Is Shelby Houlihan dirty?

Shelby’s family and friends wrote:

People who know her will tell you that she is absolutely clean. She is very nice and humble. She is the type of person that we should all be proud of as Americans. Let’s root for her instead of trying to discredit her. I was so excited that she won the 1500 over world class competition but then I came to this site to continue reading about running and was disappointed to see this type of unwarranted accusations. Do you know any 25 year old women? Think about how they would feel if everyone made up rumors about them. Once they start, people hear them and don’t know that they are false. What would the creators of this site do if it were their daughters who were being gossiped about here?

Stick around and read what the owners say about Caster Semenya and at least two others they refer to as 'widely believed to be' something or other.

What goes around comes around.

If she wasn't American, everyone would be going crazy about how dirty she is. The suspicion is more than fair. I mean... Rowbury with Salazar was only running 3:59's...

There are plenty of otherwise high character people who have rationalized doping as just leveling the playing field because they feel every other top competitor is doing it. How many of us have been shocked to find out someone close who we thought was totally upstanding is having an affair, or has a drinking or drug problem? So no, I don’t subscribe that friends and family offer infallible insight on whether someone is doping or not.

Getting high wrote:

I mean... Rowbury with Salazar was only running 3:59's...

3:56.29. Did you forget that she owns the AR?

Jeff Wigand wrote:

Getting high wrote:

I mean... Rowbury with Salazar was only running 3:59's...

3:56.29. Did you forget that she owns the AR?

Yes... yes I did... that kind of helps my argument... this stinks...

All this uproar about spurious miracle drugs, that have not been shown to provide ANY advantage, is misplaced.

Meanwhile all the supposition, wild accusations, and slandering of women's characters totally overshadows the real issue.

Which is XY men, also having high natural levels of testosterone, competing with XX women!!!!

XY men, with their much higher natural levels of testosterone, have at least a 10 to 15 percent advantage, and should NEVER be allowed to compete in women's events.

Let's put a stop to this travesty NOW!!!

Head in sand disease wrote:

There are plenty of otherwise high character people who have rationalized doping as just leveling the playing field because they feel every other top competitor is doing it.

Please list high character persons who have engaged in fraud and deception.

Head in sand disease wrote:

How many of us have been shocked to find out someone close who we thought was totally upstanding is having an affair

How well did you know them? How much time did you spend with them? There are usually common signs of infidelity.

Head in sand disease wrote:

or has a drinking or drug problem?

Addiciton is a disease.

Head in sand disease wrote:

So no, I don’t subscribe that friends and family offer infallible insight on whether someone is doping or not.

Who said anything about infallible?

Who would you say would be a good judge of Houlihan’s character?

I have a feeling most of the people saying she is suspicious never really pushed/stayed healthy into there own ceiling/ breakthrough. Shelby has been on the cusp of 4 minutes for years, 4:03 was not any sort of breakthrough for her. It takes years and huge mental changes to reach your potential (hence the sadness of seeing German and wheating be injured post 3:30-34 PRs). If youre citing her times you're making this all to simple, and youre uninformed on the slow process of becoming your best. She has a set of skills much greater than rowberry did. It didn't make sense for rowberry, who can't turn over well and had very little physical strength, to get to 3:56. Her 3:56 does support the years and years it takes to get good at running, but it appeared way beyond her ceiling imho.

I think the time jump and how she looks (fit, beautiful) are ridiculous arguments. The most valid argument is that doping is rampant at the top and she has looks better than probable dopers. I really hope we're just now seeing her express her fitness.

fdasfdasf wrote:

If she looks "masculine", then I must have gay tendencies because I would bang hard.

Welcome to LR, ARod.

Shelby’s family and friends wrote:

People who know her will tell you that she is absolutely clean. She is very nice and humble. She is the type of person that we should all be proud of as Americans. Let’s root for her instead of trying to discredit her. I was so excited that she won the 1500 over world class competition but then I came to this site to continue reading about running and was disappointed to see this type of unwarranted accusations. Do you know any 25 year old women? Think about how they would feel if everyone made up rumors about them. Once they start, people hear them and don’t know that they are false. What would the creators of this site do if it were their daughters who were being gossiped about here?

Monetize it with more ads.

canadian wrote:

It wasn't "discussing" drugs, it was labeling someone as a cheat? If Shelby was a sibling of yours, would you be happy with a statement like that hidden in the framing of a question?

I honestly wouldn't care. People can, and will, talk about whatever they want to talk about, that's just how it is so toughen up and get used to it.

people moving away from what looked like the most obvious sign to me

she won that race against top class 1500m runners and looked like she just joined in in the last 100m

absolutely powered clear, and then afterwards barely puffed her cheeks.

throw in the vast improvement and you have a very suspicious athlete

Shelby’s career has been very patient. She talked about it in an interview. Basically the past 8 years have been building up to this prime time of her career. Hopefully she can remain dominant until the olympics.

https://youtu.be/AgnJzRQJFRk

adman wrote:

Shelby’s family and friends wrote:

People who know her will tell you that she is absolutely clean. She is very nice and humble. She is the type of person that we should all be proud of as Americans. Let’s root for her instead of trying to discredit her. I was so excited that she won the 1500 over world class competition but then I came to this site to continue reading about running and was disappointed to see this type of unwarranted accusations. Do you know any 25 year old women? Think about how they would feel if everyone made up rumors about them. Once they start, people hear them and don’t know that they are false. What would the creators of this site do if it were their daughters who were being gossiped about here?

Monetize it with more ads.

I think they would need to get laid first though. So they don't have to worry about daughters being slandered

Looking to simply wrote:

I think the time jump and how she looks (fit, beautiful) are ridiculous arguments. The most valid argument is that doping is rampant at the top and she has looks better than probable dopers. I really hope we're just now seeing her express her fitness.

Well put. The "looks" arguments are silly. I think it's too early to dismiss the "time jump" arguments, depending on how low she goes this year.

Here's an nice article telling how it all came together for her this year. Interestingly, she makes a big deal out of improvements to the mental side of her racing. I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this, since she's been consistently talking about it for a while:

Houlifans who think it's mean or cynical to be suspicious of her recent breakthrough might want to bone up on the history of doping in track and field. Athletes themselves say it's became widespread in the 1960s. Since, there have been many examples unusual performances by explained as caused by unique talent or work-ethic or training methods. The most obvious example is Lance Armstrong, who managed to fool lots of people:

https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/14/science/how-lance-armstrong-gets-his-unusual-energy.html

To me that argument makes the most sense. To people that say they know her or they know she is a hard worker and wouldn’t do that, they don’t realize friends of Armstrong thought it was just hard work. I think that kick at the end is a little suspicious to me. Some of the best in the world raced with her and prepared for it much longer where she had just ran USATF’s and still kicked ahead of them with ease. She didn’t even look tired at all which seems bizarre.

I personally never take any drugs, and never go to doctors for anything.

Why? Because they don't help anyone, and certainly not runners to run any faster.

With this being said, I don't care if anyone else does or does not take any drugs.

Personally I'd prefer that no one did, but that is a personal choice, not for anyone else to make.

Think about it though.

The only advantage that matters in modern athletics other than talent, ability and hard work is the gender of the person, where a man with one or more Y chromosomes can have at least a 10 to 15 percent advantage over XX women, due to the much higher natural levels of testosterone and other uniquely male characteristics.

This is what we should be focusing the greatest amount of time to resolve, not any issues with drugs.

The obvious suspects who shouldn't be competing in the women's 800 is a good place to start.

I’m sorry, but do you actually think EPO and steroids do nothing to your performance?!?!