pace gives him an advantage over other sub-1:45 guys.
Even John Walker was better at 2k than he was at 800, and he ran 3:32.4 on 1:44.9 800 speed. 3:32.4 is 4.5 seconds slower than Ingebrigtsen’s PB, if you haven’t noticed. More likely than not Jakob is in that same neighborhood over 800m, just with way better endurance.
I like the point objective observer made about 800 runners not running near their PBs every time out. Anyone who’s spent a lot of time of World Athletics profiles knows that most 800 specialists over the course of a season will run, say, 1:47.2 - 1:47.2 - 1:46.0 - 1:46.5 - 1:44.7 - 1:46.4 - 1:46.5 - 1:43.1 - 1:47.8 - 1:46.0 - 1:45.8 - 1:46.8 (Clayton Murphy, 2018)—so it’s not surprising Jakob wouldn’t hit his fastest potential 800 running it 4 times in the last 4 seasons (and two of those were rounds/finals at the Norwegian championships which he won, so they hardly count for anything).
Probably the most sane response in this entire thread.
J Ingebrigtsen has never outsprinted Matt C or C Engels. Stating J Ingebrigtsen outsprinted Matt C & C Engels is like stating Soviet Union Out Blitzed Germany. J Ingebrigtsen is not John Walker 2.0. John Walker, Matt C and C Engels, all legit 1:44.xx 800m men. If J Ingebrigtsen were a legit sub-1:45 800m man, J Ingebrigtsen would not be afraid to allow 1500m races to split 1200m slower than 3 minutes.
J Ingebrigtsen fanatics have moved away from J Ingebrigtsen breaking 1500m w.r. to now, all you gals & guys can say: there is a good chance J Ingebrigtsen will improve ...
You could argue that Ingebrigtsen beating Centro and Engels at the end of 1500s is because of his superior strength and not his sprint speed, I’ll grant you that. But I see you always making this argument “If Ingebrigtsen could run sub-1:45, he wouldn’t be afraid to allow 1500m races to split 1200m slower than 3 minutes” and it makes ZERO sense. 1:44.9 isn’t special for a world class 1500 runner, but Jakob’s 3k/5k ability is. Why in the world would he let a 1500 dawdle at damn near his 5k pace and open the door for others to beat him when he could bury them earlier, or at least dull their kicks? That’s not evidence whatsoever that he can’t run sub-1:45, it only means he knows a fast pace gives him an advantage over other sub-1:45 guys.
Even John Walker was better at 2k than he was at 800, and he ran 3:32.4 on 1:44.9 800 speed. 3:32.4 is 4.5 seconds slower than Ingebrigtsen’s PB, if you haven’t noticed. More likely than not Jakob is in that same neighborhood over 800m, just with way better endurance.
I like the point objective observer made about 800 runners not running near their PBs every time out. Anyone who’s spent a lot of time of World Athletics profiles knows that most 800 specialists over the course of a season will run, say, 1:47.2 - 1:47.2 - 1:46.0 - 1:46.5 - 1:44.7 - 1:46.4 - 1:46.5 - 1:43.1 - 1:47.8 - 1:46.0 - 1:45.8 - 1:46.8 (Clayton Murphy, 2018)—so it’s not surprising Jakob wouldn’t hit his fastest potential 800 running it 4 times in the last 4 seasons (and two of those were rounds/finals at the Norwegian championships which he won, so they hardly count for anything).
Ingebrigtsen's superior endurance that you refer to begs the question of whether that superiority has been naturally achieved and that it in fact isn't really "superior". Quite a few here apparently think it wasn't.
The narrower the differential between an athlete's best 800 capability and their 800/700 splits in a 1500 the more it raises the question of doping, because it can suggest unnatural levels of endurance.
You could argue that Ingebrigtsen beating Centro and Engels at the end of 1500s is because of his superior strength and not his sprint speed, I’ll grant you that. But I see you always making this argument “If Ingebrigtsen could run sub-1:45, he wouldn’t be afraid to allow 1500m races to split 1200m slower than 3 minutes” and it makes ZERO sense. 1:44.9 isn’t special for a world class 1500 runner, but Jakob’s 3k/5k ability is. Why in the world would he let a 1500 dawdle at damn near his 5k pace and open the door for others to beat him when he could bury them earlier, or at least dull their kicks? That’s not evidence whatsoever that he can’t run sub-1:45, it only means he knows a fast pace gives him an advantage over other sub-1:45 guys.
