Two More Kenyans Provisionally Suspended For Doping Violations

zxcvczx wrote:

Lagat was the fastest Kenyan all-time at 1500m, 3:26.3, not Kiprop (3:26.69).

with a positive EPO sample.....way back when it was thought that kenyans have too good a smile and nice church going not even take asprin you moran stupidities! or however canova speaks when he tries to insult all of us morans.

just remember lagat used to battle hard with goucher, then somehow he became very Mo like and STRAIGHT up dominated.

but since he is an american now he MUST be clean right? lolz

i got banned wrote:

zxcvczx wrote:

Lagat was the fastest Kenyan all-time at 1500m, 3:26.3, not Kiprop (3:26.69).

with a positive EPO sample.....way back when it was thought that kenyans have too good a smile and nice church going not even take asprin you moran stupidities! or however canova speaks when he tries to insult all of us morans.

just remember lagat used to battle hard with goucher, then somehow he became very Mo like and STRAIGHT up dominated.

but since he is an american now he MUST be clean right? lolz

Neither the A sample nor the B sample had rhEPO.

The only trick that the East Africans have is open availability to drugs and lack of testing. It makes me so mad that people think these clowns are genetically advantages. If drugs weren’t a thing everyone including Kipchoge would be running 2:09-2:14 .

rekrunner wrote:

Africans aren't setting records like Geb and Komen in the 1990s and like El G and Bekele in the 2000s, but when you look a little deeper, say the number of top performances per decade, the are still a significant number of fast performances:

In the 1500m, 14 of the top 50 all time performances are from this decade (which is not yet finished).

In the 5000m, 13 of the top 50 are from this decade.

In the 10000m, 13 of the top 50 are from this decade.

In the marathon, 46 out of the top 50 are from this decade.

ukathleticscoach wrote:

Africans have slowed down on the track compared to 90's especially Kenyans. Ethiopia still has no virtually no testing out of competition.

well captian know it all, here is something to take a look at.

1500m, 14/50 in the last decade, my guess is most at monaco....and how many were done 2010-2012?

5000m, 13/50 in the last decade, again how many were done 2010-2012?

10000m, 13/50 in the last decade, again how many were done 2010-2012?

the one that should really blow open your mind but you insist to be naive and gullible...46/50...92%! and im sure 95% of those are from the last few years!

its not that hard if you have all the info that is needed to make EDUCATED hypothesis in this ordeal.

when was the first EPO test created? 2000

a better and more reliable test was made in 2004 i believe

then one came on to detect the 2nd generation EPO in 2008 (think ramzi)

bio passport was instated in 2009 in athletics (2008 for cycling), and the first BUST was 2012

so yeah tell me with your infanite amount of data and knowledge when all these times happened? im pretty sure the 5k was paris 2012 for most of the times, what did those guys ever taste time wise again?

next point, not only is testing WAAAAY more lax in road racing, its also harder logistically. how many people can be in a diamond league 5k? how many can be on the line for a half or marathon? how many are you going to test? the top 5? the top 50? your chance of getting a random for road racing is very slim if your not in the "pool" yet. prob the reason why Dubai has so many no name 2:04s year after year and then they run 2:08-09 and then disappear. sauce up hard, go run dubai, make money, get some sponsors, get off sauce and retire.

when

I don't claim to have all the facts. My comments above make it clear, that the best we can do is form estimates with what information we have. My view, generally, on an issue like this is that once the existence of the problem is established it is likely to be greater than that which we can see. That is the consensus of most anti-doping bodies and journalistic sources that have investigated doping.

However, the precise scale of the problem cannot be stated with certitude - at best it can only be approximate and is based on a degree of informed guesswork - and claims about individuals rely on circumstantial evidence in the absence of a doping violation.

If I sometimes simplify or appear to over-state what I say, to give the impression I am presenting incontrovertible fact, it is because this is social media and I am not trying to present a thesis on the topic. Nor do I care about the detail of every case argued here; I don't choose to count the blades of grass in order to know I am looking at a field.

