I have literally seen women’s dating profiles saying they want short or specifically under a certain height.
Looking up at a much taller partner can be uncomfortable
My coworker, who's not a short or unattractive woman, said she prefers the short kings. One of her office crushes is a guy who's 5'5". This stereotype that women only like guys above a certain height is stupid ridiculous and just an excuse that incels make when they can't find someone.
I've found that there are a very select few women who have a firm height requirement and won't date men below it. Then there's women who say they prefer men over a certain height, but will make exceptions to guys who can attract them in other ways. Then, the category I've found most women fall under, are the women who don't care about height at all or will date any guy who doesn't fall on the extreme ends of the height spectrum. This has been my experience, so I hope this clears up the confusion.
Yes! I'm in my late 20s, and so many men need to actually talk with real women about what they want/like, cause then they would find out that all women actually arn't as shallow as the negative stereotype that has been taught to them by other men
I'm only 5'9 and an inch taller than my girlfriend, she does not care. Literally does not care one bit that I'm not considered "tall" for a dude. She thinks I'm perfect, and means it.
Disclaimer, she's met and dated/slept lots of great tall men (I don't give a sh*t, she picked my 5'9 self in the end), but if we're to put labels on people, she said that she would rather date a guy that's around her height than a super tall guy, because the tall guys she and her female friends have dated (6'6 guy, a 6'4 guy, 6'2 guy, etc) almost all had so many issues, were so immature, did not act like adults in an adult relationship. Instead most tall/cute guys had "peaked in high school" vibes, and were used to getting their way in high school/college relationships. So they are now adults who never learned about sacrifice, never felt the need to contribute to household chores/cooking, and don't know how to communicate/etc. So the women don't feel like settling for that sh&t. In fact most women I meet are the opposite of shallow, they'll ditch the "cute" guy for the average looking guy that treats them well any day of the week
Most of my female friends will say that height/dick size/income/looks ect is not even close to being the most important thing to them
Another example is my girlfriend's sister: is such a sweetheart, so pretty, is young, makes great money, super funny, has no kids, but because she's considered overweight (is a women's 2XL) she could never get dates with fellow overweight men her age. She would ask them on dates, make the effort, was hands down the better/cooler person compared to them. And most of these loser men were too vain and wanted a cute skinny girl instead. So she stopped trying with them, and ended up in a very happy marriage with a man who is 13 years older than her, has 2 kids from an ex-wife, and a bad credit score fro the divorce. She literally took on all of that baggage and did not care cause she loves her husband, and he loves her right back! And those other immature men are still single and complaining that women suck and are vain
I have a college teammate, was the best runner on the women's team, made ncaa nationals. Is a total catch, funny in that blunt humor kinda way, a size 2, wants kids, etc. She graduated and got a job after college where she fell in love with the sweet, funny, chubby guy at her office. This summer they just got married, and are planning to have a baby next year. And I cannot think of a single male teammate who ended up with a women that's simnifically bigger than theirselves. But can think of a ton of other female teammates who did
They're all amazing people and all found amazing happy relationships with others, becuase they're not immature, childish, and vain. But let's just hypothetic look at the relationships if we were to be judgey and vain: from looking at actual real life relationships in my life/family/work/ect, the women is 8/10 the one that settled for the guy and not the other way around.
The lie that women are shallow is so laughable. Sure some are, but so are some men. As a whole, hands down the female population is the less shallow group
This post was edited 11 minutes after it was posted.
Of $ gives you more options -- all other things being equal. But your baseline for dating options is always going to be determined by your looks. That's the real differentiating variable. Let's say you have an attractive guy and an unattractive guy, each of average economic status. Out of 1,000 women, maybe 700 would go on a with date the attractive guy and 2 would go on a date the unattractive guy. Now make the attractive guy have low economic status and the unattractive guy have high economic status. The unattractive guy maybe gets 3x as many, meaning precisely 6, dates. The attractive guy maybe gets only 0.2x as many, which is 140. The attractive guy still has an easy time with dating and the unattractive guy still has a super tough time.
IMHO- I've 64 and for the last 10 years have been divorced. I've dated a few women much younger than I am- one was 28 when I was 59. A couple in their mid to late 30's and one in her 40's.
The younger ones, especially, told me that "men" their age just seem weak and immature. As if they have the emotional maturity of a middle school boy.
The don't understand basic gentlemanly behavior like holding doors, taking off their hat in the presence of a woman, even good grooming and dress.
For all the down votes- don't shoot the messenger.
"They don't understand basic gentlemanly behavior like holding doors, taking off their hat in the presence of a woman, even good grooming and dress."
Women don't care about that kinda stuff. That's not what they mean when they say they want men to be men and step it up in relationships
Women want men that will treat them like equals, and created a shared life where both the husband and wife are benefiting.
