• Longdistancerunning
      registered
      • Is Shelby Houlihan dirty? 7/5/2018 3:08PM
      • Longdistancerunning
        registered
      • No one likes to point fingers at Americans for doping and I love Shelby but to me it seems weird that she has dropped 7 seconds in the 1500m in the past couple months with her PR today of 3:57 and doesn’t even look that tired at the end with a lot of room to kick. I don’t want to be rude I just want it to be up for discussion .
    • Longdistancerunning
      registered
      • RE: Is Shelby Houlihan dirty? 7/5/2018 3:10PM - in reply to Longdistancerunning
      • Longdistancerunning
        registered
      • Also she had just ran the double at USATF and has been running a decent amount a races recently so her time seems kind of crazy.
    • MeHereYouWhere?!
      registered
      • RE: Is Shelby Houlihan dirty? 7/5/2018 3:16PM - in reply to sanchobaile
      • MeHereYouWhere?!
        registered
      • At this very moment? Hard to tell...Has she done all the requisite post-race interviews and drug tests and taken a shower?
    • Prob Gray Zone
      • RE: Is Shelby Houlihan dirty? 7/5/2018 3:25PM - in reply to MeHereYouWhere?!
      • Prob Gray Zone
      • Doubtful but most likely taking advantage of all the best/innovative methods to currently legally raise blood levels and the muscular skeletal system
    • a a a a a
      • RE: Is Shelby Houlihan dirty? 7/5/2018 3:34PM - in reply to Prob Gray Zone
      • a a a a a
      • Prob Gray Zone wrote:

        Doubtful but most likely taking advantage of all the best/innovative methods to currently legally raise blood levels and the muscular skeletal system

        And what are those, exactly?
    • Prob Gray Zone
      • RE: Is Shelby Houlihan dirty? 7/5/2018 3:42PM - in reply to a a a a a
      • Prob Gray Zone
      • Designer supplements to make sure all levels are good and high...especially while at altitude. Believe me Jerry’s group isn’t cheating but they aren’t sitting around letting other groups take advantage of them.
    • julsome
      • RE: Is Shelby Houlihan dirty? 7/5/2018 4:17PM - in reply to Longdistancerunning
      • julsome
      • I think it's definitely feasible that she's not doping. She did a podcast w/ Carrie Tollefson recently where she talks about her history and build up with the sport. Worth a listen if you're wondering- training bit goes from about 4 to 10 min below.

        https://player.fm/series/c-tolle-run/ep-72-shelby-houlihan-believe-you-canhttps://player.fm/series/c-tolle-run/ep-72-shelby-houlihan-believe-you-can

        She talks about how by senior year of high school she was training as a sprinter and only running 20 mpw. In college she built up 10 mpw / year- 30, 40, 50 and then 60 mpw. When she transitioned to being pro- she kept her mileage steady due to the increase in intensity of training w/ Jerry's group. She's now up to 80 mpw. Scary to think she could add even a bit more in mileage and/or reap the benefits of consistent training at 80 and what that could allow her to do in the 5k. Her coming onto the scene really started in 2016 in the 5k. She was probably ready to run faster the past two years in the 15 but Jerry thought she'd have a better chance in the 5k due to how stacked the 15 was at the time - Jenny, Shannon, Kate, Brenda, etc.

        So no, I don't think it's an immediate conculsion that she's doping. It's possible, but I'd like to believe she isnt.
    • reed
      registered
      • RE: Is Shelby Houlihan dirty? 7/5/2018 4:25PM - in reply to julsome
      • reed
        registered
      • she had seemed to be in 4:00ish shape last year but you don't get that many opportunities to get into a sub-4 race as a woman. you can't just get fit and then enter your local junior college's open meet where ten dudes will all go run 3:50s...there are like two chances per year for women unless you're willing to fly out to every international 1500 that has sub-4 potential, or if you set up your own time trial like Dibaba
    • Scorpion_runner
      registered
      • RE: Is Shelby Houlihan dirty? 7/5/2018 4:42PM - in reply to Longdistancerunning
      • Scorpion_runner
        registered
      • Longdistancerunning wrote:

        No one likes to point fingers at Americans for doping and I love Shelby but to me it seems weird that she has dropped 7 seconds in the 1500m in the past couple months with her PR today of 3:57 and doesn’t even look that tired at the end with a lot of room to kick. I don’t want to be rude I just want it to be up for discussion .

        I focking hate you guys!....

        Now, Im really not all that impressed with what Shelby is doing ( im spoiled by Dibaba and as jenny). However, she has improved, and she has always been a kicker. She has simply perfected her tactic.