Even John Walker was better at 2k than he was at 800, and he ran 3:32.4 on 1:44.9 800 speed. 3:32.4 is 4.5 seconds slower than Ingebrigtsen’s PB, if you haven’t noticed. More likely than not Jakob is in that same neighborhood over 800m, just with way better endurance.
I like the point objective observer made about 800 runners not running near their PBs every time out. Anyone who’s spent a lot of time of World Athletics profiles knows that most 800 specialists over the course of a season will run, say, 1:47.2 - 1:47.2 - 1:46.0 - 1:46.5 - 1:44.7 - 1:46.4 - 1:46.5 - 1:43.1 - 1:47.8 - 1:46.0 - 1:45.8 - 1:46.8 (Clayton Murphy, 2018)—so it’s not surprising Jakob wouldn’t hit his fastest potential 800 running it 4 times in the last 4 seasons (and two of those were rounds/finals at the Norwegian championships which he won, so they hardly count for anything).
Ingebrigtsen's superior endurance that you refer to begs the question of whether that superiority has been naturally achieved and that it in fact isn't really "superior". Quite a few here apparently think it wasn't.
The narrower the differential between an athlete's best 800 capability and their 800/700 splits in a 1500 the more it raises the question of doping, because it can suggest unnatural levels of endurance.
Or he's just better than 1:46 right now?
Interesting to me that you won't believe he is faster than 1:46 in the 800 because there is no data to support that yet you are raising suspicion of him doping even though there is no data on that either. Interesting.
Two weeks ago,when he ran 6x800, the two last 1.49.5, he tasted the speed. Some says that max. speed over the distance may be to slow ref. his 800 PB at 1.46.44. It is a fair indication. But we actually do'nt know how fast he can run a 800, but under 1,45.5 probably not. And some refer to EGs 1.46 high at the last 800 in the Athens Olympics. His sub 40 at the last 300 when he ran 3:26 is out of reach for Jakob. So he has to rely on 55.0 every 400. But this year? Not so, I think. But his ability to be better month after month in summer may indicate a litte bit over 3:27. So not this year. And may be never.
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
Reason provided:
Spelling
"In 2012, Leif Inge Tjelta tested Jakob Ingebrigtsen, who was 11 years old at the time. He describes the talent he displayed in 2017 as "extraordinary".
Five years later, Ingebrigtsen has taken the athletics track by storm. He has broken the world record for 16- and 17-year-olds in the "dream mile," won two gold medals in the U20 European Championships, and surpassed the qualifying standard for the 3000-meter steeplechase in the World Championships.j
Telta has extensive experience in testing and monitoring the top middle- and long-distance runners in the country. He remembers the testing of threshold pace and oxygen uptake very well when Ingebrigtsen was eleven years old.
What he ran as an 11-year-old was what the good 16- and 17-year-olds were running. When I thought it was fast enough for him, he just gave a thumbs-up. It was absolutely amazing," says Leif Inge Tjelta to VG.
He works as an associate professor in exercise physiology at the University of Stavanger.
It's extraordinary when a young boy runs 08:26.81 in the steeplechase and as fast as Arne Kvalheim did in the mile," Tjelta believes"
"It is Leif Inge Tjelta and Eystein Enoksen who have tested both the maximum oxygen uptake and threshold speed of the young Sandnes runner. The threshold speed was at 15.6 km/h while the maximum oxygen uptake was at 68 ml/kg/min. Jakob managed to run at 20 km/h with a 1 percent incline on the treadmill for a couple of minutes.
Jakob is truly exceptional. It is the first time I have seen such qualities in such a young Norwegian athlete," says Leif Inge Tjelta to Aftenposten"
Perhaps not surprising that 11 years later he still has endurance as his greatest strength?
If everyone dopes, why are you so hyperfixated on JI. Why care if everyone dopes anyway? Let the best doper win, enjoy the sport a bit more and stop being an old crybaby.
