“My testicles don’t make me less of a woman,” ~ Caster Semenya

you're imply semenya's the child's literal father. you are making a leap from artificial insemination to her doing so. my understanding is you can't get semen from undescended testes never surgically corrected. even if corrected it's a low fertility rate.

how many times can you be wrong in one thread? even the headline on this thread is misleading.

you're equating yourself to the IAAF and saying if we disagree with you we disagree with them. i have zero problem with IAAF on this. they are wrestling honestly with the details and doing their best to lay down some boundaries. they aren't hiding behind the IAAF while getting the facts wrong and really pushing some other agenda than the IAAF's "middle position." which in case you need to be reminded is they can participate within certain hormone levels in anything, and that others can run in longer events where testosterone is seen as less advantageous. you're pretending to be the IAAF while really having a very superficial "pull down your dress" type take. then since those facts don't really help you, denying what you see. or referencing XY chromosomes like that means you come out biological male.
you're a conservative who has begun to tiptoe into the weeds but then essentially defaults back to 2 boxes when pressed. let the facts wash over you and wake up.

personally the answer i see is adding one or more divisions and making it more like paralympics where even my red state has a wheelchair division now. we are fighting this because the IOC wants to keep the participant numbers down and the christian conservatives are more old testament than new.

the "tell" that this is biblical/cultural is they aren't the slightest bit concerned with XXY, or men with some female charachteristics, competing as men. they barely use any science and they aren't using it to watch the male boundaries. it's an obsession with defining woman alone.

The term "intersex" is not accurate for Semenya - nor for people with most of the other 40 or so different conditions considered to be disorders of sex development. Which is why I don't use it.

"Intersex" is a political term, not a medical one. Most people with DSDs, their families, the health care providers who treat people with DSDs, and scientists who study DSDs do not use the term "intersex" - especially not nowadays. The people who use the term are primarily political activists and gender identity ideologues steeped in queer theory who constantly bring up and harp on DSDs in humans as supposed evidence for their claim that "sex isn't binary."

Semenya personally rejects the term "intersex" too. Semenya said in a recent guest essay in the NY Times that it's insulting, stigmatizing, dehumanizing and othering.

In this, Semenya is hardly alone. From a piece published in the medical journal European Urology objecting to a 2015 report put out by the Council of Europe about "intesex people" that was written by "LGBT" human rights activists:

the term "intersex people" is not widely recognised as appropriate among adults and children having atypical sex development.

the majority of medical professionals, and many patients and parents, consider the term "intersex" inappropriate and feel that it increases a sense of stigma around individuals living with these conditions

The terms differences of sex development and variances of sex development are sometimes used to refer to the conditions as a group, although in practice families and affected individuals tend to use the specific name for their condition or that of their child, and few would refer to themselves or their child as “intersex”.

Semenya has been using the word "vagina" to mean "vulva" since high school. So there, you have learned something. Semenya has repeated said that at high school track meets the other track teams thought that Semenya was a boy. So Semenya said that Semenya would show one of the girls on the other team what Semenya calls a "vagina" which of course Semenya doesn't have.

Clearly Semenya was not submitting to a full gynological exam done by a high school girl behind the bleachers at a track meet, so it was impossible for another girl to see if Semenya had a vagina or not. The other girls simply saw no penis and incorrectly assumed Semenya was a biological female.

Just because Semenya claims to have a certain body part doesn't mean that Semenya actually has it. You, like many other people, have been fooled.

Once again, Semenya is a biological male whose penis didn't grow and whose testes didn't descend into the scrotum. So the scrotum never had to expand to hold testes which means that there is nothing hanging between Semenya's legs. A biological male whose scrotum does not contain testes is NOT a female part.

You are trying to argue without having all the facts. You are simply wrong. Semenya is a 100% biological male without a penis. So knock it off with this ridiculous vagina talk.

She’s at least published and has a huge huge following. When is the 86,743-page Verbosa TERF Bible going to get published?

That rule was changed. Biological males can no longer participate in female races in longer events without significantly reducing their testosterone.

None of this matters for the issue at hand.

FWIW, vagina is just a more common word than vulva that many layspeakers use interchangeably, so no big deal. As for “100% biological male without a penis”, that is just terminology you invented out of your rear, not one used in medicine or anywhere in the real world for any meaningful purpose.

Ironically, you and Semenya don't like the term "intersex" for very different reasons. You don't like it because you know that Semenya isn't part of two sexes. You know that Semenya is in fact a biological male with a birth defect.

And Semenya doesn't like the term "intersex" because Semenya is still trying to fool people into thinking that Semenya is 100% female.

At least Semenya is no longer taking away prize money and medals from biological females.

Good, so “biological males” can be females as far as elite running is concerned at least, so running must not be categorized based on sex alone.

Semenya is NOT any part female, which means that Semenya is 100% male.

Semenya does NOT have a penis.

So what I wrote is factually correct, whether you like it or not.

$100 that Semenya agrees on almost nothing at all with Transphobia Verbosa.

Looks like you don’t disagree with anything I actually said.

If you have evidence that Semenya "was classifed female at birth," please share it.

Semenya's birth didn't occur in a medical setting or under medical supervision. Semenya did not get any medical checkups as a newborn baby, older infant, toddler or young child. So there are no health records dating to the time of Semenya's birth, infancy or early childhood to check.

Similarly, there are no birth registry records dating to the time of Semenya's birth or childhood showing that Semenya "was classified as female" as a newborn, young child, pre-teen or young teen, either.

Semenya's first birth certificate was issued in April, 2007, when Semenya was 16. That was after Semenya had given up playing on boys' sports teams and had switched to competing and cleaning up in girls' running.

The birth certificate issued for Semenya at age 16 does say that Semenya's sex is female. However, it was issued by the same corruption-plagued South African government whose sports officials had already realized that presenting Semenya to the world as SA's "golden girl" runner could be used to obtain easy gold, glory and political gain.

If there really were medical records or legal documents dating to the time of Semenya's birth, infancy or early childhood showing that Semenya "was classified female at birth" like you claim, what's the explanation for why neither Semenya nor Semenya's world-class legal team bothered to provide this evidence in court?

Please don't misrepresent my position like this. It's not only inaccurate, it makes me seem completely illogical.

You're correct that I and others familar with Semenya's DSD "know that Semenya is a biological male with a birth defect." But it's totally off-base to say this means I am of the view that "Semenya isn't part of the two sexes."

Male and female people born with atypical genitals are just as much "part of the two sexes" as everyone else.

BTW, I personally dislike and eschew the term "intersex" for a variety of reasons. One of which is that most DSDs are sex-specific, occurring only in females or males.

For example, CAH, MRKH and Turner syndrome are female-only DSDs. Whereas Semenya's DSD is a male-only DSD.

The underlying condition behind Semenya's DSD - an enzyne deficiency known as 5-ARD2 - occurs with equal prevalance in both sexes, but it only affects the sex development of males. Thus it's only a DSD in males. If Semenya were female, Semenya's 5-ARD2 would have had no impact whatsoever on Semenya's sex development.

This BS terminology is just Verbosa opinion, not fact, and not an opinion shared by most mainstream medical practitioners or scientists.

Do you have any real life friends with whom you have normal conversations? Or do you just attack everyone left and right? Poor guy was obviously just supporting you, yet you choose to read hastily (or not read) and knee-jerkedly disagree and yet mean the same thing as him.

Seriously? People see her fully clothed and know immediately that she's male.

Yours or anyone else’s opinion about her sex is irrelevant.