        She is not doping.
    • I really don’t care, do U?
      • RE: Is Shelby Houlihan dirty? 7/5/2018 5:01PM - in reply to Scorpion_runner
      • I really don’t care, do U?
      • Obviously the thought crossed my mind as well, but I'll say if she is, everyone should be, seems to be working for her
    • stemandrimpy
      • RE: Is Shelby Houlihan dirty? 7/5/2018 5:38PM - in reply to Longdistancerunning
      • stemandrimpy
      • Her range has been incredible since high school (400/800/1500 state champ) and ran an open 55.xx 400. How many pro 1500m runners could run 55 in high school? I don't know her injury history, but if she hasn't had to miss huge training blocks, then it makes sense that she is now rounding into form as a force in both the 1500/5000. She has all the tools -- naturally -- to excel at both. Her sprint form is near-perfect. Too bad this isn't a championship year. Hope she can stay healthy for the next two years. In the meantime, she gains valuable European experience under relatively low pressure.

        Make me wonder if Laura Roesler shouldn't follow the same template. She had similar raw speed and distance range in HS.
    • coacheslisten
      • RE: Is Shelby Houlihan dirty? 7/5/2018 5:52PM - in reply to stemandrimpy
      • coacheslisten
      • This just goes to show you, we are putting the wrong athletes in the 800/1500 in our training programs with targets for global medals. Shelby was a 400 runner in HS who learned how to sprint properly and has great mechanics. These are the types we need to be looking for and steering them towards the middle distances. No offense, but other than Simpson and Rowbury, the rest of the 1500 women in the US just don't have the basic speed and mechanics to be WORLD CLASS. Running 4:02 to 4:05 is great, but that isn't world class and you aren't sniffing medals. Finally, we have Simpson and Shelby who are strong and can close a race with the best in the world. Let's look for more high school 400 runners running 54 and finishing 5-6th and train them for the 1500!
    • PORTLAND
      • RE: Is Shelby Houlihan dirty? 7/5/2018 5:57PM - in reply to Longdistancerunning
      • PORTLAND
      • Longdistancerunning wrote:

        No one likes to point fingers at Americans for doping and I love Shelby but to me it seems weird that she has dropped 7 seconds in the 1500m in the past couple months with her PR today of 3:57 and doesn’t even look that tired at the end with a lot of room to kick. I don’t want to be rude I just want it to be up for discussion .

        And this is why we can't have nice things. Complain that Americans aren't competitive and then when an American is competitive and actually wins, let's accuse her of doping. Awesome. You people suck.
    • read my mind
      • RE: Is Shelby Houlihan dirty? 7/5/2018 6:14PM - in reply to Longdistancerunning
      • read my mind
      • I was thinking about making this thread earlier. Not only is she more fit, but she's more muscular (less doughey) and her face looks more cave man-ish (sunken in). Either her recent training has had drastic effects on her body or something else is going on.
    • JohnNgugi
      registered
      • RE: Is Shelby Houlihan dirty? 7/5/2018 6:19PM - in reply to PORTLAND
      • JohnNgugi
        registered
      • PORTLAND wrote:

        Longdistancerunning wrote:

        No one likes to point fingers at Americans for doping and I love Shelby but to me it seems weird that she has dropped 7 seconds in the 1500m in the past couple months with her PR today of 3:57 and doesn’t even look that tired at the end with a lot of room to kick. I don’t want to be rude I just want it to be up for discussion .

        And this is why we can't have nice things. Complain that Americans aren't competitive and then when an American is competitive and actually wins, let's accuse her of doping. Awesome. You people suck.

        Amen.
    • Hypocrites everywhere
      • RE: Is Shelby Houlihan dirty? 7/5/2018 6:22PM - in reply to JohnNgugi
      • Hypocrites everywhere
      • JohnNgugi wrote:

        PORTLAND wrote:

        Longdistancerunning wrote:

        No one likes to point fingers at Americans for doping and I love Shelby but to me it seems weird that she has dropped 7 seconds in the 1500m in the past couple months with her PR today of 3:57 and doesn’t even look that tired at the end with a lot of room to kick. I don’t want to be rude I just want it to be up for discussion .

        And this is why we can't have nice things. Complain that Americans aren't competitive and then when an American is competitive and actually wins, let's accuse her of doping. Awesome. You people suck.

        Amen.

        Oh please, you accuse the Africans of doping and age cheating every change you get. You can't have it both ways (unless you actually have proof).