But the one thing I maintain is that doping is pervasive in running events, as it is in all sports, and I doubt any real headway is being made to reduce its incidence. I am

also persuaded doping works - it offers advantage through its endless variety- and I doubt that athletes can now get to the top without it. For the rest, we are really only arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. I leave that to you and 'casual observer'.

1 3:26.00 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 1 Roma 14.07.1998

2 3:26.12 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 1 Bruxelles 24.08.2001

3 3:26.34 Bernard Lagat KEN 12.12.74 2 Bruxelles 24.08.2001

4 3:26.45 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 1rA Zürich 12.08.1998

5 3:26.69 Asbel Kiprop KEN 30.06.89 1 Monaco 17.07.2015

6 3:26.89 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 1rA Zürich 16.08.2002

7 3:26.96 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 1 Rieti 08.09.2002

8 3:27.21 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 1rA Zürich 11.08.2000

9 3:27.34 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 1 Monaco 19.07.2002

10 3:27.37 Noureddine Morceli ALG 28.02.70 1 Nice 12.07.1995

11 3:27.40 Bernard Lagat KEN 12.12.74 1 Zürich 06.08.2004

12 3:27.52 Noureddine Morceli ALG 28.02.70 1 Monaco 25.07.1995

13 3:27.64 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 2 Zürich 06.08.2004

13 3:27.64 Silas Kiplagat KEN 20.08.89 1 Monaco 18.07.2014

15 3:27.65 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 1 Sevilla 24.08.1999

16 3:27.72 Asbel Kiprop KEN 30.06.89 1 Monaco 19.07.2013 busted EPO

17 3:27.91 Bernard Lagat KEN 12.12.74 2 Monaco 19.07.2002

18 3:28.12 Noah Ngeny KEN 02.11.78 2rA Zürich 11.08.2000

19 3:28.21+ Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 1 Roma 07.07.1999

20 3:28.37 Noureddine Morceli ALG 28.02.70 1 Monaco 09.09.1995

20 3:28.37 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 1 Monaco 08.08.1998

22 3:28.38 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 1 Saint-Denis 06.07.2001

23 3:28.40 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 1 Bruxelles 05.09.2003

24 3:28.41 Timothy Cheruiyot KEN 20.11.95 1 Monaco 20.07.2018

25 3:28.45 Asbel Kiprop KEN 30.06.89 2 Monaco 18.07.2014 busted EPO

26 3:28.51 Bernard Lagat KEN 12.12.74 3rA Zürich 11.08.2000

27 3:28.57 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 1rA Zürich 11.08.1999

28 3:28.6+ Noah Ngeny KEN 02.11.78 2 Roma 07.07.1999

29 3:28.73 Noah Ngeny KEN 02.11.78 2 Sevilla 24.08.1999

30 3:28.75 Taoufik Makhloufi ALG 29.04.88 2 Monaco 17.07.2015

31 3:28.77 Timothy Cheruiyot KEN 20.11.95 1 Lausanne 05.07.2019

32 3:28.79 Abdelati Iguider MAR 25.03.87 3 Monaco 17.07.2015

33 3:28.80 Elijah Manangoi KEN 05.01.93 1 Monaco 21.07.2017

34 3:28.81 Mohamed Farah GBR 23.03.83 2 Monaco 19.07.2013

34 3:28.81 Ronald Kwemoi KEN 18.09.95 3 Monaco 18.07.2014

36 3:28.84 Noah Ngeny KEN 02.11.78 1 Paris 21.07.1999

37 3:28.86 Noureddine Morceli ALG 28.02.70 1 Rieti 06.09.1992

38 3:28.88 Asbel Kiprop KEN 30.06.89 1 Monaco 20.07.2012 busted EPO

39 3:28.91 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 1rA Zürich 13.08.1997

40 3:28.92 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 1 Bruxelles 22.08.1997

