This thread was originally titled, "Incredible development in the $612,000 Transcon Goodge run, currently ongoing" but the new title is more descriptive. The description of the run is here.
Someone commented above that the comments on Will's looks are false. They were talking about his frame. Twaddle! Can't count the amount of times I've heard him downplayed as just a model, or an Instagrammer on here. The dog whistles are deafening. He doesn't fit what YOU all think a runner should look like so that's the easy win. Low blow.
I don't want to sound rude but I don't think you have as much experience with running as lots of others do here.
Nowadays it's easy to go to Instagram and see Nick Bare or Ryan Hall or Goggins and say "Wow so a distance runner doesn't have to be a stick! These guys are buff" The reality is those guys are juiced and not performing at anywhere near the level of Goodge. To Joe Schmoe a 5 minute mile is the same as a 4 minute mile. A 3 hour marathon is the same as a 2:10. Influencers make people think their slightly above average performances with a more muscular build are close to elite, but that's far from the case.
I've been running way longer than Goodge, I'm way faster, I have a typical middle distance build and I'm still a good bit smaller than him. I'd 100% need to slim down to ever have a chance at anything like this. I'm too heavy for a marathon, let alone two a day for days on end.
I can't say for 100% certain he's cheating, but if I could place a $100 bet on it, I'd do it in a heartbeat.
Respectfully, , regardless of the amount of experience you have, there is NO standard build for a runner.
Hi all,here's an update on another thread about the British runner William Goodge doing Transcon at the moment and some worrying irregularities.Namely that he runs at 150-170bpm in the first two days of his multidayers, colla...
they've never said the HR is not surprising. Steve was speaking of other stuff, like pace and negative splits. And PK is all about tech fail.
You are the only one who clings to the life raft that the HR is physiologically possible... like, say 88bpm for a day.
Research on the 100 complete and incoming.
You are wrong on this. They did speak specifically about HR and how it leveled as they went on, even at lower numbers. a 12min pace at a 105 HR is completely possible for certain runners. But, you finding any examples of those surely wouldn't be shared because they don't support your narrative. You like to bring up that his HR at London was 170 for the marathon...he was running at a 9min-ish pace. That is far different than a 12-13min pace, no?
As I've mentioned before. Until "big tech fail" is ruled out, it is still a possibility. I define "big tech fail" as a data issue / conflict arising between the sensor devices (whoop, Garmin, coros) and the Strava app. We know there is syncing going on in the background and HR is a configurable field that can be pulled from many sources (including Apple health) It is possible that both WG and RB have (and have always had) this configured wrong. (Ie the 14000ks). I mean they did paint the van with a 64 instead of a 53 and chose a route that was 200 miles longer than necessary. It's possible they haven't set this tech stuff up correctly as well. To rule out big tech fail you have to compare the source data to what's in Strava, which Whoop will undoubtedly do when this is over.
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
I don't want to sound rude but I don't think you have as much experience with running as lots of others do here.
Nowadays it's easy to go to Instagram and see Nick Bare or Ryan Hall or Goggins and say "Wow so a distance runner doesn't have to be a stick! These guys are buff" The reality is those guys are juiced and not performing at anywhere near the level of Goodge. To Joe Schmoe a 5 minute mile is the same as a 4 minute mile. A 3 hour marathon is the same as a 2:10. Influencers make people think their slightly above average performances with a more muscular build are close to elite, but that's far from the case.
I've been running way longer than Goodge, I'm way faster, I have a typical middle distance build and I'm still a good bit smaller than him. I'd 100% need to slim down to ever have a chance at anything like this. I'm too heavy for a marathon, let alone two a day for days on end.
I can't say for 100% certain he's cheating, but if I could place a $100 bet on it, I'd do it in a heartbeat.
Respectfully, , regardless of the amount of experience you have, there is NO standard build for a runner.
I'd be very careful to imply that the people you mentioned, like Goggins, are "juiced."
