No way that Frias or Engelhardt could run 15:30 right now.
15:30 is 10:00 at the 3200 split and those 2 girls would struggle just to run a 10:00 3200, never mind keep going at that pace for another 1800 meters.
Angelina Perez is better at 5k than either Frias or Engelhardt and even Perez only ran a 9:56 2 mile a few weeks ago, which means that no way Perez runs a 15:30 either.
Natalie Cook is in a league of her own right now.
frias ran 9:59 in her second meet of the year, with second place coming in at 12:40. she was cruising and her 4:33 1600 where she was also never straining shows she's in way better shape than 9:59.
frias and engelhardt are both faster than cook over 800 and 1600. i get the 5000 is a totally different ballgame, but i think people are severely underestimating them.
not sure if they are matching up at arcadia in the 3200. hope so.
Both Frias and Engelhardt lost to Cook in 5k cross country in December by over 30 seconds.
frias ran 9:59 in her second meet of the year, with second place coming in at 12:40. she was cruising and her 4:33 1600 where she was also never straining shows she's in way better shape than 9:59.
frias and engelhardt are both faster than cook over 800 and 1600. i get the 5000 is a totally different ballgame, but i think people are severely underestimating them.
not sure if they are matching up at arcadia in the 3200. hope so.
Both Frias and Engelhardt lost to Cook in 5k cross country in December by over 30 seconds.
Frias also beat Cook by 13 seconds and lost to Engelhardt by 1 second in September. Seems like perhaps Frias and Engelhardt had a rough late XC season. Nothing about their performances post-Woodbridge would've suggested the mile or to a lesser extent even the 3200 times we've been getting. I don't expect a 15:3x or 9:3x, but sub-9:50 and sub-15:50 are definitely in the cards.
You are cherrypicking. You can go back to photographs from 2019. It is not that radical a change.
I think there is a lot of cherry picking from 2019 on pictures that are angles that look heavier than she was. She was lean and fit in 2019. Which is why the 2021 pics, especially the recent ones from the armory when she is in a crop, are giving people red flags. Recall that photos tend to make people look 5 lbs or so heavier, so if you look that skinny in a photo, you normally look downright skeletal in person. Honestly the pics at her recently remind me of junior/senior year of college Molly Seidel in terms of leanness. And yes, it might just be 5-10 lbs, but she was small enough to begin with that that is *too* much. And blah blah blah, so and so pro got leaner as a pro from high school/college blah blah. Usually when done healthily as a normal adaption to training, that happens over a long period of time, and usually we're talking about pros who are in their mid-late 20s-30s, not 18 year olds.
Both Frias and Engelhardt lost to Cook in 5k cross country in December by over 30 seconds.
Frias also beat Cook by 13 seconds and lost to Engelhardt by 1 second in September. Seems like perhaps Frias and Engelhardt had a rough late XC season. Nothing about their performances post-Woodbridge would've suggested the mile or to a lesser extent even the 3200 times we've been getting. I don't expect a 15:3x or 9:3x, but sub-9:50 and sub-15:50 are definitely in the cards.
just wanted to add that Frias and Engelhardt running 16:52 and 16:58, respectively, at Woodward park for the CA state meet def indicates 10:00 sort of talent.
of note, that race at woodwark park was Frias' 6th race in a span of 35 days. thus her race against Cook at Garmin nationals was her 7th in 42 days. raced 6 weekends in a row.
by Eastbay nationals engelhardt was doing her 7th race in 43 days. raced 7 weekends in a row!
garmin nationals was cooks 3rd race in 28 days and only 2nd weekend in a row of racing.
eastbay nationals was cooks 4th race in 35 days and thus 3rd weekend in a row.
qualifying for CIF State meet when you're in the southern section is a total shtshow
You are cherrypicking. You can go back to photographs from 2019. It is not that radical a change.
I think there is a lot of cherry picking from 2019 on pictures that are angles that look heavier than she was. She was lean and fit in 2019. Which is why the 2021 pics, especially the recent ones from the armory when she is in a crop, are giving people red flags. Recall that photos tend to make people look 5 lbs or so heavier, so if you look that skinny in a photo, you normally look downright skeletal in person. Honestly the pics at her recently remind me of junior/senior year of college Molly Seidel in terms of leanness. And yes, it might just be 5-10 lbs, but she was small enough to begin with that that is *too* much. And blah blah blah, so and so pro got leaner as a pro from high school/college blah blah. Usually when done healthily as a normal adaption to training, that happens over a long period of time, and usually we're talking about pros who are in their mid-late 20s-30s, not 18 year olds.
yeah i went back and looked at past pics from 2019 (she was a freshman mind you) and nobody is gonna be able to gaslight me on this one. especially given the extremely low volume of mileage she can handle before having injury issues.
she's played her trump card early so very little chances of similar success post-collegiately, but honestly most pros would prob tell you that's a blessing in a lot of ways. most pro athletes lose a lot of years trying to get by financially and then enter into a "real career" 5-10+ years behind their peers and it's hard to catch up.