41 3:28.93 Noah Ngeny KEN 02.11.78 1 München 11.09.1999

41 3:28.93 Mohamed Farah GBR 23.03.83 4 Monaco 17.07.2015

43 3:28.95 Fermin Cacho ESP 16.02.69 2rA Zürich 13.08.1997

44 3:28.98 Mehdi Baala FRA 17.08.78 2 Bruxelles 05.09.2003

45 3:29.02 Daniel Kipchirchir Komen KEN 27.11.84 1r2 Roma 14.07.2006

46 3:29.05 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 1 Bruxelles 23.08.1996

47 3:29.06 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 1rA Zürich 17.08.2001

48 3:29.08 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 1 Rieti 02.09.2001

49 3:29.10 Timothy Cheruiyot KEN 20.11.95 2 Monaco 21.07.2017

50 3:29.12 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 1 Oslo 09.07.1998

again how many were monaco? yeah thats right, a rigged track and a doped up kiprop. so your "theory" has holes buddy

1 12:37.35 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Hengelo 31.05.2004

2 12:39.36 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Helsinki 13.06.1998

3 12:39.74 Daniel Komen KEN 17.05.76 1 Bruxelles 22.08.1997

4 12:40.18 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Saint-Denis 01.07.2005

5 12:41.86 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Zürich 13.08.1997

6 12:43.02 Selemon Barega ETH 20.01.00 1 Bruxelles 31.08.2018

7 12:44.39 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Zürich 16.08.1995

8 12:44.90 Daniel Komen KEN 17.05.76 2 Zürich 13.08.1997

9 12:45.09 Daniel Komen KEN 17.05.76 1 Zürich 14.08.1996

10 12:45.82 Hagos Gebrhiwet ETH 11.05.94 2 Bruxelles 31.08.2018

11 12:46.53 Eliud Kipchoge KEN 05.11.84 1 Roma 02.07.2004

12 12:46.79 Yomif Kejelcha ETH 01.08.97 3 Bruxelles 31.08.2018

13 12:46.81 Dejen Gebremeskel ETH 24.11.89 1 Saint-Denis 06.07.2012

14 12:47.04 Sileshi Sihine ETH 29.01.83 2 Roma 02.07.2004

15 12:47.53 Hagos Gebrhiwet ETH 11.05.94 2 Saint-Denis 06.07.2012

16 12:48.09 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Bruxelles 25.08.2006

17 12:48.25 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Zürich 18.08.2006

18 12:48.64 Isiah Koech KEN 19.12.93 3 Saint-Denis 06.07.2012

19 12:48.66 Issac Songok KEN 25.04.84 2 Zürich 18.08.2006

20 12:48.77 Yenew Alamirew ETH 27.05.90 4 Saint-Denis 06.07.2012

21 12:48.81 Stephen Cherono KEN 15.10.82 1 Ostrava 12.06.2003

22 12:48.98 Daniel Komen KEN 17.05.76 1 Roma 05.06.1997

23 12:49.04 Thomas Longosiwa KEN 14.01.82 5 Saint-Denis 06.07.2012

24 12:49.28 Brahim Lahlafi MAR 15.04.68 1 Bruxelles 25.08.2000

25 12:49.50 John Kipkoech KEN 29.12.91 6 Saint-Denis 06.07.2012

26 12:49.53 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Zaragoza 28.07.2007

27 12:49.64 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Zürich 11.08.1999

28 12:49.71 Mohammed Mourhit BEL 10.10.70 2 Bruxelles 25.08.2000

29 12:49.87 Paul Tergat KEN 17.06.69 3 Zürich 13.08.1997

30 12:50.16 Sileshi Sihine ETH 29.01.83 1 Bruxelles 14.09.2007

31 12:50.18 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Zürich 29.08.2008

32 12:50.22 Eliud Kipchoge KEN 05.11.84 1 Bruxelles 26.08.2005

33 12:50.24 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 2 Ostrava 12.06.2003