I really can't tell if you're naive or arguing in bad faith. Yes, there is no standard build for an average runner. I can go and run a 100m and have some decent success at it even though I'm skinny. I'll blow the doors off an average person and clock in just under 12s. That's mind-bogglingly fast compared to your average person. However, my body isn't built to produce as much power as a world class sprinter and I know it. You could give me as many PEDs as you could imagine, and I'd never hold a candle to sub 10 guys. To deny something like this is foolish.
But, there is a standard build/set of standard traits for those in the elite category. Goodge is about to become one of the best to do it.That territory comes with a certain physique.Go show me someone coming in the top 10 at a world major marathon that looks like Goodge.I'll wait.
Denying that guys like Goggins and Hall and Bare are on some form of PEDs is also insane.
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
Reason provided:
typos
So Goodge says after this transcon he will be jetting all over the world to experience exotic cultures and cuisine. Trying new adventures like skydiving, surfing.
Who knew charity transcon running could be so lucrative?
I am sure that he will have more time on his hands because the world will soon be fully aware of cancer. Thanks to him.
I really can't tell if you're naive or arguing in bad faith. Yes, there is no standard build for an average runner. I can go and run a 100m and have some decent success at it even though I'm skinny. I'll blow the doors off an average person and clock in just under 12s. That's mind-bogglingly fast compared to your average person. However, my body isn't built to produce as much power as a world class sprinter and I know it. You could give me as many PEDs as you could imagine, and I'd never hold a candle to sub 10 guys. To deny something like this is foolish.
But, there is a standard build/set of standard traits for those in the elite category. Goodge is about to become one of the best to do it.That territory comes with a certain physique.Go show me someone coming in the top 10 at a world major marathon that looks like Goodge.I'll wait.
Denying that guys like Goggins and Hall and Bare are on some form of PEDs is also insane.
I am neither naive nor arguing in bad faith. We are not talking about Goodge coming in top 10 at a world marathon. We are talking about him completing a TC. He has never portrayed himself as a world class sprinter. He is an endurance athlete. There is a massive difference between the two.
Insanity is more akin to just spewing that people are doping because they don't look the way you think they should. Insanity is stating people you don't know, have not seen their work ethic, must be doing something nefarious. Yet another example of the attempts to tear people down. I feel sorry for you if that is how you go through life, thinking the worst of people.
So Goodge says after this transcon he will be jetting all over the world to experience exotic cultures and cuisine. Trying new adventures like skydiving, surfing.
Who knew charity transcon running could be so lucrative?
I am sure that he will have more time on his hands because the world will soon be fully aware of cancer. Thanks to him.
totally Fu**ing Audacious!
Huh? Now your chastising him for things he might do AFTER the run? Now you're insinuating that he TC journey is going to pay for his future travels, with no basis whatsoever to lay claim to that?
To be clear, he should never do anything in his personal life other than support cancer? Anyone who supports a charity during a physical event/journey should be tarred and feathered if they do something else in their life that doesn't support that charity?
Insanity is more akin to just spewing that people are doping because they don't look the way you think they should. Insanity is stating people you don't know, have not seen their work ethic, must be doing something nefarious. Yet another example of the attempts to tear people down. I feel sorry for you if that is how you go through life, thinking the worst of people.
Insanity is more akin to believing someone is a good guy when he has already shown himself on video behaving like a jerk. Insanity is stating someone you don’t know, have not seen him run across the country faster than most people who’ve done it, must be legit. Yet another example of gullibility. I feel sorry for you if that is how you go through life, believing everything that someone tells you, no matter how incredible.
I really can't tell if you're naive or arguing in bad faith. Yes, there is no standard build for an average runner. I can go and run a 100m and have some decent success at it even though I'm skinny. I'll blow the doors off an average person and clock in just under 12s. That's mind-bogglingly fast compared to your average person. However, my body isn't built to produce as much power as a world class sprinter and I know it. You could give me as many PEDs as you could imagine, and I'd never hold a candle to sub 10 guys. To deny something like this is foolish.