So many men expect women to bring in half the income, yet still do all the chores, pop out babies, come home and make them a hot dinner, do their laundry, while never gaining an ounce of weight, and are okay with the fact that in order to do all this the women would never have time for her friends, hobbies, time to relax, etc. Oh, but the man better get to keep his boys nights, unwind after work with a beer, go on his 50 miles of runs a week. Meanwhile mom is stuck home constantly watching the kids, and the only time she gets to run is when she has to push a baby stroller cause her husband doesn't even know how to take care of their 8 month old for more than 15 minutes alone without calling mom for help.
We're no longer in a life where women need men to get by. Young women dating nowadays had grandmas who had to stay in abusive marriages because women couldnt have their own bank accounts, good paying jobs, or buy houses without a men approving.
And then their moms technically gained most of those rights, but with the trade off "well fine, you can work and make money, but you're still expected to do all of the household chores and childcare duties" and thus were over worked, stretched thin, etc.
Young women who are dating now saw these older women give up their lives for their men, just for those men to use them up and discard them. Most men won't even stick around if their wife is terminally ill, the stat is so high that the doctors have to be trained to warn women about this if the women is diagnosed with cancer or something (so that she knows that she needs to look for other people in her live to be her support network). Whereas most women stay and take care of their husband.
It's not that the women of today are "picky," or that dating apps ruined things, it's that women finally have the consequence-free choice of not having to settle for whatever crappy man comes their way first
Those past older women would hands down be just as "picky" as women today. I've met a lot of grannies that even tell their granddaughters never to marry cause it's a scam for women lol
Women are stuck being picky today cause a lot of men never learned how to be an equal in a relationship
I see time and time again men that won't make sacrifices for their relationship, but will expect their female partner to always be on board with changes in their life
This post was edited 24 seconds after it was posted.
This is a problem all over the developed world. Socio-economic-technological factors somehow made both men and women choosier, arguably more so women. Around half the population, and climbing, is choosing to remain single because it's either that or "settle" for someone you're not really attracted to. Certainly, the media, including social media, has had an effect, because people are bombarded with images of good-looking, successful people every minute of their life.
Haven't read through the thread, but to me it seems obvious that a huge factor would be the easy availability of Internet porn.
Instead of chatting up chicks--with its high percentage of failure--tons of guys just spend their time chalking the cue with videos/chats/images that won't say no.
The decline in single men looking for dates in the US is attributed to various factors such as social media, online porn, women's selectivity, and the devaluation of young men in society, leading to social disconnect and nega...
IMHO- I've 64 and for the last 10 years have been divorced. I've dated a few women much younger than I am- one was 28 when I was 59. A couple in their mid to late 30's and one in her 40's.
The younger ones, especially, told me that "men" their age just seem weak and immature. As if they have the emotional maturity of a middle school boy.
The don't understand basic gentlemanly behavior like holding doors, taking off their hat in the presence of a woman, even good grooming and dress.
For all the down votes- don't shoot the messenger.
"They don't understand basic gentlemanly behavior like holding doors, taking off their hat in the presence of a woman, even good grooming and dress."
Women don't care about that kinda stuff. That's not what they mean when they say they want men to be men and step it up in relationships
Women want men that will treat them like equals, and created a shared life where both the husband and wife are benefiting.
You're both wrong.
Women want one thing only: attractive men
being polite doesn't matter, treating them like equals doesn't matter.
You really have issues with women, don't you? I have been "asked out" and worse by men far too much in my life. You sound like you're talking about a sitcom from the seventies as you seem to have no idea how real life works for the average person. Even your terminology is cringey. In my thirties, I'm married and not interested in sleeping around with multiple partners. Why are you so invested in portraying not wanting to sleep around and being monogamous with your spouse as unusual?
Again, if a woman says no, or tells you you are doing it wrong, if you don't listen, you're going to end up in trouble. Thats if you haven't already...So yes, you will be sticking with your desperate, naive, lonely women with poor personal boundaries, and yes, you probably do lie to them to get them into bed.
When did I say that? Give me the exact quote saying that you being monogamous is unusual. I really don't care what you do with your life. I don't know what psychological issues you're trying to work out by engaging in this argument, but all I'm going to say is that you definitely don't speak on behalf of all women.
Many women, especially the ones interested in having sex and dating, enjoy flirtation. For some, this may involve having more overtly sexual conversations, others not as much or not at all (as evidenced by the . This will look different depending on the people involved and situation. Men fail to understand this, and how to do it in an appropriate way, which is why women complain that men are boring and don't know how to talk with women.
IMHO- I've 64 and for the last 10 years have been divorced. I've dated a few women much younger than I am- one was 28 when I was 59. A couple in their mid to late 30's and one in her 40's.