34 12:50.25 Abderrahim Goumri MAR 21.05.76 2 Bruxelles 26.08.2005

35 12:50.38 Eliud Kipchoge KEN 05.11.84 2 Bruxelles 14.09.2007

36 12:50.55 Moses Masai KEN 01.06.86 1 Berlin 01.06.2008

37 12:50.72 Moses Kipsiro UGA 02.09.86 3 Bruxelles 14.09.2007

38 12:50.80 Salah Hissou MAR 16.01.72 1 Roma 05.06.1996

39 12:50.86 Ali Saïdi-Sief ALG 15.03.78 1 Roma 30.06.2000

40 12:51.00 Joseph Ebuya KEN 20.06.87 4 Bruxelles 14.09.2007

41 12:51.21 Eliud Kipchoge KEN 05.11.84 1 Ad-Dawhah 14.05.2010

42 12:51.32 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Saint-Denis 08.07.2006

43 12:51.34 Edwin Cheruiyot Soi KEN 03.03.86 1 Monaco 19.07.2013

44 12:51.44 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Roma 14.07.2006

45 12:51.45 Vincent Chepkok KEN 05.07.88 2 Ad-Dawhah 14.05.2010

46 12:51.60 Daniel Komen KEN 17.05.76 1 Stockholm 08.07.1996

47 12:51.95 Thomas Longosiwa KEN 14.01.82 5 Bruxelles 14.09.2007

48 12:51.96 Albert Rop BRN 17.07.92 2 Monaco 19.07.2013

49 12:51.98 Saif Saeed Shaheen QAT 15.10.82 2 Roma 14.07.2006

50 12:52.26 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Oslo 27.06.2003

so like i thought most are from that 2012 meet. how many of them have done fast since then? 1, only one

1 26:17.53 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Bruxelles 26.08.2005

2 26:20.31 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Ostrava 08.06.2004

3 26:22.75 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Hengelo 01.06.1998

4 26:25.97 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Eugene 08.06.2008

5 26:27.85 Paul Tergat KEN 17.06.69 1 Bruxelles 22.08.1997

6 26:28.72 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Hengelo 29.05.2005

7 26:29.22 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Bruxelles 05.09.2003

8 26:30.03 Nicholas Kemboi KEN 25.11.83 2 Bruxelles 05.09.2003

9 26:30.74 Abebe Dinkesa Negera ETH 06.03.84 2 Hengelo 29.05.2005

10 26:31.32 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Oslo 04.07.1997

11 26:35.63 Micah Kogo KEN 03.06.86 1 Bruxelles 25.08.2006

12 26:36.26 Paul Koech KEN 25.06.69 2 Bruxelles 22.08.1997

13 26:37.25 Zersenay Tadese ERI 08.02.82 2 Bruxelles 25.08.2006

14 26:38.08 Salah Hissou MAR 16.01.72 1 Bruxelles 23.08.1996

15 26:38.76 Abdullah Ahmad Hassan QAT 29.07.81 3 Bruxelles 05.09.2003

16 26:39.69 Sileshi Sihine ETH 29.01.83 1 Hengelo 31.05.2004

17 26:39.77 Boniface Kiprop UGA 12.10.85 2 Bruxelles 26.08.2005

18 26:41.58 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 2 Hengelo 31.05.2004

19 26:41.75 Samuel Wanjiru KEN 10.11.86 3 Bruxelles 26.08.2005

20 26:41.95 Boniface Kiprop UGA 12.10.85 3 Bruxelles 25.08.2006

21 26:43.16 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Bruxelles 16.09.2011

22 26:43.53 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Hengelo 05.06.1995

23 26:43.98 Lucas Rotich KEN 16.04.90 2 Bruxelles 16.09.2011

24 26:44.36 Galen Rupp USA 08.05.86 1 Eugene 30.05.2014

25 26:46.19 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Bruxelles 14.09.2007

26 26:46.31 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Berlin 17.08.2009

