What are the best ultras in the world? (Sponsored by HOKA ONE ONE)

I'm surprised people have not mentioned the zane grey 50.

Sorry Sage but the Lake Sonoma 50 is way more competitive than the TNF 50. Still mad the Zach Miller beat u?

How has no one mentioned the Worlds End 50 and 100K in Worlds End State Park PA? It fills it's slots in literally 2 minutes every year. Dave Walker the race director is top rate.

Btw sage your girlfriend is hot.

It's especially alarming to me when talking about the GOAT trail runners that we can't talk about

1. Dave Horton

2. Mike Morton

3. Courtney Campbell

4. Eric Clifton

5. DAVID FUCKKING GOGGINS

Whisper Contest!!!

Race Walker!!!

The GOAT argument is a little silly for ultras because the range is far broader than another of running sport. You can only have one marathon goat, one 5k or 10k goat, maybe a 100 meter goat, but ultras are any distance and surface.

Yiannas didn't run mountain ultras like Kilian so how could you ever say he is the goat? He wouldn't have stood a chance against Kilian at UTMB or Hardrock much like Kilian wouldn't stand a chance to beat him on the roads. Same goes for Ann Trason and Camille Herron. Ann's won Western States more times that I can't count and I am pretty sure still holds the course record at Leadville. Camille hasn't won either. And neither of them could touch Courtney Dewalter in the really long events.

Max King gets my vote for most versatile for now, and is still the 100k American record holder. I do think Walmsley will eclipse him as Jim has the speed of Max but more success at the longer distances.

Okay so here’s what the Brojo’s need to understand. In terms of numbers, Comrades is without a doubt the most competitive ultra in the world. And for the record, a fast marathon does translate really well to that. That being said, the races that the majority of the ultramarathon community get stoked about are on trails. Western States, UTMB, TNF 50 etc. These races aren’t as competitive for a few reasons, but the underlying reason in my opinion is that trail conditions dictate that fewer runners are allowed to run than in a road race. Thus, the top 100 ultra runners cannot all run western states, simply because the race only has 369 total spots, and many of those are lottery entrants. But, they are still super competitive and super exciting for us to follow. On the topic of who’s better, mountain running and road running are two different sports. Eliud Kipchoge MIGHT dominate Comarades, but Jim or Kilian would undoubtedly crush anybody from the road scene who tried to show up at Western States or UTMB respectively—and that includes 2:05 marathon guys. Running for 6 hours on roads and running for 6-24 hours on rocky trails are completely different.

Most prestigious: UTMB

Scenic: Tour de Gheants

Competitive: UTMB

Underated: Superior 100

Over-rated: Western States

Best Trail Race: Hyner Challenge (at least in the US)

Best MUT runner:

Male- Kilian

Female- Courtney D.

I think the best ultras is jim walmsley and killian jornet

- Western States, UTMB, Leadville. In that order. The “exclusivity” of Western States makes it very much the “Boston” of ultra running to me.

- Favorite might be Comrades (because of the competition and history). Bucket list would include that and Speedgoat

- GOAT is too subjective. Either Karl Meltzer (most wins in >100 mile distance) or Scott Jurek (consecutive wins, range over terrain, and multiple course records)

- Hardest record to me would be Leadville. Terrain is unforgiving.

AP5000 wrote:

Same goes for Ann Trason and Camille Herron. Ann's won Western States more times that I can't count and I am pretty sure still holds the course record at Leadville. Camille hasn't won either. And neither of them could touch Courtney Dewalter in the really long events.

You can't count until 14? That's sad.

Hoka is working hard on its PR right now! This thread and the 100k/50mile world record attempt!

Pretty cool stuff!

Sage, you gotta stop thinking that you can't do well at a net downhill trail race. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy for you.

Even in Trans America we had the odd specialist. Pat Farmer had finished a couple of Sydney-Melbournes but could climb much better than descend. He went for the 24-hour climbing record (since beaten). He even whipped Kouros & Kruglikov et al. on a stage of Trans Tasmania that started & finished on a climb.

So how should we even frame this debate? How can you compare running 50km on a track to 100 miles in the mountains?

50ks on track require less preparation and weather anticipation. 100 milers are more schematic, with crews, and gear, and navigation involved. More mental.

What are your personal favorite ultras?

50k sky races

We've got more at the link below but at the end of this we want to be able to try and answer some of the questions below:

*What are the most prestigious/most competitive ultramarathons in the world to win?

UTMB, Western States

*What is your favorite ultra?

Speedgoat for me. Hardrock for spectating

What is the most beautiful ultra?

Hardrock

Is there a bucket list of ultras that most amateurs should aspire to run?

Leadville 100 is doable for all

*Who is the GOAT of ultra running?

Matt Carpenter hands down.

