Craig Virgin and Fam have interesting comments on Rupp and NOPe

No dog in this race either. I hope he's clean, and for that matter that they're all (NOP) clean.

I just think if they were dirty, at least one of them would have been caught by now.

Or someone like Dorian Ulrey, who just left the NOP, would know WAAAAYYYY too much. Too many cooks in the kitchen with these training groups...

Just to add to your remarks, last year, to the best of my memory, Rupp won two races outdoors--the 3000 Oregon Twilight, beating Ritz, and the Nationals 10000, beating Ritz. He lost every other race, often to many guys. So, how could a guy who in 2011 ran 26:48 and 12:58 in 2012, and who has run 3:50 indoors, keep getting beat, if he's doping and they're not? In fact, has Rupp ever won a race outside of US soil? If he has, he hasn't won many.

really1111 wrote:

Lance was claiming to be clean in the dirtiest sport in the world and all the time beating everyone who got caught. Lance was good, but you don't beat the cheaters everytime.

As far as Rupp is concerned yes, he won a silver in the olympics, but if everything was like people claim where was his wc medal?

Occidental AD wrote:

Just to add to your remarks, last year, to the best of my memory, Rupp won two races outdoors--the 3000 Oregon Twilight, beating Ritz, and the Nationals 10000, beating Ritz. He lost every other race, often to many guys. So, how could a guy who in 2011 ran 26:48 and 12:58 in 2012, and who has run 3:50 indoors, keep getting beat, if he's doping and they're not? In fact, has Rupp ever won a race outside of US soil? If he has, he hasn't won many.

really1111 wrote:

Lance was claiming to be clean in the dirtiest sport in the world and all the time beating everyone who got caught. Lance was good, but you don't beat the cheaters everytime.

As far as Rupp is concerned yes, he won a silver in the olympics, but if everything was like people claim where was his wc medal?

Can you folks possibly be serious? Do you have even a single logic circuit in your brains?

Rupp has been beaten many times, in fact virtually every time in top international competition. Therefore it must be true that he does not dope.

Are you F'ing kidding me? This is what passes for logic in your world?

Holy shit!

The problem with that would be HPAA. Which would be a huge problem.

Im actually more upset at people like Fam or Virgin or Magness who keep throwing around subtle remarks about doping without ever actually accusing anyone. They are also to blame for allowing this to happen. If Kara Goucher or Teg Or Solinksy know anything, why not man up and straight up talk about it?

The question I would like to see Alberto answer is does he make his former athletes and coaches sign a non-disclosure agreement when they leave OP and why? Clearly the answer is yes. That's why people who know whats going on aren't free to talk.

they are all presently under contract with nike?

Exactly. If they know something, let's hear it. Subtle cheap shots about drug use should be beneath someone like Craig Virgin (who was obviously a world class runner). Even if someone like Malmo (who was far from world-class) knows something, he should speak up. It's cowardly to suggest that you have some big information about drug use by athletes, and then go into radio-silence mode.

What Virgin said is no cheap shot. Read Albergotti and O'Connell's book Wheelmen. This is a tactic and strategy. Bully people who know the truth into silence. Misdirect those who don't know into believing in exceptional talent or innovative coaching. Its been done before.

"This is the Golden Age of fraud, an era of general willingness to ignore and justify the wrongdoings of the rich and powerful , which makes every lie bigger and widens its destructive path."

Albergotti, Reed; O'Connell, Vanessa (2013-10-15). Wheelmen: Lance Armstrong, the Tour de France, and the Greatest Sports Conspiracy Ever (Kindle Locations 5238-5239). Penguin Group US. Kindle Edition.

Omar Little wrote:

The question I would like to see Alberto answer is does he make his former athletes and coaches sign a non-disclosure agreement when they leave OP and why? Clearly the answer is yes. That's why people who know whats going on aren't free to talk.

A non-disclosure agreement wouldn't be binding on something illegal. I don't think you can make someone agree to not disclose blatant cheating or illegal activity.

There is illegal and there is unethical. Is getting a hypothyroid prescription or an asthma prescription or a viagra prescription for a person who is an elite athlete and otherwise healthy illegal or unethical. Remember the best are always one step ahead of those trying to catch them. Lance and Michele Ferrari were always a step ahead. Why is this not happening in track and field?

Omar Little wrote:

There is illegal and there is unethical. Is getting a hypothyroid prescription or an asthma prescription or a viagra prescription for a person who is an elite athlete and otherwise healthy illegal or unethical. Remember the best are always one step ahead of those trying to catch them. Lance and Michele Ferrari were always a step ahead. Why is this not happening in track and field?

You definitely bring up a valid distinction that I wasn't considering. Either way, I would sure like to see Magness etc. say what goes on. Right now, no one really knows.

800m Coach wrote:

It is funny how nobody mentioned Rupp's super human qualities the week before when he couldn't finish a post race workout. In that workout Cam Levins outlasted him.

