Apparently Dave Smith tried to get Centro DQed from NCAAs and he has not forgotten, lmao.
Ran for Dave a long time ago. Won't say much about my experience but will say I support anyone who speaks out against him. Importing talent just shouts to the world you're too pathetic of a coach to develop talent yourself. Also, foreigners are more likely to tolerate terrible treatment because they have more to lose. Native born athletes can more easily transfer or quit. Happy to see more people calling out Dave for what he is.
As a junior college coach, I prefer (in theory) to have a team exclusively of American kids, but in practice, the Jamaican and Guyanese athletes I’ve had were much easier and more fun to coach, as they were grateful for the opportunity to run at an American college, they were serious students and did not have a sense of entitlement like the current generation seems to have. I think an 80/20 mix makes some sense in that the American kids can learn a lot from the foreign studs.
Do you all have a problem with the rest of NCAA sports too then?
Foreign athletes are common in every other support , perhaps less so in American football. This is not a unique product of competitive running.
It's the way of the whole ncaa system right now, everything getting monetized, leaving the realm of education institution run by values and culture from tradition and entering free market capitalism.
Just saying it's not this unique thing with east africa and running and Dave Smith.
Yes I do if they are overage and make up the bulk of the team. And that goes for white foreigners too. I'm not opposed to internationals at NCAA's and that includes Africans. They do help make the sport better and it's good culturally for college athletes to interact with people from other countries. But not 28 year old established athletes. And it's not just DI. D2 is becoming full of them too. Wingate won D2 with an all white foreign roster and I'm opposed to that as well. The D2 pentathlon was won by a 28 year old French woman with international experience. How is that good for the sport?
This exactly. I'm going to be rooting like crazy next year for Yohannes Van Meerten, for example. But he's probably not going to stand a chance because Yohannes will be an 18 year old kid and the people he'll be going against will be 24 year old former pros.
Look at how a Drew Griffith type got absolutely swallowed by the talent in the NCAA the minute he came in. It's actually nuts how competitive it is right now, a stud distance freshman should automatically make a difference in his conference but they don't now.
Nobody cares if you can even break 14 in hs. The game in college doesn't start until you drop that early 13:20 type race that Blanks had as a freshman or running 13:10 as a sophomore like Rocky Hansen. That's a gut bunch to these fast 14:30 xc runners in hs, I remember when nobody could run a 14:30 in xc. And anytime somebody broke 15 on a xc course everybody would say it's short lol. They have kids who were top 10 at NXN running the B races at Nuttycombe and other invitationals now man.
Apparently Dave Smith tried to get Centro DQed from NCAAs and he has not forgotten, lmao.
Anyone know what NCAAs race this was? Curious if anyone knows the story / has hypotheses for which one it is
Let me make a few points.
1) My #1 take on this whole age/too many foreigners discussions is - let's don't be hypocrtical.
And Centro claims that's why he was upset about Dave Smith.
The problem is Centro seems to have his facts incorrect. Dave Smith had no one in the mile in NCAAs in 2009. He only had 1 guy in the meet - a guy who was DQd for false starting in the 3k. So I'm pretty sure it had to be a different coach - not Dave - that tried to get Centro DQd.
So while Centro's line about the afterparty location was kind of clever, his whole anger was seemingly misguided.
2) I also can't believe Ed Eyestone of all the coaches is complaining about overage athletes. He's won a slew of NCAA titles thanks to overage athletes. The reality is that while Doris Lemngrole is older than both Parker Valby and Katelyn Tuohy, she is still younger than Conner Mantz was wen he won his first NCAA title.
3) We can all agee that there is a huge difference between recruiting normal age foreigners and 28-year-old freshman. We need an age limit. Dave Smith's teams aren't built on overage athletes. We can also admit that Mormon kid coming back form his mission isn't going to do anything in year 1. Both Dave and Ed Eyestone are good coaches
4) Abolishing SAT/ACT requirements is a huge reason as to why we have this problem.
Anyone know what NCAAs race this was? Curious if anyone knows the story / has hypotheses for which one it is
Let me make a few points.
1) My #1 take on this whole age/too many foreigners discussions is - let's don't be hypocrtical.
And Centro claims that's why he was upset about Dave Smith.
The problem is Centro seems to have his facts incorrect. Dave Smith had no one in the mile in NCAAs in 2009. He only had 1 guy in the meet - a guy who was DQd for false starting in the 3k. So I'm pretty sure it had to be a different coach - not Dave - that tried to get Centro DQd.
So while Centro's line about the afterparty location was kind of clever, his whole anger was seemingly misguided.
2) I also can't believe Ed Eyestone of all the coaches is complaining about overage athletes. He's won a slew of NCAA titles thanks to overage athletes. The reality is that while Doris Lemngrole is older than both Parker Valby and Katelyn Tuohy, she is still younger than Conner Mantz was wen he won his first NCAA title.
3) We can all agee that there is a huge difference between recruiting normal age foreigners and 28-year-old freshman. We need an age limit. Dave Smith's teams aren't built on overage athletes. We can also admit that Mormon kid coming back form his mission isn't going to do anything in year 1. Both Dave and Ed Eyestone are good coaches
4) Abolishing SAT/ACT requirements is a huge reason as to why we have this problem.
RoJo, read the room.
Dave Smith imported a 49 pt team. Then, a year later, they failed to defend because Dave Smith couldn't get out of his own way. In his own words, he "overcooked" them. That is so bad.
