Coffee Club breaks the news that Shelby has followed BTC to train in Flag….

another perspective wrote:

Like do Dathan's athletes not know that it's established fact that Dathan took thyroid meds from Doc Brown even when tests showed his thyroid levels were fine and healthy; doing so in his own words hoping to boost his testosterone levels? And that "Ritzenhein likely received [an L-Carnitine] infusion far in excess of 50mL" (that being the legal limit)?

..

Is this true. Can someone provide me a source for Ritz and unneeded thyroid meds

original liar soorer wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

Yet it was ultimately deemed intentional. She failed to rebut the presumption.

You continue to demonstrate that you still continue to refuse to read the rules; but still have had time to issue racists insults.

4 year ban. According to CAS, "deemed intentional". You should have asked an adult to explain this to you. They might also have told you your unfortunate IQ has nothing to do with your race.

Armstronglivs wrote:

original liar soorer wrote:

You continue to demonstrate that you still continue to refuse to read the rules; but still have had time to issue racists insults.

4 year ban. According to CAS, "deemed intentional". You should have asked an adult to explain this to you. They might also have told you your unfortunate IQ has nothing to do with your race.

Rek runner re explained the rules in the last 12 hrs or so.

But you refuse to read them.

Been told dozens of times but you are just content to spread racists taunts rather than read.

How are your WASP conventions booked for the year; you may find some fresh monkey insults.

original liar soorer wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

4 year ban. According to CAS, "deemed intentional". You should have asked an adult to explain this to you. They might also have told you your unfortunate IQ has nothing to do with your race.

Rek runner re explained the rules in the last 12 hrs or so.

But you refuse to read them.

Been told dozens of times but you are just content to spread racists taunts rather than read.

How are your WASP conventions booked for the year; you may find some fresh monkey insults.

Your incessant inane burbling about "the rules" means nothing: she was banned for 4 years for a violation that was deemed intentional by CAS. "Intentional" always means the opposite of unintentional, however it is used. It means CAS decided the nandrolone did not find its way into her body by accident.

Since you are obsessed with race, perhaps you could explain how your low intelligence is a feature of your race - since you are the only one seeking to make that point. It appears you subscribe to racial theories about intelligence - as racists typically do.

Armstronglivs wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

I do know the difference, but in this case, we are dealing with three separate likelihoods which are connected, but not interchangeable. "Possible" is only relevant in a narrow context to falsify ignorant claims of "not possible" or "impossible".

The question before the CAS was not how likely is it that the wrong pork ended up in a burrito in her stomach, but rather, based on the incomplete information before it, with the athlete bearing the full burden of providing evidence that may no longer exist, and bearing the full consequence for any such failures, how likely was it that the athlete's conduct was "not intentional", according to a broadened definition of "intent" specifically for this clause.

Yet it was ultimately deemed intentional. She failed to rebut the presumption.

The point is that your "crucial linguistic distinction" isn't "crucial", but rather quite irrelevant.

You refuse to read the rules esp in the context of the decision; which actually refers to the rules esp Rulw10.

You run away as soon as rule 10 is raised.

I have no interest in race only your racial insults

You have provided a raft of monkey insults and now raise eugenics associated with my race.

Utter utter shame of you to widen the money jibes directly to eugenics.

No wonder you had a go at BLM via a WASP perspective.

Eugenics on Letsrun !

The usual suspects are ruining another Shelby thread with the same neverending argument.

dullard wrote:

The usual suspects are ruining another Shelby thread with the same neverending argument.

What would be great is if rojo could establish a one thread and only thread policy for some of them, like he did for kip litton discussions.

rekrunner wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

Yet it was ultimately deemed intentional. She failed to rebut the presumption.

The point is that your "crucial linguistic distinction" isn't "crucial", but rather quite irrelevant.

You can't connect the features of the argument. An acknowledgement by CAS of what was "possible" does not rebut the presumption of intent on the grounds of probability - it was improbable in other words; if it was "likely" it may have. You see, words do mean what we think they mean.

You're the only one citing eugenics. I guess that makes you the racist here.

Armstronglivs wrote:

original liar soorer wrote:

You refuse to read the rules esp in the context of the decision; which actually refers to the rules esp Rulw10.

You run away as soon as rule 10 is raised.

I have no interest in race only your racial insults

You have provided a raft of monkey insults and now raise eugenics associated with my race.

Utter utter shame of you to widen the money jibes directly to eugenics.

No wonder you had a go at BLM via a WASP perspective.

Eugenics on Letsrun !