27 26:46.44 Paul Tergat KEN 17.06.69 1 Bruxelles 28.08.1998

28 26:46.57 Mohamed Farah GBR 23.03.83 1 Eugene 03.06.2011

29 26:47.89 Paul Koech KEN 25.06.69 2 Bruxelles 28.08.1998

30 26:48.00 Galen Rupp USA 08.05.86 3 Bruxelles 16.09.2011

31 26:48.35 Imane Merga ETH 15.10.88 2 Eugene 03.06.2011

32 26:48.73 Sileshi Sihine ETH 29.01.83 1 Hengelo 26.05.2007

33 26:48.99 Josphat Bett KEN 12.06.90 3 Eugene 03.06.2011

34 26:49.02 Eliud Kipchoge KEN 05.11.84 2 Hengelo 26.05.2007

35 26:49.20 Moses Masai KEN 01.06.86 2 Bruxelles 14.09.2007

36 26:49.38 Sammy Kipketer KEN 29.09.81 1 Bruxelles 30.08.2002

37 26:49.41 Paul Tanui KEN 22.12.90 2 Eugene 30.05.2014

38 26:49.51 Mohamed Farah GBR 23.03.83 1 London 04.08.2017

39 26:49.55 Moses Mosop KEN 17.07.85 3 Hengelo 26.05.2007

40 26:49.57 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Saint-Denis 24.08.2003

41 26:49.90 Assefa Mezgebu ETH 19.06.78 2 Bruxelles 30.08.2002

42 26:49.94 Joshua Cheptegei UGA 12.09.96 2 London 04.08.2017

43 26:50.12 Zersenay Tadese ERI 08.02.82 2 Berlin 17.08.2009

44 26:50.16 Rhonex Kipruto KEN 12.10.99 1 Stockholm 30.05.2019

45 26:50.20 Richard Limo KEN 18.11.80 3 Bruxelles 30.08.2002

46 26:50.53 Sileshi Sihine ETH 29.01.83 1 Hengelo 24.05.2008

47 26:50.60 Paul Tanui KEN 22.12.90 3 London 04.08.2017

48 26:50.63 Paul Tanui KEN 22.12.90 4 Eugene 03.06.2011

49 26:50.67 Albert Chepkurui KEN 29.07.81 4 Bruxelles 30.08.2002

50 26:50.77 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 2 Saint-Denis 24.08.2003

well i didnt counth but i dont see how your numbers you came up with are correct...like usual rek you make bold statements but NEVER provide proof of your stats.

sorry bro, looks like the 10k has fallen WAAAY off

sh*t i missed a few had to fix it, still 2011 was the last time someone ran into the top 20 fastest times. its 2019 snoop and no one is close to the top 20....thats called REGRESSION...hmmm two takes

1) EPO works and works good, but testing is really good now and now times are slower

2) coaching has gotten DUMBER and runners have become more afraid of running that hard

but according to our own GOD of coaching renato, number 2 cant be true, but he also claims 1 cant be true...so how the f*ck is this going on then??

