Arthur Lydiard and his statements

It doesn´t matter how many posts you type, the truth doesn´t change. You obviously have no life based on the amount of posts you write here. Accept the truth, move on.

CHIEF RUNNING COACH is just that, a person who is in charge of some event but it does not mean that he is THE COACH for all athletes of his/her event. You should know this already so you just make a fool of yourself when you desperately try to proof that Arthur Lydiard was the coach of all Finnish best runners.

Get the book of Pekka Vasala and accept the truth.

And that (my emphasis) in your text invalidates the point of your post, anyway.

Enough! wrote:

Without ANY reference to either lying or Viren, can you tell us what you think of Lydiard's coaching ability and philosophies?

As Pekka Vasala tells in his book, I agree him that Arthur was a great inspirer and speaker but he wasn´t as good when he tried to coach, because he couldn´t take athletes as an individuals. Like Pekka Vasala says, he had a formula which he used everytime and everywhere, no matter of the athlete.

Ok. If you like I'll put it up again without emphasizing anything. That would validate it, right? And then you can put up something that's actually in print and relevant because you've had nine pages to do that so you must be about ready.

the truth: wrote:

You obviously have no life based on the amount of posts you write here. Accept the truth, move on.

Here once again, a pot calling a kettle black (or is this someone else too?). You realize you (the truth) have posted 5 times more (at least) than HRE. If I don't have life, I would have actually counted and posted the number so you won't accuse me of "lying".

Hey, but then again, HRE actually posted a quote from printed publication. You, on the other hand, keep repeating "Read the book, moron!"

HRE wrote:

Have you read "A Clean Pair of Heels?" Halberg specifically addresses Cerutty's claim to have coached him (Halberg.) He says it's completely untrue. He, Baillie, and Bill Rodger went to Oz for an extended stay prior to the Melbourne Olympics. They did spend some time at Portsea but had already been training with Lydiard.

I also raced against Viren while staying in Finland in 1975. I did not get to know him but I did know several people who were involved in Finnish athletics. There was COMPLETE agreement that what had happened with Finnish distance running in Munich would not have happened had Lydiard not come to Finland and explained his coaching methods.

And if I'm just fantasizing about that there must have been influential people in the Finnish government having the same fantasy as they gave Arthur the Finnish equivalent of knighthood.

WHAT!!!? You mean Cerutty LIED? And it's in a book!!!? We need to report to the elders of the church... Should we crucify him or stone him? But wait; he's dead too. We can bad-mouth Cerutty all we want! That's what this message board is for...

the truth: wrote:

As Pekka Vasala tells in his book, I agree him that Arthur was a great inspirer and speaker but he wasn´t as good when he tried to coach, because he couldn´t take athletes as an individuals. Like Pekka Vasala says, he had a formula which he used everytime and everywhere, no matter of the athlete.

This is interesting... If you claim that Lydiard didn't coach runners in Finland but he "only gave a couple of lectures", then how could anyone, even vasala, remotely judge Lydiard's coaching ability, or lack of, and say that he couldn't individualize his training program? Did he actually coach runners in Finland (which, to my knowledge, he didn't, including Viren and Vasala)? Or Almighty Vasala just decided to bad-mouth his fellow Cheif National Coach for the hell of it based on nothing.? Or are YOU just making this whole thing up? So what was his coaching result in Finland; who did he actually coach and how badly they perform because he didn't individualize the program? If Vasala claimed Lydiard wasn't very good at coaching individuals, then he (Lydiard) must have coached some individuals in Finland and he failed badly. Who were they? Or Vasala just decided not to mention ANY of those "proof"? Well, that's convenient, isn't it... So much for "the truth"...

By the way, you're not doing a very good job with this foreign accent thingie--it tends to come and go. Be a bit more consistent. Also, it's kind of hard to spread your posting when you're typing at a cyber cafe, isn't it? Or wait, maybe we just don't realize because you're under several different names...

The truth is, everyone who cares already knew that in Finland, Lydiard was a coach of coaches, a national advisor, a lecturer. (And by all accounts, everyone agrees that Lydiard was an exaggerator).Your unsupported allegations, third-party hearsay, and unfounded conclusions have done nothing to shed new light on truths that were known for 3 decades.

the truth: wrote:

CHIEF RUNNING COACH is just that, a person who is in charge of some event but it does not mean that he is THE COACH for all athletes of his/her event. You should know this already ...

the bottom line is that lydiard and cerutty both had a major roles in the development of training technique.

cerutty was more secretive when he was training his athletes and later published books. lydiard published his first book in between the rome and tokyo olympics, because he thought his system was that good.

its true that lydiard didn't invent everything, but he was one of the first to go around the world and spread his gospel.

even snell admitted that arthur sometimes bragged but that his system was correct.

in this interview

"Q: Have you ever talked with him about what you’ve learned, compared to what you did then?

