We don't need a million thread on this topic. We like one thread per topic. We merged several others into this thread including one called "Alex Pretti was a deranged lunatic." and one called "New York Times reports that Pretti attacked ICE cars 11 days before his death" and one called "LeBron James: Why hasn't he commented on the Alex Pretti killing?"
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Harambe wrote:
pupilpie wrote:
one more time.
Yes, Pretti was shot in the back. As he got up while resisting arrest, with his right hand invisible, and officers shouting get down etc etc. at this point the RESPONSIBILITY of officers is to use deadly force to remove the threat. the fact he was shot in the back is basically irrelevant. Poeple going on about this live in a movie world, not real life.
was he unarmed? we dont know. we do know that ONE gun had been removed by one LEO, but we also know that many, if not all of the other officers, didnt know this, and there fore their reasonable perception is that he was armed.
furthermore, since a confrontation is a fluid thing, what does unarmed mean? if you have an automatic weapon and keep unloading at LEO, then stand up and drop it the moment you are shot, were you armed? according to absolute fact, maybe not, but to all intents and purposes - yes.
So you’re saying the officers were mistaken? And because of that mistake they killed an unarmed man by shooting him in the back. Interesting
if you are incapable of following reasoning. maybe this is why poeple ignore you.
let me help. In a fast moving fluid situation, the leos cant establish facts, they have to go off perception and training. Therefore the outcome of this case, whilst tragic, is within reason.
so, yes, they were possibly mistaken that ONE handgun was removed. they were not mistaken that the guy getting up, being told to get down, violently resisting arrest, was an imminent threat and they had been trained to us deadly force in exactly those circujmstances.
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pupil3142 wrote:
Harambe wrote:
So you’re saying the officers were mistaken? And because of that mistake they killed an unarmed man by shooting him in the back. Interesting
if you are incapable of following reasoning. maybe this is why poeple ignore you.
let me help. In a fast moving fluid situation, the leos cant establish facts, they have to go off perception and training. Therefore the outcome of this case, whilst tragic, is within reason.
so, yes, they were possibly mistaken that ONE handgun was removed. they were not mistaken that the guy getting up, being told to get down, violently resisting arrest, was an imminent threat and they had been trained to us deadly force in exactly those circujmstances.
There actions were 100% against the most basic elements of law enforcement training. No one announced that the weapon had been secured. That left agents to believe that Pretti had a weapon on him. If you were a police cadet and messed that up during training role play, that could get you tossed from the academy.
But the next problem is even worse. Once someone announces "gun", the next step is to tell the suspect to drop the weapon. A lot of times people will pull out a weapon they have on them so they can drop it and show that they are not armed or try to throw the weapon down a sewer to hide it, etc. And some people will pull a weapon to try and kill themselves. You cannot open fire unless you see that someone is in the process of raising a weapon in the direction of law enforcement and has not responded to demands to drop the weapon. Police across the country genuinely fear being charged for murder arising out of an unnecessary force shooting that kills someone. When police go to jail, they serve their entire sentence in solitary confinement because they will be killed if they are placed in the general population. When you command someone to drop a weapon and they do not comply, that goes a long way in avoiding criminal charges.
Even worse still, the first shot may have been an accidental discharge. If that happens, you have to immediately announce to the other officers that they need to hold their fire to keep them from thinking that they need to return fire.
And the big problem is that most of the agents involved were CBP who were used to dealing with cartel members, mules and coyotes who do not hesitate to take a shot at them if they need to. And when a guy covered in gang tattoos is killed by CBP, no one cares. So, they are totally amped up to use lethal force and are on a hair trigger all the time. They should not be working crowd control and engaging with protestors. ICE should be engaging with local law enforcement to have them handle crowd control.
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pupil3142 wrote:
Harambe wrote:
So you’re saying the officers were mistaken? And because of that mistake they killed an unarmed man by shooting him in the back. Interesting
if you are incapable of following reasoning. maybe this is why poeple ignore you.
let me help. In a fast moving fluid situation, the leos cant establish facts, they have to go off perception and training. Therefore the outcome of this case, whilst tragic, is within reason.
so, yes, they were possibly mistaken that ONE handgun was removed. they were not mistaken that the guy getting up, being told to get down, violently resisting arrest, was an imminent threat and they had been trained to us deadly force in exactly those circujmstances.
That’s why they are trained to de-escalate because when you escalate the risk of deadly errors is higher.
Now tell me, is 7 guys forcing a dude to the ground and crowding around him with guns drawn de-escalation or escalation?
You admit they made a mistake. Now you need to follow the logic a little farther
PS - the amount of seething replies I get shows almost nobody is ignoring me, especially you
This post was edited 41 seconds after it was posted.55 -
Make Peace wrote:
Harambe wrote:
In this case, the libs are on the anti-authoritarian side.
You know, being against masked federal agents shooting unarmed people in the back
You didn’t answer the question.
Telling.
I’m a libertarian centrist as always, brother
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Even if you think the officers who killed Pretti were being negligent/mistaken rather than malicious, the law is clear that law enforcement must de-escalate.
panicking like a 7 year old when the guy next to you yells gun after he disarmed the guy and mag dumping is just embarrassing54 -
Most ICE agents are fat and unhealthy. They’re naturally in a state of biological stress due to drug and stimulant addiction too. This severely clouds judgement
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Harambe wrote:
Make Peace wrote:
You didn’t answer the question.
Telling.
I’m a libertarian centrist as always, brother
You referred to yourself as a leftist.
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Harambe wrote:
Make Peace wrote:
You didn’t answer the question.
Telling.
I’m a libertarian centrist as always, brother
Vaccine mandates are "libertarian"?
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TariffKing wrote:
Harambe wrote:
I’m a libertarian centrist as always, brother
Vaccine mandates are "libertarian"?
What mandates? Can corporations not make rules of employment? Free association is very libertarian
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Harambe wrote:
TariffKing wrote:
Vaccine mandates are "libertarian"?
What mandates? Can corporations not make rules of employment? Free association is very libertarian
Biden imposed a vaccine mandate.
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TariffKing wrote:
Harambe wrote:
What mandates? Can corporations not make rules of employment? Free association is very libertarian
Biden imposed a vaccine mandate.
Wrong. There was always a COVID test exception.
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Harambe wrote:
Most ICE agents are fat and unhealthy. They’re naturally in a state of biological stress due to drug and stimulant addiction too. This severely clouds judgement
A newly released Health Study shows obesity is way up for every category.
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