The younger ones, especially, told me that "men" their age just seem weak and immature. As if they have the emotional maturity of a middle school boy.
The don't understand basic gentlemanly behavior like holding doors, taking off their hat in the presence of a woman, even good grooming and dress.
For all the down votes- don't shoot the messenger.
"They don't understand basic gentlemanly behavior like holding doors, taking off their hat in the presence of a woman, even good grooming and dress."
Women don't care about that kinda stuff. That's not what they mean when they say they want men to be men and step it up in relationships
Women want men that will treat them like equals, and created a shared life where both the husband and wife are benefiting.
So many men expect women to bring in half the income, yet still do all the chores, pop out babies, come home and make them a hot dinner, do their laundry, while never gaining an ounce of weight, and are okay with the fact that in order to do all this the women would never have time for her friends, hobbies, time to relax, etc. Oh, but the man better get to keep his boys nights, unwind after work with a beer, go on his 50 miles of runs a week. Meanwhile mom is stuck home constantly watching the kids, and the only time she gets to run is when she has to push a baby stroller cause her husband doesn't even know how to take care of their 8 month old for more than 15 minutes alone without calling mom for help.
We're no longer in a life where women need men to get by. Young women dating nowadays had grandmas who had to stay in abusive marriages because women couldnt have their own bank accounts, good paying jobs, or buy houses without a men approving.
And then their moms technically gained most of those rights, but with the trade off "well fine, you can work and make money, but you're still expected to do all of the household chores and childcare duties" and thus were over worked, stretched thin, etc.
Young women who are dating now saw these older women give up their lives for their men, just for those men to use them up and discard them. Most men won't even stick around if their wife is terminally ill, the stat is so high that the doctors have to be trained to warn women about this if the women is diagnosed with cancer or something (so that she knows that she needs to look for other people in her live to be her support network). Whereas most women stay and take care of their husband.
It's not that the women of today are "picky," or that dating apps ruined things, it's that women finally have the consequence-free choice of not having to settle for whatever crappy man comes their way first
Those past older women would hands down be just as "picky" as women today. I've met a lot of grannies that even tell their granddaughters never to marry cause it's a scam for women lol
Women are stuck being picky today cause a lot of men never learned how to be an equal in a relationship
I see time and time again men that won't make sacrifices for their relationship, but will expect their female partner to always be on board with changes in their life
Lol this explanation has always perplexed me. It basically says "oh us women were so oppressed, the men wouldn't let us work and we had to stay at home to do chores and take care of the kids. Now things are better and I get to do all three by myself!" It just doesn't really hold up, and the statistics on depression rates and subjective well-being measures don't really go along with this narrative. If being married in previous generations was so horrible, and women are happier single and financially independent as they are now, then we should see an improvement in measures of depression and well-being among women. Spoiler alert: we don't, we have found the opposite. This phenomenon is known as the Female Happiness Paradox. If women are really choosing independence over marriage, then it's very possible they are doing so at expense to their mental health.
"They don't understand basic gentlemanly behavior like holding doors, taking off their hat in the presence of a woman, even good grooming and dress."
Women don't care about that kinda stuff. That's not what they mean when they say they want men to be men and step it up in relationships
Women want men that will treat them like equals, and created a shared life where both the husband and wife are benefiting.
So many men expect women to bring in half the income, yet still do all the chores, pop out babies, come home and make them a hot dinner, do their laundry, while never gaining an ounce of weight, and are okay with the fact that in order to do all this the women would never have time for her friends, hobbies, time to relax, etc. Oh, but the man better get to keep his boys nights, unwind after work with a beer, go on his 50 miles of runs a week. Meanwhile mom is stuck home constantly watching the kids, and the only time she gets to run is when she has to push a baby stroller cause her husband doesn't even know how to take care of their 8 month old for more than 15 minutes alone without calling mom for help.
We're no longer in a life where women need men to get by. Young women dating nowadays had grandmas who had to stay in abusive marriages because women couldnt have their own bank accounts, good paying jobs, or buy houses without a men approving.
And then their moms technically gained most of those rights, but with the trade off "well fine, you can work and make money, but you're still expected to do all of the household chores and childcare duties" and thus were over worked, stretched thin, etc.
Young women who are dating now saw these older women give up their lives for their men, just for those men to use them up and discard them. Most men won't even stick around if their wife is terminally ill, the stat is so high that the doctors have to be trained to warn women about this if the women is diagnosed with cancer or something (so that she knows that she needs to look for other people in her live to be her support network). Whereas most women stay and take care of their husband.