1 2:01:39 Eliud Kipchoge KEN 05.11.84 1 Berlin 16.09.2018

2 2:02:37 Eliud Kipchoge KEN 05.11.84 1 London 28.04.2019

3 2:02:55 Mosinet Geremew ETH 12.02.92 2 London 28.04.2019

4 2:02:57 Dennis Kimetto KEN 22.04.84 1 Berlin 28.09.2014

5 2:03:02a Geoffrey Mutai KEN 07.10.81 1 Boston 18.04.2011

6 2:03:03 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Berlin 25.09.2016

7 2:03:05 Eliud Kipchoge KEN 05.11.84 1 London 24.04.2016

8 2:03:06a Moses Mosop KEN 17.07.85 2 Boston 18.04.2011

9 2:03:13 Emmanuel Mutai KEN 12.10.84 2 Berlin 28.09.2014

9 2:03:13 Wilson Kipsang Kiprotich KEN 15.03.82 2 Berlin 25.09.2016

11 2:03:16 Mule Wasihun ETH 20.10.93 3 London 28.04.2019

12 2:03:23 Wilson Kipsang Kiprotich KEN 15.03.82 1 Berlin 29.09.2013

13 2:03:32 Eliud Kipchoge KEN 05.11.84 1 Berlin 24.09.2017

14 2:03:34 Getaneh Molla ETH 10.01.94 1 Dubai 25.01.2019

15 2:03:38 Patrick Makau KEN 02.03.85 1 Berlin 25.09.2011

16 2:03:40 Herpasa Negasa ETH 11.09.93 2 Dubai 25.01.2019

17 2:03:42 Wilson Kipsang Kiprotich KEN 15.03.82 1 Frankfurt 30.10.2011

18 2:03:45 Dennis Kimetto KEN 22.04.84 1 Chicago 13.10.2013

19 2:03:46 Guye Adola ETH 20.10.90 2 Berlin 24.09.2017

20 2:03:51 Stanley Biwott KEN 21.04.86 2 London 24.04.2016

21 2:03:52 Emmanuel Mutai KEN 12.10.84 2 Chicago 13.10.2013

22 2:03:58 Wilson Kipsang Kiprotich KEN 15.03.82 1 Tokyo 26.02.2017

23 2:03:59 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Berlin 28.09.2008

24 2:04:00 Eliud Kipchoge KEN 05.11.84 1 Berlin 27.09.2015

24 2:04:00 Mosinet Geremew ETH 12.02.92 1 Dubai 26.01.2018

26 2:04:02 Leul Gebrselassie ETH 20.09.93 2 Dubai 26.01.2018

27 2:04:05 Eliud Kipchoge KEN 05.11.84 2 Berlin 29.09.2013

28 2:04:06 Tamirat Tola ETH 11.08.91 3 Dubai 26.01.2018

28 2:04:06 Asefa Mengistu ETH 18.01.85 4 Dubai 26.01.2018

28 2:04:06 Lawrence Cherono KEN 07.08.88 1 Amsterdam 21.10.2018

31 2:04:08 Sisay Lemma ETH 12.12.90 5 Dubai 26.01.2018

32 2:04:11 Eliud Kipchoge KEN 05.11.84 1 Chicago 12.10.2014

32 2:04:11 Tamirat Tola ETH 11.08.91 1 Dubai 20.01.2017

32 2:04:11 Marius Kipserem KEN 17.05.88 1 Rotterdam 07.04.2019

35 2:04:15 Geoffrey Mutai KEN 07.10.81 1 Berlin 30.09.2012

35 2:04:15 Birhanu Legesse ETH 09.11.94 6 Dubai 26.01.2018

37 2:04:16 Dennis Kimetto KEN 22.04.84 2 Berlin 30.09.2012

38 2:04:17 Eliud Kipchoge KEN 05.11.84 1 London 22.04.2018

39 2:04:23 Ayele Abshero ETH 28.12.90 1 Dubai 27.01.2012

40 2:04:24 Tesfaye Abera ETH 31.03.92 1 Dubai 22.01.2016

40 2:04:24 Asefa Mengistu ETH 18.01.85 3 Dubai 25.01.2019

42 2:04:26 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Berlin 30.09.2007

43 2:04:27 Duncan Kipkemboi Kibet KEN 25.04.78 1 Rotterdam 05.04.2009

43 2:04:27 James Kipsang Kwambai KEN 28.02.83 2 Rotterdam 05.04.2009

45 2:04:28 Sammy Kirop Kitwara KEN 26.11.86 2 Chicago 12.10.2014

46 2:04:29 Wilson Kipsang Kiprotich KEN 15.03.82 1 London 13.04.2014

47 2:04:32 Tsegaye Mekonnen ETH 15.06.95 1 Dubai 24.01.2014

47 2:04:32 Dickson Chumba KEN 27.10.86 3 Chicago 12.10.2014

49 2:04:33 Lemi Berhanu ETH 13.09.94 2 Dubai 22.01.2016

50 2:04:37 Mule Wasihun ETH 20.10.93 2 Amsterdam 21.10.2018

only takes a person with have a brain to look at this and say "daaaaamn" EPO is one hell of a drug

rekrunner wrote:

Africans aren't setting records like Geb and Komen in the 1990s and like El G and Bekele in the 2000s, but when you look a little deeper, say the number of top performances per decade, the are still a significant number of fast performances:

In the 1500m, 14 of the top 50 all time performances are from this decade (which is not yet finished).