J Ingebrigtsen has never outsprinted Matt C or C Engels. Stating J Ingebrigtsen outsprinted Matt C & C Engels is like stating Soviet Union Out Blitzed Germany. J Ingebrigtsen is not John Walker 2.0. John Walker, Matt C and C Engels, all legit 1:44.xx 800m men. If J Ingebrigtsen were a legit sub-1:45 800m man, J Ingebrigtsen would not be afraid to allow 1500m races to split 1200m slower than 3 minutes.
J Ingebrigtsen fanatics have moved away from J Ingebrigtsen breaking 1500m w.r. to now, all you gals & guys can say: there is a good chance J Ingebrigtsen will improve ...
You could argue that Ingebrigtsen beating Centro and Engels at the end of 1500s is because of his superior strength and not his sprint speed, I’ll grant you that. But I see you always making this argument “If Ingebrigtsen could run sub-1:45, he wouldn’t be afraid to allow 1500m races to split 1200m slower than 3 minutes” and it makes ZERO sense. 1:44.9 isn’t special for a world class 1500 runner, but Jakob’s 3k/5k ability is. Why in the world would he let a 1500 dawdle at damn near his 5k pace and open the door for others to beat him when he could bury them earlier, or at least dull their kicks? That’s not evidence whatsoever that he can’t run sub-1:45, it only means he knows a fast pace gives him an advantage over other sub-1:45 guys.
Even John Walker was better at 2k than he was at 800, and he ran 3:32.4 on 1:44.9 800 speed. 3:32.4 is 4.5 seconds slower than Ingebrigtsen’s PB, if you haven’t noticed. More likely than not Jakob is in that same neighborhood over 800m, just with way better endurance.
I like the point objective observer made about 800 runners not running near their PBs every time out. Anyone who’s spent a lot of time of World Athletics profiles knows that most 800 specialists over the course of a season will run, say, 1:47.2 - 1:47.2 - 1:46.0 - 1:46.5 - 1:44.7 - 1:46.4 - 1:46.5 - 1:43.1 - 1:47.8 - 1:46.0 - 1:45.8 - 1:46.8 (Clayton Murphy, 2018)—so it’s not surprising Jakob wouldn’t hit his fastest potential 800 running it 4 times in the last 4 seasons (and two of those were rounds/finals at the Norwegian championships which he won, so they hardly count for anything).
Going back over 50 years, 1500m men gold medalists who have not been afraid to wait to make their move, Olympics, waiting to final 400m or closer to finish line were all sub-1:46 men:
1972, Pekka Vassala, 800m, 1:44.5
1976, John Walker, 800m, 1:44.92
1980 & 1984, Sebastian Coe, 800m, 1:41.73
1992, Fermin Cacho, 800m, 1:45.37 (Did Fermin Cacho look like only a 1:45.xx 800m man August 8th, 1992?);
1996, Noureddine, Morceli, 1:44.79;
2000, Noah Ngeny, 1:44.49;
2008, skip,
2012, Taoufik Makhloufi, 800m, 1:42.61.
Reviewing the Olympics, past 50 years, the above were the men were waited to take the lead until sometime in final 400m or not too long before. A couple sub-1:43 800m men but the other five were not sub-1:43 800m men.
Two weeks ago,when he ran 6x800, the two last 1.49.5, he tasted the speed. Some says that max. speed over the distance may be to slow ref. his 800 PB at 1.46.44. It is a fair indication. But we actually do'nt know how fast he can run a 800, but under 1,45.5 probably not. And some refer to EGs 1.46 high at the last 800 in the Athens Olympics. His sub 40 at the last 300 when he ran 3:26 is out of reach for Jakob. So he has to rely on 55.0 every 400. But this year? Not so, I think. But his ability to be better month after month in summer may indicate a litte bit over 3:27. So not this year. And may be never.
So I don't think anyone believes or envisions that if Jakob was going to get close to this record, that he would execute it in a similar fashion to either Hicham or even Morceli - which is the capability to run under 40 seconds or even very low 40 seconds in the final 300. He can't really look at much slower than 2.45.0 at 1200m which as you said and we agree on, puts his magic "number" at 55.0 per 400m split.