It's not that the women of today are "picky," or that dating apps ruined things, it's that women finally have the consequence-free choice of not having to settle for whatever crappy man comes their way first
Those past older women would hands down be just as "picky" as women today. I've met a lot of grannies that even tell their granddaughters never to marry cause it's a scam for women lol
Women are stuck being picky today cause a lot of men never learned how to be an equal in a relationship
I see time and time again men that won't make sacrifices for their relationship, but will expect their female partner to always be on board with changes in their life
Lol this explanation has always perplexed me. It basically says "oh us women were so oppressed, the men wouldn't let us work and we had to stay at home to do chores and take care of the kids. Now things are better and I get to do all three by myself!" It just doesn't really hold up, and the statistics on depression rates and subjective well-being measures don't really go along with this narrative. If being married in previous generations was so horrible, and women are happier single and financially independent as they are now, then we should see an improvement in measures of depression and well-being among women. Spoiler alert: we don't, we have found the opposite. This phenomenon is known as the Female Happiness Paradox. If women are really choosing independence over marriage, then it's very possible they are doing so at expense to their mental health.
Spoiler alert, male letsrun commenter uses big word to sound cool, doesn't even know how the "Female Happiness Paradox" actually works
Time/date doesn't matter, so the argument about women married back in the day verses single now has nothing to do with it. The research paper states: "always and everywhere no matter what data file or measure is used, which country or time-period is examined, women have poorer mental health than men."
And the paradox part, is: "And yet, across a range of studies, there is also evidence that, in terms of overall life satisfaction and happiness, women score more highly than men. Hence the paradox with women appearing both more and less ‘happy’ than men, depending on the wellbeing metric used."
Most studies tracking wellbeing do not collect data across all the months in a year. This leads to error in estimating gender differences in wellbeing for three reasons. First, there are seasonal patterns in wellbeing (partic...
And as far as the new wave of depression? WOW! It's almost like maybe other things are causing people to be depressed nowadays for people (failing economy, stress from low wages, pandemic ring a bell to anyone?)
There's also studies that show interesting data such as: The healthiest and happiest population subgroup are women who never married or had children
Overall, It's such an incredibly small minded, never paid attention to a single thing in life, kinda response to not see possible why women back then weren't happy
Most grandma's didn't have a loving 50 years spent with her high school sweetie. Most were flat out stuck. No fault divorce wasnt a thing, so they couldn't get out the the marriage. Even if they did get out, there was little to no options for divorced women. They had almost no money to their name because their husbands controlled everything. And the men knew all of this. They knew they could beat the sh*t out of their wifes, shout at them if they come home to cold dinner, withhold money/the family car, make her do all the housework, r*pe her if she wasn't feeling it that night cause back than it wasn't considered illegal in a marriage, etc. So many men acted untouchable and didn't treat women like real people
Literally get your head out of whatever "I love Lucy" sitcom you think life was like back then for women, stop being a dumbas*, and go read a book about what actually happening to women back in the day, and why so many women fought for their rights in the 60s and 70s to things like divorce, child support, the police to actually have to start protecting them from domestic assault, etc
"They don't understand basic gentlemanly behavior like holding doors, taking off their hat in the presence of a woman, even good grooming and dress."
Women don't care about that kinda stuff. That's not what they mean when they say they want men to be men and step it up in relationships
Women want men that will treat them like equals, and created a shared life where both the husband and wife are benefiting.
So many men expect women to bring in half the income, yet still do all the chores, pop out babies, come home and make them a hot dinner, do their laundry, while never gaining an ounce of weight, and are okay with the fact that in order to do all this the women would never have time for her friends, hobbies, time to relax, etc. Oh, but the man better get to keep his boys nights, unwind after work with a beer, go on his 50 miles of runs a week. Meanwhile mom is stuck home constantly watching the kids, and the only time she gets to run is when she has to push a baby stroller cause her husband doesn't even know how to take care of their 8 month old for more than 15 minutes alone without calling mom for help.
We're no longer in a life where women need men to get by. Young women dating nowadays had grandmas who had to stay in abusive marriages because women couldnt have their own bank accounts, good paying jobs, or buy houses without a men approving.
And then their moms technically gained most of those rights, but with the trade off "well fine, you can work and make money, but you're still expected to do all of the household chores and childcare duties" and thus were over worked, stretched thin, etc.
Young women who are dating now saw these older women give up their lives for their men, just for those men to use them up and discard them. Most men won't even stick around if their wife is terminally ill, the stat is so high that the doctors have to be trained to warn women about this if the women is diagnosed with cancer or something (so that she knows that she needs to look for other people in her live to be her support network). Whereas most women stay and take care of their husband.