In the 5000m, 13 of the top 50 are from this decade.

In the 10000m, 13 of the top 50 are from this decade.

In the marathon, 46 out of the top 50 are from this decade.

ukathleticscoach wrote:

Africans have slowed down on the track compared to 90's especially Kenyans. Ethiopia still has no virtually no testing out of competition.

Read the last line again.

As Kiprop admitted athletes in Kenya still get advance notice of testing and routinely pay fines to avoid being banned.

He was on the slide and didn't pay them enough.

zxcvczx wrote:

Lagat was the fastest Kenyan all-time at 1500m, 3:26.3, not Kiprop (3:26.69).

Correct thought he'd jumped ship to USA by then.

Good job Nike sorted his B test

How do think he ran 3:26 off 1:46 800m.

ukathleticscoach wrote:

zxcvczx wrote:

Lagat was the fastest Kenyan all-time at 1500m, 3:26.3, not Kiprop (3:26.69).

Correct thought he'd jumped ship to USA by then.

Good job Nike sorted his B test

How do think he ran 3:26 off 1:46 800m.

he did it with his big smile and going to church and not taking asprin, kenyans would never dope

a 1:46 equates to a 3:35-36, just about what he was running in college, centro rolled a 1:44 which is worth a 3:32, which is what centro runs as his non monaco PR

yeah yeah yeah "he did a 3:30 at monaco" yeah and that place is 2-3 seconds fast

i think you need a 1:41-42 to roll a 3:26......unlesss your on that hot sauce

Sorry Armstrong -- I didn't mean "you" specifically, but it was a royal "you". No need for a personal defense -- this time. I'm never too concerned about debating the "scale" of the problem -- I agree it is large enough to be concerning, and I agree the precise scale cannot be stated with certitude. When I say "you (all) don't know", it is things like -- did Joyce Chepkirui dope as long ago as 2010-2015? I believe we cannot know this from a bust in 2019, unless, as happens sometimes, eventually these earlier performances get annulled.

I don't know what point you wanted to make. In response to "Africans have slowed down on the track", I said "Africans aren't setting records like Geb and Komen in the 1990s and like El G and Bekele in the 2000s, but when you look a little deeper, say the number of top performances per decade, the are still a significant number of fast performances" and despite the volume of posts and data and extraneous comments, you seem to agree with me. I agree "its not that hard if you have all the info that is needed to make EDUCATED hypothesis". I wouldn't agree that EPO testing milestones is "all the info that is needed".

i got banned wrote:

well captian know it all, here is something to take a look at.

1500m, 14/50 in the last decade, my guess is most at monaco....and how many were done 2010-2012?

5000m, 13/50 in the last decade, again how many were done 2010-2012?

10000m, 13/50 in the last decade, again how many were done 2010-2012?

the one that should really blow open your mind but you insist to be naive and gullible...46/50...92%! and im sure 95% of those are from the last few years!

its not that hard if you have all the info that is needed to make EDUCATED hypothesis in this ordeal.

So are you arguing that Ethiopians are still fast, because of no OOC testing, after you said Africans are slowing down? You, and others, seem to place a great deal of faith on the lack of OOC testing -- this is essentially a concession that you don't have data or knowledge. Once again, in the 1990s, there was no EPO testing at all, and in the 2000s there was virtually no OOC (blood) testing anywhere, until the ABP after 2009. The EPO testing landscape was equal for everyone -- Kenyans, Ethiopians, Moroccans, Spanish, Europeans, Americans, alike -- for these two decades, and yet the East Africans were able to separate themselves from the rest of the world, a separation that has remained fairly constant for 25 years, despite all the improvements in EPO testing, and the uneven lack of OOC testing.

ukathleticscoach wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

Africans aren't setting records like Geb and Komen in the 1990s and like El G and Bekele in the 2000s, but when you look a little deeper, say the number of top performances per decade, the are still a significant number of fast performances:

In the 1500m, 14 of the top 50 all time performances are from this decade (which is not yet finished).

