Man choked to death by rider on NY subway

Telling that people calling Penny a "hero" ran away from this question.

"Always wanting to be the prosecutor, judge, jury and executioner for all black people."

________

Jordan Neely had an extraordinarily long police record. Contrary to what you imply, he almost certainly long escaped proper prosecution and judgment, and nobody benefited, neither him, his family, his friends, his victims, nor the greater public.

He actually went to jail for a year for punching the 67-yr-old woman in the East Village. He was at Rikers. So he wasn't just walking around free after a violent crime, like arguably the young Marine. This isn't liberal policy. It's just a melange of different things that cause a mess. Reagan's the one who got rid of mental institutions all together. Those institutions were riddled with sex abuse and poor conditions, but if there was will for oversight and accountability they could have cleaned that up rather than have nothing. He probably wasn't getting any sustained help for his mental health in prison. It's just lock him up for the requisite time and release with no support structure. That doesn't sound very liberal to me.

Also in 10 pages I haven't seen any mention of Jordan Neely's personal background. He's not a "career criminal." People who know him say he was never the same after his mother was killed by his stepfather. They found her body in a suitcase thrown out by the highway. I don't know if I would ever be well after that either. She was just thrown away. He became schizophrenic and a drug user, while also being a Michael Jackson impersonator, I guess. I think the pandemic and no public spaces like the subway being frequented really changed him for the worse the last few years.

I am interested in learning more about the Marine too. I wonder if he has PTSD or something.

How have the mods allowed the word “honky” to remain in the title of this thread. As bad as the N word. Seriously, we are making everyone feel like sh*t. The young generation is going to hate everybody.

Yes, it's quite clear that he had a tough background (his mother was murdered when he was 14) and he had mental health issues, but that doesn't mean he should be allowed to threaten people on the subway and be released after 40+ arrests.

Look at how letting the mentally ill homeless do what they want turned out in Portland.

Yeah, I just mean they need some sort of sustained support and care, cause it's not actually illegal to be acting erratic in public. You can rack up a long list of petty charges like disorderly conduct but the way it is now, what are they supposed to do with a person who was loud and throwing trash? He served a year for punching a woman. You can't lock up a person in jail forever for that. Why do we have to either criminalize everything or do nothing?

I agree it doesn't sound liberal, but unfortunately it is liberal policy. Every progressive city chooses to govern itself this way intentionally.

Honky is a racist term. Do better.

We could ship him and people like him to a wide open field in the middle of acres and acres of uninhabited land and supply him with housing (trailer, barracks, small house, whatever) and ship in various food and water (and potentially drugs) and never have to deal with this BS again.

He's happy - out of a crowded, maddening city and into nature with all his needs met. Might even get better out there not being surrounded with the noise and stress of a busy city.

We're happy - he's no longer causing issues in public places and this idea would cost a fraction of what is currently needed/taxed now.

The city government - not happy because they no longer have a "controllable issue" that allows them increased power, bureaucracy, and taxes.

Social workers (and other "service" providers) - not happy because their main customers are no longer in town and if they want to continue helping them (which they say they do but don't really), they'll have to move out to, say, western West Virginia.

Another problem /solved -Krispy

Again, the fraud "liberals" don't REALLY care about his problems or they would have been addressed-- against his will, if necessary-- prior to his encounter with the Marine.

Another example: there was a joint NYPD / ATF raid in a public housing project nearby last week.

Activist types immediately staged a protest about over policing, gang database, "smoke bombs" etc...

Whule the details are sketchy at present...

This ** SAME ** housing project and its immediate neighborhood has had numerous shootings and killings-- and has rampant drug dealing-- and tourist drug addicts coming from other parts of the city to buy drugs-- there are crack vials and needles in the kids' playgrounds-- there are reports of shots fired that thankfully MISSED their intended targets but the cops come anyway...

You know how many of those things were cause for protest?

Yeah, ZERO. NONE.

So what's worse, 10 kids arrested or... 10 kids and adults shot and killed by each other in the last couple years?

Liberals are mentally ill.

This case needs to be indicted for sure so we can find out exactly what happened, what led to the altercation. Daniel Penny absolutely needs to be arrested for this.

I truly can't see how anything Jordan Neely did would lead to a fifteen minute chokehold. Chokeholds are not a way to properly restrain someone. I would think as a marine, he would know that. Why so long?

