World Champion Emma Coburn Expresses Doubt that Beatrice Chepkoech's World Record in Steeple is Clean

VIPAM wrote:

Once a week. Now shes Emma "I'm Liar" Coburn. It just isnt feasible to test any one person more than 20 times a year AT MAX!

So Emma saying her and Courtney get tested close to 50-52 times is a flat out LIE!

You can look up how often an athlete is tested on USADA's website. This doesn't account for tests not initiated by USADA.

Emma Coburn 2017: 5

Emma Coburn 2018: 3

Courtney Frerichs 2017: 5

Courtney Frerichs 2018: 4

Galen Rupp 2017:17

Galen Rupp 2018: 10

Evan Jager 2017: 13

Evan Jager 2018: 7

Maybe throw in 20-30 in-competition tests at the higher end? I don't know, 50+ seems like a lot.

kind of strange wrote:

VIPAM wrote:

Once a week. Now shes Emma "I'm Liar" Coburn. It just isnt feasible to test any one person more than 20 times a year AT MAX!

So Emma saying her and Courtney get tested close to 50-52 times is a flat out LIE!

You can look up how often an athlete is tested on USADA's website. This doesn't account for tests not initiated by USADA.

Emma Coburn 2017: 5

Emma Coburn 2018: 3

Courtney Frerichs 2017: 5

Courtney Frerichs 2018: 4

Galen Rupp 2017:17

Galen Rupp 2018: 10

Evan Jager 2017: 13

Evan Jager 2018: 7

Maybe throw in 20-30 in-competition tests at the higher end? I don't know, 50+ seems like a lot.

Interesting...Tied with Gatlin and Ajee for the most in 2018 for T&F...just saying

gasa wrote:

Last I checked, Emma Coburn is not even the American Record holder. Not even the best in her own country.

Get a reality check, Emma. When a talent that comes along like Molly Huddle or Shannon Rowbury turns to the Steeple, we'll see 8:50 from Americans.

Simpson use to do the steeplechase has more talent than either of those and didn't come close

troll under a bridge wrote:

The major difference between Emma Coburn and Beatrice Chepkoech is that Chepkoech is a fast flat 3000 runner and Emma Coburn is not.

Look, Chepkoech is the fastest flat runner to ever take a serious go at the women's steeplechase and work on improving her hurdling form. She could legit qualify for major champs in a flat race for Kenya. The rest of the African women steeplechasers could not qualify in the flat races so they gave it a go at the steeplechase.

Sus progression.

Mid 20's average runner from nowhere suddenly running faster over 3000m SC than she could for 2000m s/c

Once a week!!! wrote:

Once a week!!!, is this correct?

Not likely, but very likely more often than Beatrice.

That means, she has to at least mostly stay within the ABP thresholds with her blood transfusions and respect the EPO glowing times and only micro-dose testo etc.

That neither means she is clean nor that there is an even level playing field.

PrZ wrote:

Semenyagoat wrote:

I have doubt coburn is clean the usa have a history of doping and letting the few that get positives of the hook. Kissing, bad meat and so on. Very suspicious.

Oh yeah? How many US distance runners have failed drug tests in the last 10 years (not talking about sprinters or jumpers)? And how many Kenyan distance runners have failed drug tests in the last 10 years?

Why would you restrict this to long distance runners and the last 10 years? Semenyagoat did not...

Wiki lists as athlete doping cases (i.e. under the jurisdiction of IAAF and the respective NADOs) according to my cursory counting:

RUS 107

USA 95

Kenya 26

Canada 19

UK 16

Germany 11 (18 total with East + West G.)

East Germany 5 (only 1 with a positive test!)

Ethiopia 4

West Germany 2

(This is admittedly a weird list. E.g., Lewis is on there, but Wilson is not.)

kind of strange wrote:

VIPAM wrote:

Once a week. Now shes Emma "I'm Liar" Coburn. It just isnt feasible to test any one person more than 20 times a year AT MAX!

So Emma saying her and Courtney get tested close to 50-52 times is a flat out LIE!

You can look up how often an athlete is tested on USADA's website. This doesn't account for tests not initiated by USADA.

Emma Coburn 2017: 5

Emma Coburn 2018: 3

Courtney Frerichs 2017: 5

Courtney Frerichs 2018: 4

Galen Rupp 2017:17

Galen Rupp 2018: 10

Evan Jager 2017: 13

Evan Jager 2018: 7

Maybe throw in 20-30 in-competition tests at the higher end? I don't know, 50+ seems like a lot.

What may have slipped here accidentally by Coburn, if she is doping she would be tested weekly by her own people.

rojo wrote:

.... after the WR I called up John Kellogg (who didn't watch the race or no about the WR) and ....

wtfunny wrote:

"no about"???

Rojo, sometimes I think you're just messing with people here.

