Parker Valby/Natalie Cook - what am I missing?

My apologies for not yet getting completely through this thread yet, if my question has been covered.

First, kudos to Jon Gault for asking the right questions pertaining to training that produced that great performance. It appeared Valby too was shocked how well the cross-training worked.

My question: A lot of emphasis in the investigation has been placed on the elliptical. However, Valby mentioned three things, (1) the elliptical, (2) pool running, and (3) the arc trainer.

I didn’t know what the third thing was, and maybe that is a hidden gem:

From Wikipedia:

“The Arc Trainer is adjustable for incline and resistance and has a variable stride rate. Resistance settings are proportional to body-weight such that the same amount of relative work is performed by a 110 lb female and a 250 lb male when the same resistance level is selected. Researchers found that healthy men burn about 10.8 calories per minute while working on the Arc Trainer, compared to about 9.3 calories per minute while on an elliptical. There are two versions of the Arc Trainer, a lower body version and a total body version. The Total Body Arc Trainer uses a same side forward pattern of motion where the arm and leg on the same side move together. This movement pattern allows the user to transfer work to their upper body without simultaneously increasing the work rate of the legs.

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“First introduced in 2003, the Arc Trainer’s footplates move in an arcuate path of motion as opposed to the elliptical pattern seen in elliptical trainers. The arc pattern of motion is a patented technology,[1][citation needed] designed to generate force only when the user is in the load-bearing phase of the gait cycle. This generates forces in the legs which balance the loading between the hip and knee joints.[2] The result of this balanced loading design creates less stress on the knee joint and allows higher muscle training effect with lower perceived exertion.[3]”

There is only 1 person that’s gonna ruin cook’s and valby’s career and that’s tuohy!🤘

Why can’t we just be excited that there are several American collegiate runners that very talented? Why are we tearing down one another? It doesn’t make one athlete a bad person if the other is successful. I’m sure Tuohy, Cook, and Valby are really hard workers that deserve whatever success comes their way. Let’s just be happy and excited for all of them.

I absolutely agree, it’s fun to get the trolls fired up though!👍

my understanding is that Natalie does most of her aerobic work on a ProForm Carbon EL elliptical. I believe she does a lot of aerobic, just not running.

I wonder if Gault can get an update on Valby’s training. Is she still using aerobic machines to supplement? Which ones? How many days a week during cross-country season, etc?

AIU have been pretty good at ruining American track careers of late.

I know there is some truth in the pat answer, ‘pretty much anything will work if one puts in enough work’. But ceratainly the machines of today offer improvement from the days when Zatopek would stomp on his laundry in the bathtub?

My impression is basically nobody sticks with the cross training. I am still waiting for someone who does like 7 hours of running and then does another 14 hours of pool running, alter g, and all the elipitical type stuff. Let's see what the effects of doing a ton of low intensity work is when you can keep your legs fresh enough to still do decent quality running.

I’m sort of a geezer (60-something), but I got on an elliptical machine tonight (which I’ve abhorred.). Maybe I can stick with it long enough to find out.

Wow, in this interview (posted on the Valby thread), Parker confirms she likes the Arc Trainer best, because its motion is more running-like than the Elliptical machine:

anchor.fm

Parker Valby Speaks On Coming Back From Injuries, Helping Her Team Win NCAAs, & Her Future by The Running Effect Podcast

Parker Valby Speaks On Coming Back From Injuries, Helping Her Team Win NCAAs, & Her Future by The Running Effect Podcast

In today’s episode of the podcast, I have the great privilege of speaking with Parker Valby. Parker is an accomplished runner who competes for the University of Florida. Most recently, Parker placed second in the NCAA Women’s...

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Lol. For a W60 racing 800m, 4 days a week of " actual running" is quite a lot. What did you think, that the other long sprint/mid-D grandma's are doing doubles and 80 miles a week?

Not true at all. I struggled to run 28 for 200, couldn't run 55, but ran sub 2/4/14:40. I considered myself pretty slow twitch.

Monson has a 4:07 best and probably can't run 2:05. His logic says she can't come close to 15 but she ran 14:31.

Interesting, because a 14:31 is worth a 3:54 per the Jack Daniels Calculator.

The pat answer typically given for the increase in performances over the years is how much harder athletes train today. But then we hear that some athletes are training so much less than others - in some cases, only two days a week - and getting way better. So one explanation apparently contradicts the other. Training harder, training less - it doesn't matter what they do, athletes simply continue to get much better. Quite obviously it has nothing to do with how much or how little they train.

These athletes are training less than Zatopek and yet improving. Apparently they are doing something Zatopek wasn't.

What about training smarter? Doesn’t it make sense that supplementary cardio machines allows them to get in a lot more aerobic work which is not a physically risky (from an injury perspective) as running, nor takes as long to recover from when compared to running?