Eyestone is a legendary coach. There's no getting around having two top 10 Olympic marathoners and an Olympic silver steepler, all in the same Olympiad. That doesn't happen because his guys go on mission.
Dave Smith and Ed Eyestone don't belong in the same sentence.
For the 1992 NCAA Division I men’s championship, the top 50 was overwhelmingly American, with only a small number of foreign-born athletes, and just 2 Kenyans ahead of Dave Smith in 51st. Fast forward 33 years later. Beyond the 2 Kenyans, there were only a handful of other foreign-born runners (primarily from Ireland and the U.K.) in that top-50 group, in stark contrast to the 38 foreign-born athletes in the 2025 top 50. At 22 in 1992, without a coach’s long‑view, he would likely frame it viscerally: “If I put in the same work now, would I even be top 100?”—and that could feel unfair or disheartening, even if he accepted that everyone was following the rules.
You wouldn’t be complaining if they didn’t win. I agree that we need to change the rules but don’t get made at a coach following the rules and making the best team.
Do you need a rule to do the right thing? Especially when it's hurting your country.
NCAA cross country results are hurting my country? You wouldn’t happen to be one of them conservative snowflake quieers would you?
1) My #1 take on this whole age/too many foreigners discussions is - let's don't be hypocrtical.
And Centro claims that's why he was upset about Dave Smith.
The problem is Centro seems to have his facts incorrect. Dave Smith had no one in the mile in NCAAs in 2009. He only had 1 guy in the meet - a guy who was DQd for false starting in the 3k. So I'm pretty sure it had to be a different coach - not Dave - that tried to get Centro DQd.
So while Centro's line about the afterparty location was kind of clever, his whole anger was seemingly misguided.
2) I also can't believe Ed Eyestone of all the coaches is complaining about overage athletes. He's won a slew of NCAA titles thanks to overage athletes. The reality is that while Doris Lemngrole is older than both Parker Valby and Katelyn Tuohy, she is still younger than Conner Mantz was wen he won his first NCAA title.
3) We can all agee that there is a huge difference between recruiting normal age foreigners and 28-year-old freshman. We need an age limit. Dave Smith's teams aren't built on overage athletes. We can also admit that Mormon kid coming back form his mission isn't going to do anything in year 1. Both Dave and Ed Eyestone are good coaches
4) Abolishing SAT/ACT requirements is a huge reason as to why we have this problem.
RoJo, read the room.
Dave Smith imported a 49 pt team. Then, a year later, they failed to defend because Dave Smith couldn't get out of his own way. In his own words, he "overcooked" them. That is so bad.
Eyestone is a legendary coach. There's no getting around having two top 10 Olympic marathoners and an Olympic silver steepler, all in the same Olympiad. That doesn't happen because his guys go on mission.
Dave Smith and Ed Eyestone don't belong in the same sentence.
All irrelevant points.
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"Comfort must not be expected by folks that go a pleasuring."
1) My #1 take on this whole age/too many foreigners discussions is - let's don't be hypocrtical.
And Centro claims that's why he was upset about Dave Smith.
The problem is Centro seems to have his facts incorrect. Dave Smith had no one in the mile in NCAAs in 2009. He only had 1 guy in the meet - a guy who was DQd for false starting in the 3k. So I'm pretty sure it had to be a different coach - not Dave - that tried to get Centro DQd.
So while Centro's line about the afterparty location was kind of clever, his whole anger was seemingly misguided.
2) I also can't believe Ed Eyestone of all the coaches is complaining about overage athletes. He's won a slew of NCAA titles thanks to overage athletes. The reality is that while Doris Lemngrole is older than both Parker Valby and Katelyn Tuohy, she is still younger than Conner Mantz was wen he won his first NCAA title.
3) We can all agee that there is a huge difference between recruiting normal age foreigners and 28-year-old freshman. We need an age limit. Dave Smith's teams aren't built on overage athletes. We can also admit that Mormon kid coming back form his mission isn't going to do anything in year 1. Both Dave and Ed Eyestone are good coaches
4) Abolishing SAT/ACT requirements is a huge reason as to why we have this problem.
1) Wasn’t it 2009 indoors? Did D Smith have any athletes in that race?
2) let’s define “overaged” - someone that walks/rides a bike for 2 years proselytizing or someone training like a pro for 4 to 6 years after HS and enters the NCAA as a freshman? You’re trying to conflate an apple and an orange to support your hypocrisy claim. Of course Eyestone has every right to complain. I’m glad he did and you’re to be commended for asking the question.
3) How can you say with any certainty that Smith’s teams aren’t built on overaged athletes? You don’t know, I’m doubtful Smith knows or cares and sometimes even the athletes don’t know how old they are. But if you had to guess, based on past experience, it’s likely or factual that OSU, UNM, ISU, WSU, Alabama, et al, teams are built on overaged athletes.
4) The whole student/athlete model certainly has been cast aside in this latest arms race. With the advent of online courses and AI you don’t even need to be on campus, train at your leisure and fly to the meets.
Centro’s playful jab at Dave Smith definitely stirred the conversation, especially with the “afterparty” joke between Stillwater and Iten. Moments like these show how fun and competitive the running world can be. It almost feels like the energy people share when sending Birthday Wishes for Friends—light-hearted, teasing, and full of good vibes.