My thoughts:

Yes, race matters. If the argument is that people felt "threatened" by a black man, race matters. I'm sorry it does. Wolf has been cried too many a time by non black people on black men being "threatening" for the black community not to have their antennas up on this story. Trayvon Martin was walking. Emmett Till may have whistled or may not have. George Floyd gave a counterfeit bill. Brandon Marsh rang the wrong door bell. All attacked and three killed by people who felt "threatened". None were threatening.

The question remains, was Jordan Neely threatening?

Here's the thing. Many liberals are arguing that all Jordan was doing was crying out for help. And I actually agree--that was what he was actually doing. But in the moment, on the subway car, is that what it looked like? If someone came in, threw his jacket, and screamed he didn't care if he went to jail, I, tired from my workday, wouldn't be thinking "this poor man just needs help." I would be scared. what does that mean, he doesn't care if he goes to jail? Does this mean he's going to hurt me?

Jordan's actions did go past the point of "disruptive". They just did.

A lot of people have asked the question, at what point should a person feel threatened? When we think about other black men such as the ones above, shot at or brutally murdered because others felt threatened, it's pretty easy to determine that all four were not at all threatening to their assailants. Jordan is a little murkier. I can see how he scared the people in the car based on what has been shared, even if it was never his intention to hurt people.

Now there's the question of Daniel Penny's actions. Were they justifiable? My answer, regardless of Jordan's actions, has to be no. I believe Daniel was justified in restraining Jordan, but not in holding him in a chokehold until he passed out and died. It's a thin line to walk, but if he felt like the answer resulted in hurting or killing Jordan, he was wrong for doing it, because Jordan hadn't moved to threaten others. But in the age of mass shootings and constant fear of violence, I can see why Daniel might have felt entitled and taken some initiative to deescalate the situation.

I think the most important thing here is to have a trial. Let's get all the facts straight about it and get the story straight. Jordan deserves to have his day in court for his homicide. Let's not lionize Daniel as a hero as the press was initially doing. We don't know if he was justified in doing killing Jordan all.

I got almost a minute into this thinking "bourgeois" would probably turn out to be editorialization by the guy writing the tweet. Nope. The modern Communists are openly using the old Communist words now.

It's also pretty amazing how this woman, who would probably take a line of "this is rape culture" toward men looking at her wrong in a different context, is suddenly filled with compassion for a man who actually assaulted her, when it's politically useful to be so.

One of the things that sticks with me from The Gulag Archipelago is how the Soviet Union long exerted power against the political prisoners in their forced labor camps by letting career criminals have more or less free reign -- given power, they gladly lorded their will over those intellectuals and other "traitors to the Motherland". (These career criminals were called "the thieves" in the English translation I read -- not sure if these were members of organized crime or something else).

Ideally each situation would be handled completely separately at the time, but it's hard not to have something like this trigger some pattern recognition. I have been on trains and busses and just walking on the street in an urban city. I have been in enough situations that got violent and seen enough scary dudes who intimidated a whole train car or bus. This guy may have been different but it looks enough like enough other situations I've seen like this that I would be wary of the guy too. I would not be surprised if what actually happened is the marine snapped and attacked Jordan. And I have felt like doing the same thing many times and might have if I thought I could.

But 15 minutes on the ground, geez. It seems like with all those people standing around, they could have subdued him without killing him. I personally would only do that if I was getting attacked by a bunch of guys. I might try to grab one in a headlock and hold onto him while others tried to beat me. This was nothing like that.

The extreme measures taken such as shooting them to death or choke holding to subdue an assailant or potential one are excessive and incompetent. As runners we all here should know that the proper and effective procedure and punishment, one that would strike fear in anyone of us anyway, should involve debilitating the perpetrators legs, thus gaining control of them. If they are unarmed then break their knees, if armed then shoot them in the legs. The issue is resolved. What more horrible fate than to never be able to run again!

You're right. All those people who survived Bergen-Belsen turned out just like Jordan Neely. The Marine didn't kill Jordan Neely; he restrained him. Jordan Neely killed himself with a lack of hill repeats (physical) and pickleball (mental) life style.

What exactly would the legal penalty have been for yelling on the subway like the crazy guy he was? That is all the penalty that the state should have given him, not a body bag courtesy of a fed up private citizen.

Instead he got murdered by a white guy who is now considered a hero by millions, as well supported by a majority of the predominantly white Letsrun community. Funny how the group that makes a thread about the murder count in Chicago every Monday and acts like its the biggest problem in America can all of sudden be OK with murder.