In the 5000m, 13 of the top 50 are from this decade.

In the 10000m, 13 of the top 50 are from this decade.

In the marathon, 46 out of the top 50 are from this decade.

Read the last line again.

As Kiprop admitted athletes in Kenya still get advance notice of testing and routinely pay fines to avoid being banned.

He was on the slide and didn't pay them enough.

really? ONLY the east africans? are you needing a lesson in GEOGRAPHY? is spain part of east africa? is morocco part of east africa?

pretty sure El G was dominating, cacho was fast and we are talking non monaco bullsh*t fake times.

its not hard to understand rek, the US and europe had a small population doing track and no incentive to work that hard, but struggling countries do, so thats where Jos and them italians went. man you are naive.

imagine if you will rek, i know it will be hard but come on just try....

american comes out of college has run 13:20 (1993), gets a nike deal and decides he sticks with his college coach. he trains by himself and his coach doesnt have all the time in the world for him like he needs. he decides to hop on this sauce that is super hot in europe. but he doesnt know how to use it...during the base phase? how many IU's, how many shots per week etc....but over in europe there are TEAMS and teams with doctors. Rosa IS a doctor...wonder what kind of doc he is...but we know he is a DOC, who happens to coach. now he has the knowledge on how to administer the correct dosage, when to inject, what to look out for, what helps with thick blood, etc...then later was pretty good and knowing when and how long the glow time was.

this lonely american doesnt have this, he has no support group, no team docs, no giant team of practice dummies, and his parents prob b*tching at him to grow up and get a JOB. pretty interesting the ONLY guys in the US that have competed are part of this CONCEPT. NOP has doc brown in tex, al sal is doing all the experiments on himself and his son, and boom galen, centro, mo...but yeah keep up the naive dialogue. when will you accept that EPO DOES WORK

rekrunner wrote:

Once again, in the 1990s, there was no EPO testing at all, and in the 2000s there was virtually no OOC (blood) testing anywhere, until the ABP after 2009.

The EPO testing landscape was equal for everyone -- Kenyans, Ethiopians, Moroccans, Spanish, Europeans, Americans, alike -- for these two decades, and yet the East Africans were able to separate themselves from the rest of the world, a separation that has remained fairly constant for 25 years,

Once again, your assumption is that everybody dopes equally given equal opportunity to do so, and that anybody who disagrees, is a racist (and you'll try to get them banned, as with me in the official moderation thread).

Having said that, and I've stated this before, you do have something of a valid point with regards to the 90s. If everybody dopes if they think they can get away with it, then you have to assume that ALL the Europeans, Americans, New Zealanders etc were doped to the gills with EPO in the 90's, and, beside from Spain really, the times don't indicate that at all.

Also, I pointed out yesterday that already only half way through the season (and not really that with the WC in October), EIGHT Brits have ran 1:45 and ten years ago, not one did the entire (2009) season. Five Americans have already ran under 1:45, and in the entire 2009 season only two did.

Similar at 1500m. Five Brits already gone under 3:36, whereas in 2009 only two did the entire season (and one was doorbell Mo).

On the other hand, despite booming population and economic growth, 800m and 1500m times for Kenyans are stagnating or declining year by year.

“Africans have slowed down on the track compared to 90's especially Kenyans. Ethiopia still has no virtually no testing out of competition.”

This is simply not true and there seems to be very selective reporting on this to support a preconceived narrative.

For example, in the media furore following Ayanas 46 second victory in the 10000m London WC, her management GSC supplied testing history to the assembled journalists which confirmed Ayana had been tested twice per month Out if competition for the preceding few years. - Of course there was no publication and oxygen supplied to this, as it completely derailed the “must be doped” narrative.

I had this confirmed to me directly by GSC.

I’m sure the top names are regularly tested, others maybe not so much.