But, there is a standard build/set of standard traits for those in the elite category. Goodge is about to become one of the best to do it.That territory comes with a certain physique.Go show me someone coming in the top 10 at a world major marathon that looks like Goodge.I'll wait.
Denying that guys like Goggins and Hall and Bare are on some form of PEDs is also insane.
I am neither naive nor arguing in bad faith. We are not talking about Goodge coming in top 10 at a world marathon. We are talking about him completing a TC. He has never portrayed himself as a world class sprinter. He is an endurance athlete. There is a massive difference between the two.
Insanity is more akin to just spewing that people are doping because they don't look the way you think they should. Insanity is stating people you don't know, have not seen their work ethic, must be doing something nefarious. Yet another example of the attempts to tear people down. I feel sorry for you if that is how you go through life, thinking the worst of people.
So I'm pretty sure it's bad faith, but I'll humor you.
I know he's not a sprinter, I was just giving an example. I know he's not doing a marathon major, I was just giving an example. We're talking about him becoming one of the best ever to do a TC. He is portraying himself as one of the best multiday endurance athletes ever.
As for PEDs, I doubt Goodge is on them, but he could be. I doubt he's getting tested, so we'll never know. We know microdosing EPO and test is pretty easy to get away with. But thinking these hybrid athletes aren't on them is straight up foolish. Do you think IBFF pros are clean, because they say they are? Do you think the powerlifting federations that say "We don't test for steroids but our athletes don't take them," are clean? Maybe Goggins is clean, maybe Hall is clean, maybe Bare is clean, but the odds are stacked against them.
As for work ethic. Internet hustle culture/influencers love to tell people that they can achieve great things with hard work. It literally pays their bills. In general it's true that great work ethic yields results. But you can't hard-work your way to every single goal. That's just reality, some things are unachievable. There's limitations of talent. It's extremely prominent with running influencers. ANYONE can start running and see great returns very fast. You can go from not running at all to completing a marathon in a year. A noob can naively believe, "Well, if I just train a bit harder I can turn my 4:30 marathon into a 2:10 marathon." The odds are that they'll never come close to a 2:10, they're quite literally not born with the tools to get there. I broke 2:00 for the 800 when I was in high school. I had multiple non-runners or casual runners say, "Wow, so with a bit more training you can break 4:00 for a mile." To them it sounded sane and plausible, to someone who knows the grind, it's an insane proposition.
Yep! I thought I was clear about that in my first post to be honest. The wild nature of this message board has already seen me called a disciple of Will's and even accused of being in Will's camp. Which seems right on brand for the majority of posters' method of going 1-100 in a flash. Doesn't make sense so it MUST BE the least logical conclusion right? IT'S ALL A CONSPIRACY. I was following the run and did a Google search to find out more and this message board came up. Sorry I didn't realise there was an initiation to post.
Someone commented above that the comments on Will's looks are false. They were talking about his frame. Twaddle! Can't count the amount of times I've heard him downplayed as just a model, or an Instagrammer on here. The dog whistles are deafening. He doesn't fit what YOU all think a runner should look like so that's the easy win. Low blow.
Sorry OP, not all aimed at you this, just a round up of various replies.
That is supposed to be the beauty of this site...you can voice your opinions without being slammed...oh wait...I must be on the wrong site :)
To be clear on one thing: I wasn't implying you are a disciple of Will. That was intended for Pradel. I agree with you on your various questions. Far too many have just jumped on the bandwagon of "this must be a fraud. After all, look at the HR. Shame!"
I, too, thought that runners come in all shapes and sizes...tall, short, skinny, built, overweight, and on and on. But, according the the "governors of this site", there is only one traditional build of a multi-day runner. And, there is only one acceptable way of showing your effort...you must show you are suffering and in pain. Otherwise, it must be fake.
Exactly. In the same way there's only one shape of footballer with the perfect biomechanics. And that shape is Peter Crouch...or is it Wayne Rooney...maybe Michael Owen?
