After being treated very poorly by the US government, the early church served:
https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/military-service
After being treated very poorly by the US government, the early church served:
https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/military-service
blamb61 wrote:
Please send me your money. wrote:
Systemic fraud starting with the very first mormons and deeply ingrained within the culture. There is no separation of secular, church and cultural within the mormon population. The very idea of individualism in the LDS community is nonexistent. Those very few bad apples that you reference are actually a huge number of bad apples, and is thus why Utah has by far the highest rate of fraud in the world. Fraud is condoned, encouraged and perpetrated by the leaders of the LDS. It is not up to us to prove the fraud, that is the the job of the Department of Justice, which has been investigating the LDS ongoing fraud for a long time. Maybe if they can grow a pair and defy the LDS Utah senators and representatives who vigorously try to protect the fraud, we can finally get some real justice and shut this ponzi scheme down.
Fraud is not encouraged by church leaders. One of the temple recommend questions to determine worthiness is, "Do you strive to be honest in all that you do?". You are not telling the truth!
How many scoutmasters have pledged to keep themselves “morally straight” and then went and molested their scouts?
How many catholic priests took a pledge of celibacy and raped altar boys?
How many fiduciaries have pledged to not steal and did it anyways?
How many times have politicians said one thing and did the exact opposite?
How many coaches preach honesty and then lie about the number of reps in a workout?
Just because your little message says you are “honest” doesn’t mean you actually are.
Scoutmaster Billy C wrote:
blamb61 wrote:
Fraud is not encouraged by church leaders. One of the temple recommend questions to determine worthiness is, "Do you strive to be honest in all that you do?". You are not telling the truth!
How many scoutmasters have pledged to keep themselves “morally straight” and then went and molested their scouts?
How many catholic priests took a pledge of celibacy and raped altar boys?
How many fiduciaries have pledged to not steal and did it anyways?
How many times have politicians said one thing and did the exact opposite?
How many coaches preach honesty and then lie about the number of reps in a workout?
Just because your little message says you are “honest” doesn’t mean you actually are.
If anyone has a credibility problem, it's not me.
blamb61 wrote:
Scoutmaster Billy C wrote:
How many scoutmasters have pledged to keep themselves “morally straight” and then went and molested their scouts?
How many catholic priests took a pledge of celibacy and raped altar boys?
How many fiduciaries have pledged to not steal and did it anyways?
How many times have politicians said one thing and did the exact opposite?
How many coaches preach honesty and then lie about the number of reps in a workout?
Just because your little message says you are “honest” doesn’t mean you actually are.
If anyone has a credibility problem, it's not me.
No one is questioning your credibility. It’s quite obvious you’re a Mormon. But you cannot argue that you are actually an honest person or that your faith is an honest faith just because the Mormon teachings says so.
blamb61 wrote:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSBRE8A11HA20121103
Fake news. Sad. Don't let the facts interfere with your fantasies.
blamb61 wrote:
http://www.ldsliving.com/General-Authorities-in-the-Military-In-Their-Own-Words/s/69913
Fake news. Sad. Don't let the facts interfere with your fantasies.
blamb61 wrote:
If anyone has a credibility problem, it's not me.
Fake news. Sad. Don't let the facts interfere with your fantasies.
blamb61 wrote:
They are Spineless Cowards and Thieves wrote:
Wow. Two leaders served, out of the First Presidency, Quorum of Twelve, Quorum of Seventy, General Authorities, Presiding Bishopric, etc.. Of the thousands who have held these positions, two served. Great patriotism.
Now, if you could find two who contributed to charity, I'd be impressed.
Dear observers, please note how this works. These people who defend avarice don't care about facts or truths. They don't care if something they say is easily and instantly disproved, as just occurred. No LDS leader served in the armed forces. Well, we searched high and low and found two who may have, if they are to be believed. This is in contrast to the organized and rampant draft dodging that went on in the LDS during WWI, WWII, Korea and Vietnam. These are not good people and should not be trusted. They hoard the money dunned from their congregations, there isn't a single miniscule shred of evidence that any LDS leader ever payed the required tithe, and they contribute to charity at a laughably pitiful and miserly rate. All the while they are pumping the contributions into money making private enterprises in which they have financial stakes, and doing it while defrauding the IRS by claiming that they should be tax exempt.