It's not that the women of today are "picky," or that dating apps ruined things, it's that women finally have the consequence-free choice of not having to settle for whatever crappy man comes their way first
Those past older women would hands down be just as "picky" as women today. I've met a lot of grannies that even tell their granddaughters never to marry cause it's a scam for women lol
Women are stuck being picky today cause a lot of men never learned how to be an equal in a relationship
I see time and time again men that won't make sacrifices for their relationship, but will expect their female partner to always be on board with changes in their life
Lol this explanation has always perplexed me. It basically says "oh us women were so oppressed, the men wouldn't let us work and we had to stay at home to do chores and take care of the kids. Now things are better and I get to do all three by myself!" It just doesn't really hold up, and the statistics on depression rates and subjective well-being measures don't really go along with this narrative. If being married in previous generations was so horrible, and women are happier single and financially independent as they are now, then we should see an improvement in measures of depression and well-being among women. Spoiler alert: we don't, we have found the opposite. This phenomenon is known as the Female Happiness Paradox. If women are really choosing independence over marriage, then it's very possible they are doing so at expense to their mental health.
How about we talk about men and mental health. From Wiki:
From 2000 to 2020, more than 800,000 people died by suicide in the United States, with males representing 78.7% of all suicides that happened between 2000 and 2020. In 2022, around 49,500 people died by suicide according to the CDC, which is the highest number ever recorded.
So how about we stop overanalyzing women's mental health, regardless of marital status, and start talking about how men, especially ones on this message board, crap on women all the time but never look within to see how they can take care of themselves better.
Lol this explanation has always perplexed me. It basically says "oh us women were so oppressed, the men wouldn't let us work and we had to stay at home to do chores and take care of the kids. Now things are better and I get to do all three by myself!" It just doesn't really hold up, and the statistics on depression rates and subjective well-being measures don't really go along with this narrative. If being married in previous generations was so horrible, and women are happier single and financially independent as they are now, then we should see an improvement in measures of depression and well-being among women. Spoiler alert: we don't, we have found the opposite. This phenomenon is known as the Female Happiness Paradox. If women are really choosing independence over marriage, then it's very possible they are doing so at expense to their mental health.
Spoiler alert, male letsrun commenter uses big word to sound cool, doesn't even know how the "Female Happiness Paradox" actually works
Time/date doesn't matter, so the argument about women married back in the day verses single now has nothing to do with it. The research paper states: "always and everywhere no matter what data file or measure is used, which country or time-period is examined, women have poorer mental health than men."
And the paradox part, is: "And yet, across a range of studies, there is also evidence that, in terms of overall life satisfaction and happiness, women score more highly than men. Hence the paradox with women appearing both more and less ‘happy’ than men, depending on the wellbeing metric used."
The research paper: .
And as far as the new wave of depression? WOW! It's almost like maybe other things are causing people to be depressed nowadays for people (failing economy, stress from low wages, pandemic ring a bell to anyone?)
There's also studies that show interesting data such as: The healthiest and happiest population subgroup are women who never married or had children
source:
Overall, It's such an incredibly small minded, never paid attention to a single thing in life, kinda response to not see possible why women back then weren't happy
Most grandma's didn't have a loving 50 years spent with her high school sweetie. Most were flat out stuck. No fault divorce wasnt a thing, so they couldn't get out the the marriage. Even if they did get out, there was little to no options for divorced women. They had almost no money to their name because their husbands controlled everything. And the men knew all of this. They knew they could beat the sh*t out of their wifes, shout at them if they come home to cold dinner, withhold money/the family car, make her do all the housework, r*pe her if she wasn't feeling it that night cause back than it wasn't considered illegal in a marriage, etc. So many men acted untouchable and didn't treat women like real people
Literally get your head out of whatever "I love Lucy" sitcom you think life was like back then for women, stop being a dumbas*, and go read a book about what actually happening to women back in the day, and why so many women fought for their rights in the 60s and 70s to things like divorce, child support, the police to actually have to start protecting them from domestic assault, etc
My grandmother was overwhelming depressed because her father denied her funds for medical school (long story) and then got stuck with 8 children she didn't want because birth control wasn't available and my grandfather forced himself on her.
No, not every man is like this, and not every woman has this story. And it's now that women now are single/childless so they are all so happy. It's about CHOICES. Choose what you want, not having a certain lifestyle forced on you.
"They don't understand basic gentlemanly behavior like holding doors, taking off their hat in the presence of a woman, even good grooming and dress."
Women don't care about that kinda stuff. That's not what they mean when they say they want men to be men and step it up in relationships
Women want men that will treat them like equals, and created a shared life where both the husband and wife are benefiting.
So many men expect women to bring in half the income, yet still do all the chores, pop out babies, come home and make them a hot dinner, do their laundry, while never gaining an ounce of weight, and are okay with the fact that in order to do all this the women would never have time for her friends, hobbies, time to relax, etc. Oh, but the man better get to keep his boys nights, unwind after work with a beer, go on his 50 miles of runs a week. Meanwhile mom is stuck home constantly watching the kids, and the only time she gets to run is when she has to push a baby stroller cause her husband doesn't even know how to take care of their 8 month old for more than 15 minutes alone without calling mom for help.