Doing 5 x 1 mile at slower than 10k pace, then a 4:04 mile (not 1600) is not overly impressive. This is a guy who can run 3:50 for the mile, 12:50 for 5000m and 26:48 for 10000m.

When did he run 12:50?

Darth V wrote:

800m Coach wrote:

It is funny how nobody mentioned Rupp's super human qualities the week before when he couldn't finish a post race workout. In that workout Cam Levins outlasted him.

Doing 5 x 1 mile at slower than 10k pace, then a 4:04 mile (not 1600) is not overly impressive. This is a guy who can run 3:50 for the mile, 12:50 for 5000m and 26:48 for 10000m.

When did he run 12:50?

The guy did say "could" and at 1:49, 3:50, 7:30 26:48 I think most would say he "could" and "should".

It will be interesting to see if does finally pop an outdoor 5000 that he is capable of. It's been eluding him.

Omar Little wrote:

The question I would like to see Alberto answer is does he make his former athletes and coaches sign a non-disclosure agreement when they leave OP and why? Clearly the answer is yes. That's why people who know whats going on aren't free to talk.

why do you want Alberto to answer that if you already know the answer?

If he answered no would you believe him?

First, there has been a lot of things said in this thread about how cowardly certain folks are not to speak their mind. There are lots of reasons why people who know cannot speak their mind and threat of legal action is probably at the top of the list. Second, threat of lack of support of Nike is likely next. Nike basically calls the shots at USATF now. There is very little incentive to blow the whistle Nike has covered up for lots of athletes in the past (or at least looked the other way until presumption of guilt was overwhelming. Earlier in this thread someone post Malmo's FB response to Craig Virgin. It said:

"Alberto answered any and every question that I asked, to my satisfaction...and I know all of the hard questions."

Well Malmo, I'm sure, knows a lot more about this sport than I do. But by your logic why should we believe Alberto's answers to Malmo either.

Mr. SIU -- that's what Lance said about all his accusers too. They were petty and jealous. I don't know Craig Virgin but petty and jealous is not how he comes off.

If you read 14 Minutes it is very revealing about Alberto. He wants to win and he has almost died a couple times in that effort.

Look at results and ask yourself do you really believe that Rupp is that talented and / or Salazar is that innovative a coach? The truly great coaches in this country -- Joe Vigil, Jack Daniels, Bob Larsen -- have never produced results close to this. Why can OP do it and no one else?

But bottom line, I don't think any of the people who are called out in this thread as cowards are. I think deep down at the elite level of track & field there are real problems with the sport. What you see, you cannot believe anymore. It all comes down to ego and power. And people who truly love the sport for what it was and should be are at a loss for what to do.

Omar Little wrote:

Look at results and ask yourself do you really believe that Rupp is that talented and / or Salazar is that innovative a coach? The truly great coaches in this country -- Joe Vigil, Jack Daniels, Bob Larsen -- have never produced results close to this. Why can OP do it and no one else?

Again, I don't know what is going on, but what seem to be presented as questions, can appear as indictments if read differently.

Who has Joe Vigil, Jack Daniels, or Bob Larsen worked with in the last 10 years that you think had the talent to be an American record holder on the track? Meb has had success at the marathon distance, but his track days are long behind him. By pure definition, there can only be one coach or program responsible for the training regime of the American record holder. That in and of itself does not raise doubts. Jerry has accomplished results with his athletes that I would say are at least "close" to what Rupp has done over the years.

Ask yourself if you know of any other 13:37 American junior athletes that have stuck with one coach and had several consecutive injury free years of training like Rupp has? Both Solinsky and Webb were able to accomplish magic moments that were in the same realm of existence as what Rupp has done. If each had another year or two of consistent, progressive training from those moments, is it inconceivable that they could have done more? When Solinsky broke 27, I think if anything he showed the kind of improvement that can occur for an athlete able to train and train without injury.

I'm not saying your questions are wrong, but equally viable questions can be asked that suggest something different than you imply with your line of questioning.

Shermanlane wrote:

Exactly. If they know something, let's hear it. Subtle cheap shots about drug use should be beneath someone like Craig Virgin (who was obviously a world class runner). Even if someone like Malmo (who was far from world-class)

World ranked 6th and 9th is far from world class?

Shermanlane wrote:

Exactly. If they know something, let's hear it. Subtle cheap shots about drug use should be beneath someone like Craig Virgin (who was obviously a world class runner). Even if someone like Malmo (who was far from world-class) knows something, he should speak up. It's cowardly to suggest that you have some big information about drug use by athletes, and then go into radio-silence mode.

Are you kidding? Malmo was ranked 6th in the world in the steeple in 1977, among other accomplishments. He may not have been one of the very top runners in the world (i.e. not in top 5, I suppose), but to be one of those guys, they had to get past guys like malmo to get there, and they probably had to hurt to do it.