As for Eddie Izzard. That nugget wasn't aimed at her breaking world records. Read my quote again. That was my defence for those saying Will has no historical athletic credibility in the past (also false). As if it can never be someone's first event. Bloody hard to get started then according to you lot isn't it? 48/30. MDS. JOGLE. But nah, he just woke up and decided to run across America one day... Eddie banged out a pretty impressive feat with no athletic past. Which according to you lot means it was fake.
Except that's not how he goes through life. (Feigned) naivety is how he's attempting to deflect scrutiny for his OBVIOUS shilling. Recruiter - it's painfully obvious, go home. You're only blowing the team's cover at this point
Exactly. In the same way there's only one shape of footballer with the perfect biomechanics. And that shape is Peter Crouch...or is it Wayne Rooney...maybe Michael Owen?
Soccer's way different than running, it's an open field sport. There's different positions and different play styles and different team dynamics. Running has much more strictly defined parameters for success.
To be an elite sprinter you need:
- To be strong
- Fast twitch muscle fibers
- Long, springy lower leg tendons to maximize stretch shortening cycle (this is a fun one, read here: )
In this study we investigated the relationships between muscle-tendon parameters and average/peak values of velocity, force and power in sprint running focusing on the acceleration phase. Eighteen male sprinters (100 m PB: 10...
- You're somewhere around 6'. Shorter sprinters tend to favor the 60 and 100 (Coleman), taller ones favor the 200 and 400 (Johnson, Norman). Bolt was a freak but checked all the other boxes
To be an elite distance runner you need:
- High Vo2 max, something you're largely born with
- Mostly slow twitch muscle fibers but you need some speed depending on your event
- Long leg to torso ratio
- Light weight, minimal upper body mass
- Short. Your surface area scales squared to your height. The name of the game is efficiency and cooling. Harder to cool the taller you get. Solinsky was a freak.
All the "freaks"/outliers like Bolt and Solinsky had a lengthy history of being great runners despite not totally fitting the mold. Goodge does not have this history nor does he have the build. THIS is what makes it a red flag.
This post was edited 5 minutes after it was posted.
Reason provided:
typo
If you check social media you will see that Goodge is much loved. His fans are showering him with praise for this superhuman effort. So why does he not post his new altered route to New York so people can get out and cheer him on?
It is like denying the thousands that line the Champs-Élysées at the end of the Tour de France by taking a detour and not telling anyone where to go to see the action.
So I'm pretty sure it's bad faith, but I'll humor you.
I know he's not a sprinter, I was just giving an example. I know he's not doing a marathon major, I was just giving an example. We're talking about him becoming one of the best ever to do a TC. He is portraying himself as one of the best multiday endurance athletes ever.
As for PEDs, I doubt Goodge is on them, but he could be. I doubt he's getting tested, so we'll never know. We know microdosing EPO and test is pretty easy to get away with. But thinking these hybrid athletes aren't on them is straight up foolish. Do you think IBFF pros are clean, because they say they are? Do you think the powerlifting federations that say "We don't test for steroids but our athletes don't take them," are clean? Maybe Goggins is clean, maybe Hall is clean, maybe Bare is clean, but the odds are stacked against them.
As for work ethic. Internet hustle culture/influencers love to tell people that they can achieve great things with hard work. It literally pays their bills. In general it's true that great work ethic yields results. But you can't hard-work your way to every single goal. That's just reality, some things are unachievable. There's limitations of talent. It's extremely prominent with running influencers. ANYONE can start running and see great returns very fast. You can go from not running at all to completing a marathon in a year. A noob can naively believe, "Well, if I just train a bit harder I can turn my 4:30 marathon into a 2:10 marathon." The odds are that they'll never come close to a 2:10, they're quite literally not born with the tools to get there. I broke 2:00 for the 800 when I was in high school. I had multiple non-runners or casual runners say, "Wow, so with a bit more training you can break 4:00 for a mile." To them it sounded sane and plausible, to someone who knows the grind, it's an insane proposition.