We're no longer in a life where women need men to get by. Young women dating nowadays had grandmas who had to stay in abusive marriages because women couldnt have their own bank accounts, good paying jobs, or buy houses without a men approving.
And then their moms technically gained most of those rights, but with the trade off "well fine, you can work and make money, but you're still expected to do all of the household chores and childcare duties" and thus were over worked, stretched thin, etc.
Young women who are dating now saw these older women give up their lives for their men, just for those men to use them up and discard them. Most men won't even stick around if their wife is terminally ill, the stat is so high that the doctors have to be trained to warn women about this if the women is diagnosed with cancer or something (so that she knows that she needs to look for other people in her live to be her support network). Whereas most women stay and take care of their husband.
It's not that the women of today are "picky," or that dating apps ruined things, it's that women finally have the consequence-free choice of not having to settle for whatever crappy man comes their way first
Those past older women would hands down be just as "picky" as women today. I've met a lot of grannies that even tell their granddaughters never to marry cause it's a scam for women lol
Women are stuck being picky today cause a lot of men never learned how to be an equal in a relationship
I see time and time again men that won't make sacrifices for their relationship, but will expect their female partner to always be on board with changes in their life
Lol this explanation has always perplexed me. It basically says "oh us women were so oppressed, the men wouldn't let us work and we had to stay at home to do chores and take care of the kids. Now things are better and I get to do all three by myself!" It just doesn't really hold up, and the statistics on depression rates and subjective well-being measures don't really go along with this narrative. If being married in previous generations was so horrible, and women are happier single and financially independent as they are now, then we should see an improvement in measures of depression and well-being among women. Spoiler alert: we don't, we have found the opposite. This phenomenon is known as the Female Happiness Paradox. If women are really choosing independence over marriage, then it's very possible they are doing so at expense to their mental health.
Also, your quote: "oh us women were so oppressed, the men wouldn't let us work and we had to stay at home to do chores and take care of the kids. Now things are better and I get to do all three by myself!"
The point is literally in front of you smacking you in the face and you're missing it. You said it yourself that you're assuming that women are taking on all three tasks now on their own (home/work/kids)
Why the heck isn't the husband pitching in? It's actually pretty doable if both husband and wife pitch in fairly. Women shouldn't be expected to do it all themselves, in a marriage their husband should be pulling his weight too helping with the house and the kids since both parents are working.
And yet in most marriages, even in marriages where the husband considered himself a feminist that pitches in equally, studies have found that when the husband and wife add up and report their weekly hours they spend on the kids and house that the women are working way more. And I cannot stress this enough that the study wasn't just looking at crappy men, it also looked at "great" men, and turned out these husbands weren't actually pitching in and as helpful as they thought or bragged they were
Which is a big part of the reason why the happiest subset of men is married men with kids, and the happiest subset of women is unmarried women with no kids. It's because in most marriages the husband doesn't pull his weight nearly enough compared to the wife. And so it's a dynamic that highly benefits the quality of the man's life and not the women
And so women nowadays are pickier and choosier with what men they date/marry cause women have options, and the women are finally realizing that after all these decades of men bit*ching that women trap them into marriages and are so desprate to get dates and marriage... it's actually been the other way around. These women over the decades have made is life waaaaay better, happier, and easier for the men, all while their life gets worse, and the data backs it up
And the young girls that grew up seeing this happen in real time to women in their lifes, are now young women in the dating pool. And look what gender is struggling to find love nowadays. Women aren't going on as many dates cause they choose to. Men aren't going on as many dates cause they can't get them
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
Lol this explanation has always perplexed me. It basically says "oh us women were so oppressed, the men wouldn't let us work and we had to stay at home to do chores and take care of the kids. Now things are better and I get to do all three by myself!" It just doesn't really hold up, and the statistics on depression rates and subjective well-being measures don't really go along with this narrative. If being married in previous generations was so horrible, and women are happier single and financially independent as they are now, then we should see an improvement in measures of depression and well-being among women. Spoiler alert: we don't, we have found the opposite. This phenomenon is known as the Female Happiness Paradox. If women are really choosing independence over marriage, then it's very possible they are doing so at expense to their mental health.
How about we talk about men and mental health. From Wiki:
From 2000 to 2020, more than 800,000 people died by suicide in the United States, with males representing 78.7% of all suicides that happened between 2000 and 2020. In 2022, around 49,500 people died by suicide according to the CDC, which is the highest number ever recorded.
So how about we stop overanalyzing women's mental health, regardless of marital status, and start talking about how men, especially ones on this message board, crap on women all the time but never look within to see how they can take care of themselves better.