I think where we disagree is his 800m potential. You might have to trust me on this as I do have some experience with this distance and also with the kind of times we are discussing here, but Jakob can run much faster than his current PR and certainly can run closer to 1.45.0 than 1.45.5. Also potential and an "official" time for him are two different things because it's unlikely he would ever race an 800m from now on and give us something "official" - the same way that El Guerrouj never did and left us all sort of guessing with the "official" 1.47 PR.
Let me give an example of a name from the past that might surprise you. If I asked you what you thought Craig Mottram could run for 800m what would you say? Mottram was obviously at his best over 3000m/5000m but also ran 3.48.98 for the mile. So what do you think? 1.47.5? 1.47.0? I think most people would look at his PR's and estimate this. Well I know for a fact that Mottram ran under 1.46 (1.45.7) in a workout time-trial back in 2005, the year he medalled in Helsinki. Surprised? A lot of the time an actual 800m race won't suit 1500/5000 guys because of the way they are run and the disruptive manner of the way it's raced. But when they can run evenly and smoothly they can surprisingly approach times we think we could only see a top 800/1500m runner run. This would be the same with El G and his mythical "reported" sub 1.43 TT in training. No chance in a competitive race he could do this because of the manner it would be run.
So if it's pure 800m speed that concerns you it shouldn't. He has more than enough basic two lap speed and endurance to run right at 1.49.5 through 800m and still be in a position to run 55 seconds for the third lap. Yeah he might fall apart after this and this might exceed his ability, but he can do it (this 1200m split). And back to the point of this thread - it's not about the outcome it's about hypothesizing his path to running under 3.26.0. If he actually does it or not (I agree, still unlikely) doesn't really matter in the case of this thread.
Ingebrigtsen's superior endurance that you refer to begs the question of whether that superiority has been naturally achieved and that it in fact isn't really "superior". Quite a few here apparently think it wasn't.
The narrower the differential between an athlete's best 800 capability and their 800/700 splits in a 1500 the more it raises the question of doping, because it can suggest unnatural levels of endurance.
Be honest -- now that he has run some fast times, anything he does "begs" the same question. If he suddenly runs 1:44 demonstrating better speed -- drugs. If he only runs 1:46 showing better endurance -- drugs. If he gets another tattoo -- that's tainted needles -- drugs. If he dates another girl -- that's cheating -- drugs.
The trigger for you to "raise the question of doping" can be anything you want.
Meanwhile, it seems rather wishful to think we have seen Jakob run an all out 800m in peak 800m shape.
You could argue that Ingebrigtsen beating Centro and Engels at the end of 1500s is because of his superior strength and not his sprint speed, I’ll grant you that. But I see you always making this argument “If Ingebrigtsen could run sub-1:45, he wouldn’t be afraid to allow 1500m races to split 1200m slower than 3 minutes” and it makes ZERO sense. 1:44.9 isn’t special for a world class 1500 runner, but Jakob’s 3k/5k ability is. Why in the world would he let a 1500 dawdle at damn near his 5k pace and open the door for others to beat him when he could bury them earlier, or at least dull their kicks? That’s not evidence whatsoever that he can’t run sub-1:45, it only means he knows a fast pace gives him an advantage over other sub-1:45 guys.
Even John Walker was better at 2k than he was at 800, and he ran 3:32.4 on 1:44.9 800 speed. 3:32.4 is 4.5 seconds slower than Ingebrigtsen’s PB, if you haven’t noticed. More likely than not Jakob is in that same neighborhood over 800m, just with way better endurance.
I like the point objective observer made about 800 runners not running near their PBs every time out. Anyone who’s spent a lot of time of World Athletics profiles knows that most 800 specialists over the course of a season will run, say, 1:47.2 - 1:47.2 - 1:46.0 - 1:46.5 - 1:44.7 - 1:46.4 - 1:46.5 - 1:43.1 - 1:47.8 - 1:46.0 - 1:45.8 - 1:46.8 (Clayton Murphy, 2018)—so it’s not surprising Jakob wouldn’t hit his fastest potential 800 running it 4 times in the last 4 seasons (and two of those were rounds/finals at the Norwegian championships which he won, so they hardly count for anything).
Ingebrigtsen's superior endurance that you refer to begs the question of whether that superiority has been naturally achieved and that it in fact isn't really "superior". Quite a few here apparently think it wasn't.