Since you don't know me, please don't assume that I do anything in bad faith...
He put a marketing statement of trying to be the fastest Englishmen to run across America. There are a whole lot more countries than the US and England. I didn't see on their van or website where he is saying best MD athlete ever.
Sure, he could be, just as you could be or I could be. Anything is possible, right? Why are the odds stacked against those three you mentioned? Because of what?
You are absolutely correct, in that you can't 'hard work your way' into every goal. But, what's the hard in them giving people belief that they can do better. Someone who becomes inspired by Goggins, or Goodge for that matter, and where they work a bit harder and improve from a 4:30 marathon to a 4hr or 3:55 marathon. Those are improvements worth being inspired about.
Why not see the good from the influencers who don't just say it, but SHOW it? I don't know if there is disdain, disbelief, or just outright contempt for them from you.
Except that's not how he goes through life. (Feigned) naivety is how he's attempting to deflect scrutiny for his OBVIOUS shilling. Recruiter - it's painfully obvious, go home. You're only blowing the team's cover at this point
Golly gee, you figured me out. I'm the tall skinny guy in the van. It has been made abundantly clear that I am not part of their crew if you'd followed along these pages. So, it's rather short sided of you to attempt to dismiss me away.
I'm not naïve nor do I deflect scrutiny. I am challenging the doubters and raising questions against those who simple belief that it isn't possible for WG to be able to do this. And, I won't stop until the doubting and slanderous statements stop. Stop trying to tear people down.
If you check social media you will see that Goodge is much loved. His fans are showering him with praise for this superhuman effort. So why does he not post his new altered route to New York so people can get out and cheer him on?
It is like denying the thousands that line the Champs-Élysées at the end of the Tour de France by taking a detour and not telling anyone where to go to see the action.
Weird.
Why ask this question on here? Why not DM either WG or RB in a non-accusatory way and ask what the new route is so that you/others can cheer them on?
If you check social media you will see that Goodge is much loved. His fans are showering him with praise for this superhuman effort. So why does he not post his new altered route to New York so people can get out and cheer him on?
It is like denying the thousands that line the Champs-Élysées at the end of the Tour de France by taking a detour and not telling anyone where to go to see the action.
Weird.
Why ask this question on here? Why not DM either WG or RB in a non-accusatory way and ask what the new route is so that you/others can cheer them on?
So I'm pretty sure it's bad faith, but I'll humor you.
I know he's not a sprinter, I was just giving an example. I know he's not doing a marathon major, I was just giving an example. We're talking about him becoming one of the best ever to do a TC. He is portraying himself as one of the best multiday endurance athletes ever.
As for PEDs, I doubt Goodge is on them, but he could be. I doubt he's getting tested, so we'll never know. We know microdosing EPO and test is pretty easy to get away with. But thinking these hybrid athletes aren't on them is straight up foolish. Do you think IBFF pros are clean, because they say they are? Do you think the powerlifting federations that say "We don't test for steroids but our athletes don't take them," are clean? Maybe Goggins is clean, maybe Hall is clean, maybe Bare is clean, but the odds are stacked against them.
As for work ethic. Internet hustle culture/influencers love to tell people that they can achieve great things with hard work. It literally pays their bills. In general it's true that great work ethic yields results. But you can't hard-work your way to every single goal. That's just reality, some things are unachievable. There's limitations of talent. It's extremely prominent with running influencers. ANYONE can start running and see great returns very fast. You can go from not running at all to completing a marathon in a year. A noob can naively believe, "Well, if I just train a bit harder I can turn my 4:30 marathon into a 2:10 marathon." The odds are that they'll never come close to a 2:10, they're quite literally not born with the tools to get there. I broke 2:00 for the 800 when I was in high school. I had multiple non-runners or casual runners say, "Wow, so with a bit more training you can break 4:00 for a mile." To them it sounded sane and plausible, to someone who knows the grind, it's an insane proposition.