You're the only one citing eugenics. I guess that makes you the racist here.

You are a liar!

You raised eugenics by making reference to intelligence and race.

You are the one that rather snidely introduced race and intelligence, my race and its intelligence.

Faced with Rule 10 in the SH case you run away and seek solace in eugenics.

Monkey jibes and now intelligence and race.

You are a racist.

talent evaluator wrote:

dullard wrote:

The usual suspects are ruining another Shelby thread with the same neverending argument.

What would be great is if rojo could establish a one thread and only thread policy for some of them, like he did for kip litton discussions.

I am very happy to keep to whether SH is a cheat and thus the morality of others supporting her in her training but find that I am faced with vile insults when I do.

rojo wrote:

another perspective wrote:

Like do Dathan's athletes not know that it's established fact that Dathan took thyroid meds from Doc Brown even when tests showed his thyroid levels were fine and healthy; doing so in his own words hoping to boost his testosterone levels? And that "Ritzenhein likely received [an L-Carnitine] infusion far in excess of 50mL" (that being the legal limit)?

..

Is this true. Can someone provide me a source for Ritz and unneeded thyroid meds

Opening paragraph of this article:

[quote]Dathan Ritzenhein, an Olympic distance runner for the United States, was starting to feel sick from his thyroid medication — a drug that was not medically necessary but one that his coach, a powerful and combative figure in the sport, had strongly recommended to improve his performance.

Dathan's own testimony is quoted later on:

[quote]Ritzenhein and Salazar’s conversations moved from supplements to “synthetic thyroid,” Ritzenhein testified, saying it was “to help with low testosterone levels.” Blood work performed at Nike’s lab showed that Ritzenhein’s thyroid-stimulating hormone and his testosterone levels were both within the normal range. Regardless, Salazar sent him to see Dr. Jeffrey Stuart Brown, an endocrinologist who is known for his belief that synthetic thyroid medication enhances athletic performance. The next day, Dr. Brown prescribed Levoxyl, a thyroid drug.

The L-Carnitine Infusion bit is later in same article. The NYT source for all this is mostly Ritz' own testimony.

To be very clear, I'm not out here saying "cancel Dathan Ritzenhein." I just think track as a very short memory sometimes in just how much *everyone* is basically 1-2 degrees of separation away from someone who either did some illegal and got banned, or did something pretty shady but never got banned. The women on BTC trained with an athlete who got banned for nandrolone use, the athletes of OAC are coached by a guy who has admitted to taking medication he didn't need to enhance performance. In the podcast the Coffee Boys talk about not understanding how the women on BTC would tolerate having Shelby around; and I am very seriously saying if they are curious about peer pressure/coach pressure/ performance pressure and how it can make you stay in a situation you aren't comfortable, literally just ask your coach.

My general advice to athletes would be to stfu about throwing around terms like "bad for the sport." If similar rocks can't be thrown back at your glass house yet, the odds are pretty good that something sketch or unfortunate will happen to someone around you.

original liar soorer wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

You're the only one citing eugenics. I guess that makes you the racist here.

You are a liar!

You raised eugenics by making reference to intelligence and race.

You are the one that rather snidely introduced race and intelligence, my race and its intelligence.

Faced with Rule 10 in the SH case you run away and seek solace in eugenics.

Monkey jibes and now intelligence and race.

You are a racist.

Shouting in the mirror.

original liar soorer wrote:

talent evaluator wrote:

What would be great is if rojo could establish a one thread and only thread policy for some of them, like he did for kip litton discussions.

I am very happy to keep to whether SH is a cheat and thus the morality of others supporting her in her training but find that I am faced with vile insults when I do.

That's your reflection.

Opening paragraph of this article:

I can't believe Rojo doesn't know this??? There are literally several books and numerous news articles that specifically mention this.

The one thing I will note is that I will give Ritz a pass, because all indications are that he cooperated with the investigation into Salazar (unlike Galen). He's just never spoken publicly about it, but I can't really blame him for that.

Both thyroid and L-Carnitine are not banned by WADA. Why does anyone even care? It's like taking caffeine or multi-vitamins.

JBaller33 wrote:

I actually care for the rest of BTC if Shelby is somehow training with them. Each individual athlete can be suspended for 1 year if they have an association with her (although, as someone posted earlier, what kind of association is vague). This could literally suspend most of the talented US women’s distance runners in one swoop if they’re not careful, so that’s why I care, although I am starting to think that all those who remain at BTC are doping too.

The entire team and coaches should have all been banned anyway after the positive test .... Current punishments do very little to discourage doping.