*What are the hardest course/world records to break in ultra running?

Matt Carpenters pikes peak even though its a marathon.

Or his leadville record

More details on our exploration of the Ultra scene below:

This deep into the thread I don't think there is that much to add in terms of the best/most competitive ultras as well as the GOAT of ultrarunning, since it's all pretty much been mentioned at length. The one thing that I haven’t seen focused on too much are the records as well as where the MUT world is lacking in comparison to all other areas of the sport (track, road, distance, sprints etc.).

I’ve dabbled in the ultra scene for a few years now with some success (a national championship and a few podiums). I think about how it’s possible for an average runner at all other distances to be national or world class in the MUT side of our sport. I think the things listed below play main roles, with some obvious and some not.

1) Will to train/compete at these distances – This one is pretty self-explanatory. Essentially what it boils down to is the general population looks at the running community as crazy people running every day, paying to run marathons etc. People not in our sport rarely understand the sport. Most runners, especially elites acknowledge this and accept it. However, when I started doing ultras the shocking thing to me was that the majority of friends, family and fellow runners look at the ultra-runners that same way. Those who run college track/xc, elite post-collegiate marathoners and just avid runners all understand and relate to the motivations to run anything from the 60m hurdles to the marathon. However, there is a very small minority who understand the motivations of an ultra runner. I don’t very often hear a miler tell a marathoner ‘That’s crazy’ to the extent I hear veteran marathoners tell a 100k trail racer ‘you’re crazy!’. So, in summary, the initial population that is willing to venture past the marathon (regardless of surface) is extremely minimal.

2) Incentives - Like I said above, very few people including established runners at other distances have a passion for the longer races. Where there is some monetary incentive in more main stream running (marathon and down) there is even less in the ultra world. There are exceptions obviously like TNF, a few international races, and a few National Championship purses, but none which could support a full time running lifestyle. Even with the sponsor money id guess there are fewer than 10 athletes world wide that make 6 figures and probably a dozen or less US athletes that make over $40k.

3) Timeframe – I think this one is interesting. I’d say the typical progression for post-collegiate athletes is either never run again, become a hobby jogger, or try to run competitively for 3-5 years at half marathon and below then move up to the marathon in their late 20’s and then try to perfect the marathon until their mid-thirties, then retire or finally become an ultra runner. This really became apparent while pacing a friend at Western States and looking at the current leaderboard. Of the top 20 at half way, I’d estimate the average age was around 38, with I think only 1-2 under 30 years old. That’s a clear sign that ultras aren’t run by many people in their prime. I think Kara Goucher and Walmsley are two extremes at either end. Kara now 40 is getting into ultras and will probably be somewhat competitive but not breaking records for sure. Jim is the new breed of ultra runners which can bring the sport to the same competitive level of the traditional distances by committing much earlier on in life. There could be a dozen Walmsley’s right now if more 23 year old sub-14 guys had a passion for it. Guys in their 20’s are willing to take more risks and commit more of their time to training since they are fresh out of school, and again focus on the track and marathon for that next decade. The major disadvantages of those trying to be competitive starting in their mid 30’s (other than obvious physical ones) is life, kids, family, jobs get in the way so it’s hard to jump start an ultra career at that point. Fortunately, I do see in the past 5 years with Hoka and Nike creating hype around ultrarunning there seems to be more interest from the younger crowd than ever before.

4) Access to proper training ground – This is more related to the Mountain/Trail aspect of MUT running. Athletes trying to be competitive on the track or roads really don’t have many barriers in terms of location to train. Obviously, altitude training is tough to get unless you commit to moving to those places or have the luxury of having a part time job and can travel there for months at a time but even so altitude tents etc. can replicate this to an extent. In reality, every state and country can produce elite and world class track and road athletes. However if you want to be a world class Trail/Mountain runner its exponentially more difficult in certain areas/situations. One would be location in the US (east/west coast) as well as US vs Europe. I’ve lived in upstate NY for pretty much my whole life with 6 months of snow, no altitude and frankly probably one of the tougher places to train in the country…yet in NY and many states alike produce some of our countries best track/road athletes. If you want to compete at the national level for trail races you need thousands of feet of vert, rugged terrain and access to a substantial amount of trails. For most, especially those who aren’t full time runners are bound to locations for one reason or another (jobs/family) and to get to the proper training grounds becomes unrealistic. In that situation it becomes difficult to compete with those like Zach Miller who lives on Pikes Peak or the Cowboys who basically live and train in the Grand Canyon every day and especially Europeans like Kilian who train on Everest-like mountains constantly. For that guy who lives in Orlando Florida, or Chicago is going to be at an extreme disadvantage when it comes to perfecting their footing on the trails, or power hiking up 20% grades, or navigating very rocky sections of trail. So, for that very small subset of runners willing to venture into the ultra world, the competitive trail/mountain group becomes even smaller.