Since you don't know me, please don't assume that I do anything in bad faith...
He put a marketing statement of trying to be the fastest Englishmen to run across America. There are a whole lot more countries than the US and England. I didn't see on their van or website where he is saying best MD athlete ever.
Sure, he could be, just as you could be or I could be. Anything is possible, right? Why are the odds stacked against those three you mentioned? Because of what?
You are absolutely correct, in that you can't 'hard work your way' into every goal. But, what's the hard in them giving people belief that they can do better. Someone who becomes inspired by Goggins, or Goodge for that matter, and where they work a bit harder and improve from a 4:30 marathon to a 4hr or 3:55 marathon. Those are improvements worth being inspired about.
Why not see the good from the influencers who don't just say it, but SHOW it? I don't know if there is disdain, disbelief, or just outright contempt for them from you.
But all of the potential good is undermined if the "influencers" are frauds! Faith healers, nutrition-flaks, motivational speakers, etc, all give people hope and make people feel better-- at least temporarily. But when they are revealed to be embellishing their claims (to put it as gently as possible) all that good feeling is erased, and then some.
Are you not the least bit suspicious that these guys are aware that they are being critically scrutinize as we speak, and yet are not taking even the simplest steps-- simple if they are operating completely above board-- to reassure potential sceptics? You'd think the animosity they clearly feel towards some of these sceptics would be incentive enough to want to silence them once and for all, wouldn't you? It's not a matter of owing anyone an explanation; it's a matter of taking simple steps to avoid the perception of fraud in an undertaking that is fraught with the potential for it.
Umm, isn't this the very definition in good faith? "In bad faith" would be messaging them and saying "I know you're faking this! You aren't sharing your route, you fraud. Where are you running next?" Please educate me on how this my statement was in bad faith.
Since you don't know me, please don't assume that I do anything in bad faith...
He put a marketing statement of trying to be the fastest Englishmen to run across America. There are a whole lot more countries than the US and England. I didn't see on their van or website where he is saying best MD athlete ever.
Sure, he could be, just as you could be or I could be. Anything is possible, right? Why are the odds stacked against those three you mentioned? Because of what?
You are absolutely correct, in that you can't 'hard work your way' into every goal. But, what's the hard in them giving people belief that they can do better. Someone who becomes inspired by Goggins, or Goodge for that matter, and where they work a bit harder and improve from a 4:30 marathon to a 4hr or 3:55 marathon. Those are improvements worth being inspired about.
Why not see the good from the influencers who don't just say it, but SHOW it? I don't know if there is disdain, disbelief, or just outright contempt for them from you.
Since you don't know me, don't assume there's disdain, disbelief, or just outright contempt for them from me. See how easy it is to be faux-outraged and paint the other person as the bad guy?
I never said he was trying to be the best MD athlete ever. For the record, I also never said he was trying to win a world major marathon or be an elite sprinter. He's very clearly trying to become an elite multi-day athlete.
The odds are stacked up against all those hybrid athlete goofballs when it comes to PEDs. They're on the same playing field as bodybuilders, powerlifters, and crossfitters in that they are participating in a sport with minimal to zero drug testing. Views and likes and wins turn into money and sponsorships. The crazier you look, the crazier stuff you do, the more money you could get. Did you believe Liver King was clean too, even though he had beet red skin, poor max lifts, and insane vascularity? When there's money on the line, people cheat. That's just a fact as old as time. It doesn't mean everyone cheats, but you should probably watch Icarus and read about corporate and government sponsored doping programs and try to understand how PEDs have played a role in the sporting world and how that's slipped into the social media sphere.
Why not see the good that multi-level marketing schemes do? Some people become extraordinarily wealthy from them! At the very least, the people who participate can learn to work hard. If this guy was just trying to inspire people, there'd be no problem. However, we've got very valid reasons to believe this guy is up to something, while people are handing him money AND he's going for a record.