Snell: No one is going to change Arthur’s – so I’m not even attempting to do that. I came to just use what I know to reinforce the merits of Arthur’s stuff. The only thing that bothers me a little bit is that I think he is exaggerating a bit now. And I hear that – well, I know exactly what I’ve done in training. And I think Arthur has been saying that the 100 miles a week I did was single training runs, but if you added the ?? it was a lot more, when there was a suggestion that more training was supposed to be better. And then he said, yeah, that’s what our guys did. But that’s just not correct. When we trained, we counted every step [laughs], essentially"

http://fitnessintuition.com/2009/05/26/an-interview-with-three-times-olympic-gold-medalist-peter-snell/

the truth: wrote:

As Pekka Vasala tells in his book, I agree him that Arthur was a great inspirer and speaker but he wasn´t as good when he tried to coach, because he couldn´t take athletes as an individuals. Like Pekka Vasala says, he had a formula which he used everytime and everywhere, no matter of the athlete.

Yeah, I'm sure that's why he coached Snell (800m), Halberg (5000m), Barry Magee (marathon) all of these guys to the Olympic medals.

...and not to mention Davies to another Olympic medal and Baillie to 6th place finish as well as several world record and, particularly for Baillie, national titles ranging from 800m up to 20K. That's only, what, 5 runners. Not to mention 2 other guys he took to 2 Olympics, Puckett and Julian. That's 7. What's the chance of having "only" 7 runners, out of about 20 that he directly coached around his hometown, so individually different that he had to coach them individually. Just give them the same formula and they'll all come out the same, right? Yeah, must be.

In the absence of The Truth while he stepped out the cyber cafe, let's summarize the thread:

The point the Truth (or Thruth) is trying to make:

1) Lydiard didn't coach Viren (we all knew that for 30 years)

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2) Lydiard lied (based on Vasala's book and the quote he had not been able to provide)

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3) Lydiard was a lousy coach (based on Vasala's book and his "life experience")

Evidence:

The Truth--> Vasala's book but no actual quote

The rest of us--> IAAF site (Lydiard's direct quote); Vasala's quote (back cover of "Running with Lydiard")

Hmmmm...

well, this truth guy is likely "skuj" an anti lydiard canadian "coach" who pulls this baseless crap on pro lydiard people. could be "wellnow". i don't mind opinions but i do mind attacks and wish both would go away.

Right, this is exactly the case. I have read Snell's book too and didn't get it for some reason, maybe because I had seen it all somewhere else and I am more interested in the distance events. Anyway sure I have Halberg's book too, "A Clean Pair of Heels", which is interesting reading. Either in that one or Elliott's book or both there are numerous photos and stories of Halberg running with Elliott, at Portsea and with the direction of Percy Cerutty.

In fact there is more in these books about Halberg training at Porsea then there is of him training with Lydiard, then sure he says that Lydiard was his coach, which I already said. The point is that he got just about everything he did from Cerutty, trotted it back to Lydiard, then said that Lydiard was his coach. Haha. Yeah why didn't he tell Cerutty at the start, then Cerutty would have booted him out of the camp.

I see Halberg as being ungrateful, and he was a "go along" person, meaning he gave Lydiard the recognition because he lived close to him, and didn't want to be on bad terms with Lydiard, knowing if he didn't say everything that Lydiard wanted that there would be tension between them. Everyone who knows even a little about Lydiard knows that this was the case. Finally there are many more world records, something like 30 or 40, that came out of Cerutty's Portsea, than Lydiard got from using other people's methods and then taking the credit.

Percy Cerutty on the other hand was a very UNIQUE person, who did things that no one had ever done before. He didn't care about trying to steal things from others and had no time for that. He trained the ATHLETES, and had no time for coaches, who couldn't do what they were telling the runners. Did Lydiard ever run up sandhills? NO. Cerutty did.

Lydiard began bragging because he needed to sell his

Method, he needed to make a living and his rothman's sponsorship ended.

The thing that frustrated me the most about lydiard was that he felt all other systems were less than his. he visited lmya in 1992 and found out that they already had a system, that Spanish too.

He never said that their systems were different but were variations of his system, taking credit. He never even claimed these things many times but had garth gilmour pump up his ego when he wrote of him in his book.

Surely it's neither "skuj" nor "wellnow". They may each have there own issues, but at least at some level they are coherent, and consistent.

posted under another "name" wrote:

well, this truth guy is likely "skuj" an anti lydiard canadian "coach" who pulls this baseless crap on pro lydiard people. could be "wellnow". i don't mind opinions but i do mind attacks and wish both would go away.

Percy Cerutty up the hill

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2008/10/10/28_cerutty_wideweb__470x345,0.jpg

Cerutty Sprinting

http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/5086b2db958c9aa3_landing

Cerutty Lecture

http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/d7c3a199c7ec2c5b_landing

Sprinting with Elliott

http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/4318147f7bccf715_landing

After a Victory

http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/d7db7b2ed370aa04_landing

Elliott up the rope

http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/7ce875218b70a389_landing

Headstand

http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/6e4b3835d370cfc3_landing

Cerutty lifting weight

http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/3f4c3d6705edaf6e_landing

I have a big photo of Cerutty and Elliott up the hill somewhere but don't find it at the moment.