Glad you brought that up. What you're getting at is called the Gender Paradox of Suicide. Men commit suicide at higher rates, yet women attempt it at higher rates (1.5x more) and report depression at higher rates (2x that of men). Men are more likely to use more lethal means of attempting suicide, ending in higher suicide rates. I think the depression issue has more to do with biology - differing hormones - but depression in women has risen faster than men in recent years. I can't help but think the independent/single mom lifestyle is great for mental health or something to be promoted.
To rebut runnereunner22
The idea that single women are the happiest subgroup is based on a misinterpretation by one man, Paul Dolan, of one question. Of course, he took the idea of married people being more unhappy than unmarried folks to sell his book, and of course the media ran with it because they knew many within their target audience would lap that sh!t up. The data still indicate that both men and women are still happier being married than single on average, with the caveat that single people are happier than those in unhappy marriages.
Also, I find it funny that women always lose their minds if a man makes a comment about women, yet women have no problem labeling certain aspects of male life as "toxic," or telling men how they should live their lives. The hypocrisy is not lost on me, and I am not going to feel bad for saying what I think is true even if certain folks don't like it.
In the U.S., a new high of 29.0% of adults have been diagnosed with depression in their lifetime, and 17.8% currently have or are being treated for it.
The traditional gender paradox of suicide is simple: Men die by suicide more often, but women report thoughts of suicide more than men. Learn more here
For a long time, the prevailing assumption in the social sciences has been that married people, husbands and wives alike, are happier than their unmarried peers. Nearly 25 years ago, sociologist Linda Waite made this point in...
"They don't understand basic gentlemanly behavior like holding doors, taking off their hat in the presence of a woman, even good grooming and dress."
Women don't care about that kinda stuff. That's not what they mean when they say they want men to be men and step it up in relationships
Women want men that will treat them like equals, and created a shared life where both the husband and wife are benefiting.
So many men expect women to bring in half the income, yet still do all the chores, pop out babies, come home and make them a hot dinner, do their laundry, while never gaining an ounce of weight, and are okay with the fact that in order to do all this the women would never have time for her friends, hobbies, time to relax, etc. Oh, but the man better get to keep his boys nights, unwind after work with a beer, go on his 50 miles of runs a week. Meanwhile mom is stuck home constantly watching the kids, and the only time she gets to run is when she has to push a baby stroller cause her husband doesn't even know how to take care of their 8 month old for more than 15 minutes alone without calling mom for help.
We're no longer in a life where women need men to get by. Young women dating nowadays had grandmas who had to stay in abusive marriages because women couldnt have their own bank accounts, good paying jobs, or buy houses without a men approving.
And then their moms technically gained most of those rights, but with the trade off "well fine, you can work and make money, but you're still expected to do all of the household chores and childcare duties" and thus were over worked, stretched thin, etc.
Young women who are dating now saw these older women give up their lives for their men, just for those men to use them up and discard them. Most men won't even stick around if their wife is terminally ill, the stat is so high that the doctors have to be trained to warn women about this if the women is diagnosed with cancer or something (so that she knows that she needs to look for other people in her live to be her support network). Whereas most women stay and take care of their husband.
It's not that the women of today are "picky," or that dating apps ruined things, it's that women finally have the consequence-free choice of not having to settle for whatever crappy man comes their way first
Those past older women would hands down be just as "picky" as women today. I've met a lot of grannies that even tell their granddaughters never to marry cause it's a scam for women lol
Women are stuck being picky today cause a lot of men never learned how to be an equal in a relationship
I see time and time again men that won't make sacrifices for their relationship, but will expect their female partner to always be on board with changes in their life
Lol this explanation has always perplexed me. It basically says "oh us women were so oppressed, the men wouldn't let us work and we had to stay at home to do chores and take care of the kids. Now things are better and I get to do all three by myself!" It just doesn't really hold up, and the statistics on depression rates and subjective well-being measures don't really go along with this narrative. If being married in previous generations was so horrible, and women are happier single and financially independent as they are now, then we should see an improvement in measures of depression and well-being among women. Spoiler alert: we don't, we have found the opposite. This phenomenon is known as the Female Happiness Paradox. If women are really choosing independence over marriage, then it's very possible they are doing so at expense to their mental health.
This is a bizarre take that doesn't seem to be rooted in an understanding of life for women in the US through the 1950s and 1960s. Housewives abusing barbiturates was a HUGE cultural moment at that time. Have you ever heard of "housewife syndrome" or "housewife psychosis," which was how doctors described the surge of women seeking medication to numb their depression? Have you heard of The Stepford Wives, which was based on these drugged up but seemingly perfect women? Ever heard "Mother's Little Helper" by the Rolling Stones?