The narrower the differential between an athlete's best 800 capability and their 800/700 splits in a 1500 the more it raises the question of doping, because it can suggest unnatural levels of endurance.
It doesn't beg to question it at all, on the contrary, it emplores you not to question it. Its such a dull topic. We don't care. Everyone is doping. Cool, next.
You could argue that Ingebrigtsen beating Centro and Engels at the end of 1500s is because of his superior strength and not his sprint speed, I’ll grant you that. But I see you always making this argument “If Ingebrigtsen could run sub-1:45, he wouldn’t be afraid to allow 1500m races to split 1200m slower than 3 minutes” and it makes ZERO sense. 1:44.9 isn’t special for a world class 1500 runner, but Jakob’s 3k/5k ability is. Why in the world would he let a 1500 dawdle at damn near his 5k pace and open the door for others to beat him when he could bury them earlier, or at least dull their kicks? That’s not evidence whatsoever that he can’t run sub-1:45, it only means he knows a fast pace gives him an advantage over other sub-1:45 guys.
Even John Walker was better at 2k than he was at 800, and he ran 3:32.4 on 1:44.9 800 speed. 3:32.4 is 4.5 seconds slower than Ingebrigtsen’s PB, if you haven’t noticed. More likely than not Jakob is in that same neighborhood over 800m, just with way better endurance.
I like the point objective observer made about 800 runners not running near their PBs every time out. Anyone who’s spent a lot of time of World Athletics profiles knows that most 800 specialists over the course of a season will run, say, 1:47.2 - 1:47.2 - 1:46.0 - 1:46.5 - 1:44.7 - 1:46.4 - 1:46.5 - 1:43.1 - 1:47.8 - 1:46.0 - 1:45.8 - 1:46.8 (Clayton Murphy, 2018)—so it’s not surprising Jakob wouldn’t hit his fastest potential 800 running it 4 times in the last 4 seasons (and two of those were rounds/finals at the Norwegian championships which he won, so they hardly count for anything).
Going back over 50 years, 1500m men gold medalists who have not been afraid to wait to make their move, Olympics, waiting to final 400m or closer to finish line were all sub-1:46 men:
1972, Pekka Vassala, 800m, 1:44.5
1976, John Walker, 800m, 1:44.92
1980 & 1984, Sebastian Coe, 800m, 1:41.73
1992, Fermin Cacho, 800m, 1:45.37 (Did Fermin Cacho look like only a 1:45.xx 800m man August 8th, 1992?);
1996, Noureddine, Morceli, 1:44.79;
2000, Noah Ngeny, 1:44.49;
2008, skip,
2012, Taoufik Makhloufi, 800m, 1:42.61.
Reviewing the Olympics, past 50 years, the above were the men were waited to take the lead until sometime in final 400m or not too long before. A couple sub-1:43 800m men but the other five were not sub-1:43 800m men.
I’m not sure what point you think you’re making regarding Jakob. What does it matter whether he’s “afraid to wait to make his move” if his tactics win him the Olympic gold? If anything it just indicates that Olympic 1500 champions are likely to be capable of sub-1:45 800s.
Going back over 50 years, 1500m men gold medalists who have not been afraid to wait to make their move, Olympics, waiting to final 400m or closer to finish line were all sub-1:46 men:
1972, Pekka Vassala, 800m, 1:44.5
1976, John Walker, 800m, 1:44.92
1980 & 1984, Sebastian Coe, 800m, 1:41.73
1992, Fermin Cacho, 800m, 1:45.37 (Did Fermin Cacho look like only a 1:45.xx 800m man August 8th, 1992?);
1996, Noureddine, Morceli, 1:44.79;
2000, Noah Ngeny, 1:44.49;
2008, skip,
2012, Taoufik Makhloufi, 800m, 1:42.61.
Reviewing the Olympics, past 50 years, the above were the men were waited to take the lead until sometime in final 400m or not too long before. A couple sub-1:43 800m men but the other five were not sub-1:43 800m men.
I’m not sure what point you think you’re making regarding Jakob. What does it matter whether he’s “afraid to wait to make his move” if his tactics win him the Olympic gold? If anything it just indicates that Olympic 1500 champions are likely to be capable of sub-1:45 800s.