The other topic that sparks my interest are the current records in our sport. For most distances, the current records are probably upwards of 98% of the ultimate capabilities of a person. The marathon may see a sub 2 in the next 10 years, or possibly a sub 3:40 mile…bet we’re approaching the limit in my opinion in most events. However, we are still far away from the same quality records in ultra running. I’d say current state, many of the ultra records are where the marathon was in the 1930-40’s. Current AR records include the 50k – 2:43, 50 Mile – 4:51, 100k – 6:27 , 100 Mile - 11:40. Current WR are 50k – 2:43, 50 Mile – 4:50, 100k – 6:09 , 100 Mile - 11:28. In my opinion I think these WRs could be 50k – 2:31, 50 Mile – 4:30, 100k – 5:50 , 100 Mile - 10:30 (granted if we could get a Kipchoge equivalent to run ultras). The ultra world seems to take more pride in making the toughest courses possible and course records. There are a countless number of crazy vert races, and extremely tough terrain courses throughout the world (especially Europe). So, if you want to be involved in the MUT community you essentially have to be comfortable with the fact that both long distance and vert are very much married in this sport. There are almost no courses that are set up to be fast record-breaking venues. In the US there is the Caumsett 50k, Mad City 50/100k and Chicago Lakefront 50 mile that are even somewhat fast courses. Even those are tough to break a record because you will most certainly be all alone from the gun and in the case of the 50mile/100k you may be an hour ahead of second place. The Desert Solstice track race is the only consistently run race where I know the primary purpose is to chase fast times…typically where the longer 100 mile/24hr records are broken. Expanding that to the world, really Lake Saroma is the only one that comes to mind to break a world record for the 100k and I know of zero fast 50k, 50 mile or 100k courses that could be compared to a London or Berlin marathon type opportunity. It seems the only way to break a record nowadays is to set up a special time trial or possibly at a World Championship (but even in that case the championships are typically held in terrible venues with 20 loops of 5k or something, with brick roads and 85 degrees). Now as I’m writing this ironically Hoka has announced its 50 mile/100k WR attempts this wknd to promote their new shoe (which I am suspecting the timing of this thread may not be a coincidence in, as it's sponsored by Hoka). So, I think the MUT world needs to set up more time trial events, or some people need to step up as race directors and create fast competitive events around the world.

This is funny.

Kouros had a 2:24 Marathon PB I believe. If I am not mistaken he ran Comrades at least once when it was not permitted because of Apartheid. I think he got in trouble for that. He had 6:43:34 over 100k.

Don Richie was great when the computer was not really was invented yet. He ran 6:010:20 over 100k in 1978!

craulli88 wrote:

1) Will to train/compete at these distances –

3) Timeframe –

4) Access to proper training ground – ...

The other topic that sparks my interest are the current records in our sport.

addressing some of your points.

1. We are in a trailrunning boom right now and the numbers are increasing quickly. As more people start going MUT racing, it will become more well known and less "crazy". All it takes to run your first 50k is seeing your friend do one and feeling like you want to try it out.

3. As MUT grows I think more post-collegiates will skip the marathon/road scene and migrate to the trails. If media like Letsrun continue to cover the sport (as they have for what, several days now?), then more younger runners will hear about these races and want to pursue that path instead of the classic one of doing track and then roads.

4. don't forget that Zach Miller first turned heads at JFK50 while working on a cruise ship doing all his running on stairs and a treadmill. Camille Herron lives in Oklahoma in the flatlands. Thousands of trailrunners don't have good access to mountains, but for the most part, running is running and you can get fit enough on flatland (with some ingenuity) to run decently in the hills. maybe you won't win UTMB, but that's not an issue for most people.

I really enjoyed watching UTMB live. There was live video of the two leaders going down this narrow trail with a sheer drop-off to the right. I haven't been able to find the video since, but it was amazing.

I think UTMB is the best. I've followed Western States and it just seems not as fun. I prefer to watch cold races. Boston 2018 was a better race to watch than London 2018 for example.

This is no place for logical, well-written posts. How dare you!

It should be obvious by now that the UTMB is the most prestigious and competitive ultramarathons in the world. Deep field every year without fail, set with Mont Blanc as the backdrop and the number of supporters, volunteers and crews that keeps on pushing runners over the course.

GOAT would be non other that Kilian. The cliche answer, but well deserved. He may not win all races but who else would wait for his competitors so that he can finish together in a race?

https://www.denverpost.com/2016/07/16/kilian-jornet-jason-schlarb-hardrock-100/

Both marathons and ultramarathons may share the distance and the focus on speed, but beyond that its two different sports altogether I would say.