My dad served in the Korean war and I served in the National Guard and reserves, and you?
Fake news. Sad. Don't let the facts interfere with your fantasies.
blamb61 wrote:
Zoobies wrote:
blambs would fight to keep poor people from having any charity, but wouldn't lift a finger for this country. Guarantee that LDS would raise an army to protect that $100 billion just as vigorously as they duck serving to protect the USA.
My dad and I both served, and you?
Fake news. Sad. Don't let the facts interfere with your fantasies.
blamb61 wrote:
http://www.ldsliving.com/General-Authorities-in-the-Military-In-Their-Own-Words/s/69913
LDS media is the enemy of the people. Sick. Corrupt. Sad. Lock 'em up. Totally unreliable. Puppets of America's adversaries.
Now listen here bozo wrote:
But you cannot argue ...or that your faith is an honest faith just because the Mormon teachings says so.
And you can argue otherwise? What is your argument? That the Islamic Terrorist group ISIS has more redeeming qualities?
In addition to another clearly false statement that no leaders have served in the U.S. armed forces? That members are dishonest because Mitt Romney supposedly "dodged" (illegally) the draft? Is that your counter argument? Seems like some pathetic ground to stand on if you ask me.
Applying that same standard I could say that all of Jesus's disciples are corrupt because Judas Iscariot betrayed Jesus for lucre. All pet owners are torturers because pet owner Billy kicks his dog. All parents are abusers because parent Susan berates her children. All humans are evil because human Cain killed Abel.
If you are going to make untoward and weighty accusations, maybe try backing them up with more than small and petty arguments.
nofacetimber wrote:
Now listen here bozo wrote:
But you cannot argue ...or that your faith is an honest faith just because the Mormon teachings says so.
The Islamic Terrorist group ISIS has more redeeming qualities.
Applying that same standard I could say that all of Jesus's disciples are corrupt because Judas Iscariot betrayed Jesus for lucre. All pet owners are torturers because pet owner Billy kicks his dog. All parents are abusers because parent Susan berates her children. All humans are evil because human Cain killed Abel.
True. ISIS is less evil because they are at least up front about it. And comparing Romney to Judas is entirely apt. As is comparing Brigham Young to Cain. Good points.
I think you bashers must be trolls, no other explanation for your replies.
blamb61 wrote:
I think you bashers must be trolls, no other explanation for your replies.
Not bashers at all, but tellers of the truth, no matter how much it disturbs you to be exposed.
Brigham likes em young wrote:
blamb61 wrote:
I think you bashers must be trolls, no other explanation for your replies.
Not bashers at all, but tellers of the truth, no matter how much it disturbs you to be exposed.
True. It doesn't bother him to hear the truth because he knows the truth in his heart no matter what whopping prevarications he spins. What bothers him is that we know that he knows he is spewing falsehoods.
joseph smith's 27 preteen wives wrote:
Brigham likes em young wrote:
Not bashers at all, but tellers of the truth, no matter how much it disturbs you to be exposed.
True. It doesn't bother him to hear the truth because he knows the truth in his heart no matter what whopping prevarications he spins. What bothers him is that we know that he knows he is spewing falsehoods.
It's actually the other way around. You know you lie but don't care even if info is provided and easily obtained by a simple search. You also post anonymously and probably are one or two people acting like more.