Jakob in a controlled environment 800m TT (maybe 1 pacer, with a bike or lights) in good conditions, can run 1.45.0 and probably even faster.
Time trialling an 800m and racing one are totally different things. And in the case of his potential as a 1500m runner, it's absolutely irrelevant what his time would be in a competitively raced 800 meters which for some reason people keep holding on to ("but he only ran 1.46.44 back in 2020"). If Craig Mottram can run under 1.46 in a controlled environment TT, I will repeat this, there is absolutely no way Jakob wouldn't run at least 1.45 flat.
Ingebrigtsen's superior endurance that you refer to begs the question of whether that superiority has been naturally achieved and that it in fact isn't really "superior". Quite a few here apparently think it wasn't.
The narrower the differential between an athlete's best 800 capability and their 800/700 splits in a 1500 the more it raises the question of doping, because it can suggest unnatural levels of endurance.
Or he's just better than 1:46 right now?
Interesting to me that you won't believe he is faster than 1:46 in the 800 because there is no data to support that yet you are raising suspicion of him doping even though there is no data on that either. Interesting.
How is he better than 1.46? A 2 mile record - or even his 1500 time - doesn't tell you anything about that. Yet everything about the latter distances tells me he is just another doper at the top of the sport.
This post was edited 22 seconds after it was posted.
If everyone dopes, why are you so hyperfixated on JI. Why care if everyone dopes anyway? Let the best doper win, enjoy the sport a bit more and stop being an old crybaby.
That's right. What does it matter if all the best athletes are doping? Just enjoy the show.
"In 2012, Leif Inge Tjelta tested Jakob Ingebrigtsen, who was 11 years old at the time. He describes the talent he displayed in 2017 as "extraordinary".
Five years later, Ingebrigtsen has taken the athletics track by storm. He has broken the world record for 16- and 17-year-olds in the "dream mile," won two gold medals in the U20 European Championships, and surpassed the qualifying standard for the 3000-meter steeplechase in the World Championships.j
Telta has extensive experience in testing and monitoring the top middle- and long-distance runners in the country. He remembers the testing of threshold pace and oxygen uptake very well when Ingebrigtsen was eleven years old.
What he ran as an 11-year-old was what the good 16- and 17-year-olds were running. When I thought it was fast enough for him, he just gave a thumbs-up. It was absolutely amazing," says Leif Inge Tjelta to VG.
He works as an associate professor in exercise physiology at the University of Stavanger.
It's extraordinary when a young boy runs 08:26.81 in the steeplechase and as fast as Arne Kvalheim did in the mile," Tjelta believes"
"It is Leif Inge Tjelta and Eystein Enoksen who have tested both the maximum oxygen uptake and threshold speed of the young Sandnes runner. The threshold speed was at 15.6 km/h while the maximum oxygen uptake was at 68 ml/kg/min. Jakob managed to run at 20 km/h with a 1 percent incline on the treadmill for a couple of minutes.
Jakob is truly exceptional. It is the first time I have seen such qualities in such a young Norwegian athlete," says Leif Inge Tjelta to Aftenposten"
Perhaps not surprising that 11 years later he still has endurance as his greatest strength?
Ingebrigtsen's superior endurance that you refer to begs the question of whether that superiority has been naturally achieved and that it in fact isn't really "superior". Quite a few here apparently think it wasn't.
The narrower the differential between an athlete's best 800 capability and their 800/700 splits in a 1500 the more it raises the question of doping, because it can suggest unnatural levels of endurance.
Be honest -- now that he has run some fast times, anything he does "begs" the same question. If he suddenly runs 1:44 demonstrating better speed -- drugs. If he only runs 1:46 showing better endurance -- drugs. If he gets another tattoo -- that's tainted needles -- drugs. If he dates another girl -- that's cheating -- drugs.
The trigger for you to "raise the question of doping" can be anything you want.
Meanwhile, it seems rather wishful to think we have seen Jakob run an all out 800m in peak 800m shape.
Wrong. If he can run 1.44 - which he can't - that lessens the doping argument than if he can barely beat 1.46 - which he hasn't done.
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