Frias also beat Cook by 13 seconds and lost to Engelhardt by 1 second in September. Seems like perhaps Frias and Engelhardt had a rough late XC season. Nothing about their performances post-Woodbridge would've suggested the mile or to a lesser extent even the 3200 times we've been getting. I don't expect a 15:3x or 9:3x, but sub-9:50 and sub-15:50 are definitely in the cards.
just wanted to add that Frias and Engelhardt running 16:52 and 16:58, respectively, at Woodward park for the CA state meet def indicates 10:00 sort of talent.
of note, that race at woodwark park was Frias' 6th race in a span of 35 days. thus her race against Cook at Garmin nationals was her 7th in 42 days. raced 6 weekends in a row.
by Eastbay nationals engelhardt was doing her 7th race in 43 days. raced 7 weekends in a row!
garmin nationals was cooks 3rd race in 28 days and only 2nd weekend in a row of racing.
eastbay nationals was cooks 4th race in 35 days and thus 3rd weekend in a row.
qualifying for CIF State meet when you're in the southern section is a total shtshow
Also entered is Sophia Nordenholz who ran 16:40 at Woodward and finished 9th at Eastbay. She ran 10:05 at Arcadia last year to finish second behind Mia Barnett.
Oops - getting this mixed up with the Arcadia thread.
Track and Field news has an interview with Cook in which she relates a recent workout - 1 mile at 5:00, 1 minute rest, 2 miles at 10:05, 2 minute rest, 1 mile at 4:55. Longest run these days? Maybe 5 miles.
Track and Field news has an interview with Cook in which she relates a recent workout - 1 mile at 5:00, 1 minute rest, 2 miles at 10:05, 2 minute rest, 1 mile at 4:55. Longest run these days? Maybe 5 miles.
The article ended by stating ... "Looking ahead, she says, “I just want to enjoy the rest of my season and I want to see if I can get the 2M record and the mile record. But we’ll see. I just like being able to run. It’s amazing. I love the feeling that running gives me and I love sharing the feeling with all my teammates.”"
I'm hoping Natalie Cook runs a 1-Mile race against Dalia Frias, Sadie Engelhardt and Ellie Shea ... We know Natalie can run fast at 5K and 2M, and that made me wonder about her current 1-Mile ability if running fresh ... All three of the other girls have faster 800 meter bests (Engelhardt-2:05.66, Frias- 2:09.43, Shea-2:08.59, Cook-2:12.52, but Cook can likely run faster).
That work out is madness. But it reflects my thinking that she is somehow capable of running nearly at her top speed almost no matter what the distance. Her best mile times are in the mid 4:40's and I am sure she can run faster than that but really 10 or 15 seconds faster? Would love to see it.
Distressed she has had such anxiety issues around running and peoples expectations. I hope she has that handled with counseling. I can only imagine that pressure has only gone up to 11 with the white hot light of national recognition after her recent successes. Would be a tragedy if things got into her head that made running unenjoyable and not worth it. Just please please please stay away from letsrun...
Track and Field news has an interview with Cook in which she relates a recent workout - 1 mile at 5:00, 1 minute rest, 2 miles at 10:05, 2 minute rest, 1 mile at 4:55. Longest run these days? Maybe 5 miles.
The article ended by stating ... "Looking ahead, she says, “I just want to enjoy the rest of my season and I want to see if I can get the 2M record and the mile record. But we’ll see. I just like being able to run. It’s amazing. I love the feeling that running gives me and I love sharing the feeling with all my teammates.”"
I'm hoping Natalie Cook runs a 1-Mile race against Dalia Frias, Sadie Engelhardt and Ellie Shea ... We know Natalie can run fast at 5K and 2M, and that made me wonder about her current 1-Mile ability if running fresh ... All three of the other girls have faster 800 meter bests (Engelhardt-2:05.66, Frias- 2:09.43, Shea-2:08.59, Cook-2:12.52, but Cook can likely run faster).
i'm sure she can go a bit faster than 2:12, but you're aware she's got two teammates right at the same time give or take a second, yeah? same goes for the mile. the humphries sisters are legit. cook doesn't even have the fastest 800m time on her team.
point being, it's not like she doesn't have anybody to run with or race against. she got 2nd to her teammate in that 2:12.6 where her S. Humphries was 1 second ahead of her.
based on the speed she showed as a frosh (66/400 and 2:17/800 didn't win either race) relative to her 3200 time that year of 10:24 i wouldn't be so sure she's got much left in the tank speedwise. maybe 2:08-9? and about a 4:35 mile? would be a great race against the other top talents like Frias et. al for sure.
likewise, would be great to see Frias and Engelhardt in a 3200/2M v. Cook just to put any speculation to rest.