I did serve in the military and my dad did also. And you? You never answered. You say I lie about that, how would you know? You don't know me. I was a 97E (Interrogator / Chinese linguist - served mission in Taiwan) in Utah (141st & 142nd MI Bn's) and California National Guard (don't remember unit number but drilled at end of zoo road in Daly City CA). My dad was drafted E-1 infantry for the Korean War. When he got there, they were lined up and were asked if anyone could type, he raised his had and was fortunate that he got placed in a clerical job and didn't have to go to combat. He was there two years then came home. He stayed in the Army reserves for 36-yrs total service. He went from E-1 to E-8 and then got a direct commission to 1st Lt after getting a master degree (was too old to be 2nd Lt). He was eventually promoted to O-6 (Colonel) and was even nominated for O-7 but turned it down and wanted to retire (we have his paperwork showing that). I only stayed in for one enlistment of 8-yrs and was an E-5 when I left. I enjoyed my little military stint and it helped me get through college (BYU - go Cougars!). I know you will say false news but I don't care because that doesn't change facts. I would really like to hear about your military service!
By the way. I think BYU will probably not get budget cuts and will probably get upgrades for new facilities due to their stellar performance.
nofacetimber wrote:
Now listen here bozo wrote:
But you cannot argue ...or that your faith is an honest faith just because the Mormon teachings says so.
And you can argue otherwise? What is your argument? That the Islamic Terrorist group ISIS has more redeeming qualities?
In addition to another clearly false statement that no leaders have served in the U.S. armed forces? That members are dishonest because Mitt Romney supposedly "dodged" (illegally) the draft? Is that your counter argument? Seems like some pathetic ground to stand on if you ask me.
Applying that same standard I could say that all of Jesus's disciples are corrupt because Judas Iscariot betrayed Jesus for lucre. All pet owners are torturers because pet owner Billy kicks his dog. All parents are abusers because parent Susan berates her children. All humans are evil because human Cain killed Abel.
If you are going to make untoward and weighty accusations, maybe try backing them up with more than small and petty arguments.
You people are so dense. I’m just pointing out that the outward message of an organization doesn’t always reflect the true values of that organization. You should be arguing based on the actions of the Mormons, and your opponents the same.
You just typed a couple paragraphs and completely failed to address my point, but instead chose to place words in my mouth.
I’m also not the one posting about the military argument.
You just don’t get it do you wrote:
You people are so dense. I’m just pointing out that the outward message of an organization doesn’t always reflect the true values of that organization. You should be arguing based on the actions of the Mormons, and your opponents the same.
You just typed a couple paragraphs and completely failed to address my point, but instead chose to place words in my mouth.
I’m also not the one posting about the military argument.
I don't know you "you" are or what "your" argument is because you're not using a stable username for this thread. If you keep changing it, it's your own fault if no one knows what your argument is.
If you'd like to establish that you're arguing in good faith, you could admit that people attacking the church for hating America have said some deeply dishonest and transparently false things about the church and its leaders. That would help establish that you care about truth more than you care about throwing mud on the church.
And you want us to argue based on the actions of Mormons. That's reasonable, but you have to come up with an equitable basis for that discussion. Do you want examples of individual charitable giving? Organized humanitarian action? We can work with that, but make up your mind first instead of moving the goal line later. Or do you want some kind of statistical evidence? That would be great, but it may not exist or be easy to find.
I also disagree that an organization's messaging is irrelevant. If you want to know if some behavior is promoted or opposed, it's highly relevant know if there is official support for it or not. An organization can still ask itself if it's living up to its ideals, but those official narratives still have an effect.
So what was it that you wanted us to demonstrate again, and what kind of evidence are you willing to accept?
You just don’t get it do you wrote:
I’m just pointing out that the outward message of an organization doesn’t always reflect the true values of that organization. You should be arguing based on the actions of the Mormons, and your opponents the same.
That's true and a fair point to make.
I don't know where you are coming from, that's why I was asking questions. I can only make some assumptions based on the context of the conversation. First off these attacks/accusations are totally unprovoked, and are largely false and off base. It's only natural to defend or espouse one's faith when it's treated in such a manner. This includes facts, as well as pointing out how in-congruent the accusations attacking the character of it's members are with the teachings of the faith.
Sure pointing out that the church teaches integrity and honesty does not in itself prove that members are honest. But it's still a valid point to consider. In my eyes you see the slander, the maltreatment. The justified response and defense of said treatment. Yet instead of denouncing the unreasonable treatment or accusations of others on this board. You side with such, calling blamb a bozo for rightfully defending his faith.