Sad to say, I think you're giving him too much credit.

rojo wrote:

George213 wrote:

Hate to say this, but I have to agree with you on this.

By Coburn's logic, Houlihan who suddenly came along and broke the 5K AR with ease and dropped a 3:57 1500m with a 57 last lap should have raised some eyebrows.

Good post. Houlihan has improved a ton. She went from 15:00 to 14:34 this year. From 4:03 to 3:57.

I'd bet my life she's clean. I imagine Coburn thinks she's clean as well.

Wow, I'm going to bookmark this page.

casual obsever wrote:

Once a week!!! wrote:

Once a week!!!, is this correct?

Not likely,

So she's lost even more credibility and sympathy unless she can prove that she and Courtney have been "drug tested on average once a week" (as per her tweet) which adds up to 52 a year and doesn't really help her attempts to implicate Chepkoech. Perhaps she means average for the last two weeks.

Are women's barrier lower relative to their height?

You'd think facts like this would be well-known to the cognoscenti.

The obstacles for the men are 914 millimetres (36.0 in) high, and for the women 762 millimetres (30.0 in). The water jump consists of a barrier followed by a pit of water with a landing area 3.66 metres (12.0 ft) wide × 0.70 metres (2.3 ft). It then slopes upward from 700 millimetres (28 in) deep to level with the surface of the track.

Shouldn't the women's water jump be proportionally smaller?

Jubal Early wrote:

mmb wrote:

Coburn picked the weakest event in track in which to specialize, .... Just wait until someone with real talent tackles the steeplechase.

OK, this whole thread is TL,DR but I have to reply to this. Yes, women's steeple is new and young, and quite likely the record should be 8:45 eventually, but if the steeple were that easy then you'd have a lot of guys (and gals) who were close to but not quite world-class jumping in. However ... I recall a quote from Shumacher I think who said the vast vast majority of elite runners could not compete well in the steeple because, to paraphrase, they're NAFs, and it takes a level of coordination similar to a basketball fast-break layup to be able to run the steeple.

That's the whole point, it's not that easy. You've got have somebody who can run fast over 3k and hurdle, Chepkoech can do both, and there will be others.

Just like Coburn I wouldn't have a clue if she's doping or not, but I do know she can run fast over 3k and hurdle.

wejo wrote:

But drug testing is considered to be better in the US and there haven't been a lot of doping positive and most of the people visiting this site are American so more people are going to believe so.

There's multiple things here: drug USAGE, drug TESTING, and drug ANTI-TESTING (beating them). The total matrix is definitely different in Kenya versus USA.

There's also huge financial incentives from vested interests to cover-up (with dodgy meat excuses) USA positives. Channeling Lance , "testing positive" just means you passed the intelligence test (and never had a vengeful tester frame you).

With 4 of the top 15 all-time women's results in that race, maybe conditions were conducive?

kind of strange wrote:

VIPAM wrote:

Once a week. Now shes Emma "I'm Liar" Coburn. It just isnt feasible to test any one person more than 20 times a year AT MAX!

So Emma saying her and Courtney get tested close to 50-52 times is a flat out LIE!

You can look up how often an athlete is tested on USADA's website. This doesn't account for tests not initiated by USADA.

Emma Coburn 2017: 5

Emma Coburn 2018: 3

Courtney Frerichs 2017: 5

Courtney Frerichs 2018: 4

Maybe throw in 20-30 in-competition tests at the higher end? I don't know, 50+ seems like a lot.

So the "once a week" is "bullshits" as Renato would say.

I know courtney gets drug tested on average once a week. Just like me.

Cynical me wants to say: Being tested internally, to make sure that you are not glowing for real testers, shouldn't count.

Very unlikely she actually has 52 tests a year, or even 12 (one per month) for that matter. You can check USADA/USATF/IAAF numbers, then add-in in-event tests (which BC must take too), and it's still not that high.

kind of strange wrote:

You can look up how often an athlete is tested on USADA's website. This doesn't account for tests not initiated by USADA.

Emma Coburn 2017: 5

Emma Coburn 2018: 3

Courtney Frerichs 2017: 5

Courtney Frerichs 2018: 4

In other words, you've proved that USADA tests female USA steeplechasers maybe 4 times a year, which admittedly is more than the 0 times a year they (USADA) usually test Kenyans of the same.

casual obsever wrote:

Wiki lists as athlete doping cases (i.e. under the jurisdiction of IAAF and the respective NADOs) according to my cursory counting:

RUS 107

USA 95

Kenya 26

Canada 19

UK 16

Germany 11 (18 total with East + West G.)

East Germany 5 (only 1 with a positive test!)

Ethiopia 4

West Germany 2

(This is admittedly a weird list. E.g., Lewis is on there, but Wilson is not.)

The Wikipedia list is rather arbitrary. You can already see the anti-RUS bias, and over-emphasis on USA.