Yes, women (and men, and teens of both genders) are increasingly struggling with mental health in modern times. Still, it's just not historically accurate to pretend that there wasn't a massive mental health and addiction/numbing issue among women back when they had fewer career choices, less access to birth control, fewer financial resources available, etc.
How about we talk about men and mental health. From Wiki:
From 2000 to 2020, more than 800,000 people died by suicide in the United States, with males representing 78.7% of all suicides that happened between 2000 and 2020. In 2022, around 49,500 people died by suicide according to the CDC, which is the highest number ever recorded.
So how about we stop overanalyzing women's mental health, regardless of marital status, and start talking about how men, especially ones on this message board, crap on women all the time but never look within to see how they can take care of themselves better.
Glad you brought that up. What you're getting at is called the Gender Paradox of Suicide. Men commit suicide at higher rates, yet women attempt it at higher rates (1.5x more) and report depression at higher rates (2x that of men). Men are more likely to use more lethal means of attempting suicide, ending in higher suicide rates. I think the depression issue has more to do with biology - differing hormones - but depression in women has risen faster than men in recent years. I can't help but think the independent/single mom lifestyle is great for mental health or something to be promoted.
To rebut runnereunner22
The idea that single women are the happiest subgroup is based on a misinterpretation by one man, Paul Dolan, of one question. Of course, he took the idea of married people being more unhappy than unmarried folks to sell his book, and of course the media ran with it because they knew many within their target audience would lap that sh!t up. The data still indicate that both men and women are still happier being married than single on average, with the caveat that single people are happier than those in unhappy marriages.
Also, I find it funny that women always lose their minds if a man makes a comment about women, yet women have no problem labeling certain aspects of male life as "toxic," or telling men how they should live their lives. The hypocrisy is not lost on me, and I am not going to feel bad for saying what I think is true even if certain folks don't like it.
Women aren't being a hypocrite. They're bringing the toxic issues up... well cause they're actually toxic! It's not like men are doing things that just effect them, and women are being nosy. Toxic masculinity effects both men and women negatively, and often the consequences are far worse for the women. It's like the old quote "the worst thing that can happen to a man on a date is that she's ugly, the worst thing that can happen to a women on a date is that he kills her"
In fact most of the issues men have and say that they have with women, has nothing to do with standards women set, but instead to do with toxic standards men set.
For example male suicide, we all know that men commit it more. A big reason is because men tend to feel less comfortable showing and talking about weakness and emotion and asking for the mental health help that they need, because of the notion that was passed down from men in past decades that needing help is weak, makes you a sissy, you need to pull yourself up by you're bootstraps, ect.
And yet, so many men will blame women as the problem, saying that women are unkind and mean to men who cry/show emotion. But that not the true cause, it started with stuff that the patriarchy says and upholds, they point fingers and put words into women's mouths by doing stuff like fathers telling their sons stuff like "man up, you're never gonna find a women being such a p*ssy"
Here's examples of toxic masculinity from an article, and all of these things are beliefs passed down and controlled by fellow men - not women: Homophobia. Toxic masculinity teaches men that homosexuality is a deviation from traditional masculinity and that gay men are less masculine. For example, consider the way terms like “g*y” and “fag*ot” were and still are used as insults.
Need for control. Toxic masculinity encourages men to assert their power and dominance. We see this often in domestic relationships. The 2017 report "The Man Box" found that 34% of men in the U.S. believed they should always have the final say in their relationship, and 46% believed that men deserved to know where their girlfriend or wife is at all times. Promiscuity. Toxic masculinity praises men for having multiple sexual partners while expressing disgust at women who do the same.
Refusing to help with household duties. Toxic masculinity rejects roles traditionally considered “women’s work.” Toxically masculine men often refuse to participate in these household duties. "The Man Box" found that 22% of U.S. men believed they shouldn’t have to do household chores, 44% believed they should be the sole income earners, and 28% believed that boys shouldn’t be taught things like cooking, cleaning, and child care. Risk-taking. Taking risks and suppressing fear is another feature of toxic masculinity. As a result, men are more likely to abuse drugs, drive dangerously, gamble, and engage in violence.
Sexual aggression toward women. Men who have been influenced by toxic masculinity are more likely to believe they're entitled to women’s bodies, leading to sexual comments and harassment toward women and a higher likelihood of believing rape myths.
Stoicism. A cornerstone idea of toxic masculinity is that showing emotion is weak and feminine. Men are expected to be mentally and physically tough without breaking. Statistics and studies show that men are less likely to pursue mental health services like therapy despite being 1.8 times more likely than women to commit suicide.
Violence. Toxic masculinity encourages men to use aggression and violence to assert their dominance and masculinity. "The Man Box" report found that 23% of U.S. men believed that, if needed, men should use violence to get respect.
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