Twin Cities Marathon / 10 Mile CANCELED?

Yeah, I was very surprised by the downvotes. Someone ("sprintgeezer," or something like that) criticized me for making statements about the law while acknowledging that I haven't researched Minnesota law, but that's just saying what any careful lawyer would say in a general discussion like this, and I was responding to a number of posts that were unlikely to be true in any state. Although state law generally controls the issues regarding waiver, and states have created statutes to codify much of which would have earlier been governed only by common law, I really think that this is pretty standard stuff that might be taught in the first year of law school or set forth in an introductory hornbook. I've seen slight differences in waiver law among the states, but I think that most lawyers involved in these kinds of cases, especially at the appellate level, would recognize that I've described well-established principles of waiver law.

And yes, I recognize that people might disagree about whether to cancel the race based strictly on medical rather than legal concerns. But that honestly wouldn't be my chief concern. Millions of people run long distances in hot weather and perhaps also high humidity. A tiny number of them die while doing so, including some who may be running or walking in a marathon or other road or trail race. But for the most part, they're much better off than they would be if, for example, they were playing football, ice hockey, baseball, or any of a number of other sports, or even if they were just driving on a highway at night. In fact, they're probably better off than they would be if they were just sitting in a chair every day and typing on their computers. I do recognize, however, that there have been huge changes in the population of marathon participants since the days when a four-hour marathon could well be the last-place finisher, whereas it now puts one within the top half of the field. I don't know how to regulate marathon participation by people who are in no shape to run a marathon or other long race even in quite benign weather conditions.

WRONG! The temperature at noon in Minneapolis was 83 degrees, still quite a ways from 90.

I was also wondering if people thought that my comments about overhydration resulting in dilution of electrolytes (sodium, in particular) and death were way off the mark. In fact, death from overhydration in marathons is much more common than death from dehydration, contrary to assumptions routinely made decades ago. I saw an interesting survey fairly recently in which most participating physicians correctly stated that overhydration in a marathon is a more dangerous threat than dehydration. Here's an article from The New York Times in 2005 discussing this in some detail.

https://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/20/sports/sportsspecial/marathoners-warned-about-too-much-water.html?unlocked_article_code=AZXZ4VuTAnl51MFrmuxMzxF6f3V55tuao4wg9MCIUJD44443687yXRDA8InCTMDpzzux3-4TwEjOT3inCJ7MRh1leNHGaSOa-O749WvzraCMFdAGnZ96vqaCOfGFfFdzJEdxpfiN9Kc1GOFeZq4VGjmKjSaRiL4-Y2Ub0XpkV5eB7kkz9mv73b9oEo0nl4R42F9QFWOYVFVVxrPNM6p4G__D-nY18VLGdKXpOTK-48rhRP9CbVdeCiRnX2wdLE99oAgMqxeEs64KGIOMhPhfXqzVfIYyme8NHTHz_KSFH5zMzT6oU_DVnPWxxWOmZDW0sDnqP2SizVvMsyHixSv4VC5d72Qt8FHza1vfOruCLNL10uFNL5n9aJmklc3cJg&smid=url-share

https://www.wunderground.com/history/daily/us/mn/hermantown/KDLH/date/2016-6-18

Dew point within 4 degrees in 2016.. didn't look up other years. But very similar. During race times to yesterday plus considering that people trained in hotter conditions training in summer going into fall vs training in spring going into summer

Regardless of whether the conditions in Duluth for Grandma's 2016 were similar to yesterday, commenter "medician" a few pages ago laid down what the actual reason for these cancellations often is, which is the risk of deallocating EMS to overheated hobbyjoggers instead of regular citizens experiencing other medical emergencies. Race directors don't want to have blood on their hands, so to speak. He/she also mentioned road closures which I think is a good point here. Getting around Minneapolis/St. Paul anywhere near the course is a pain in the butt since it meanders quite a bit. Grandma's is pretty much a straight shot along the lake with most of the people and hospitals situated firmly to the north of it. Way easier to get an ambulances from people to ED in Duluth during Grandma's than in South Minneapolis during TCM. So for all we know that was part of the consideration to go forward with Grandma's in 2016. Just speculating.

I'm in the Cities and have run the marathon here before. I wasn't signed up for it this year but I will say, it was pretty darn hot and humid when I was out and about all day. No idea if it needed to be cancelled but I know I would not have had a good time trying to cover 26.2 yesterday. I also acknowledge that being uncomfortable weather-wise isn't exactly life threatening necessarily, though there's a line where it can be and probably the organizers were unwilling to find out whether we'd crossed that line. Who knows, hopefully they'll offer something generous to those who planned to run.

For those in the twin cities - come to the Brain Tumor 5k next Saturday (10/7) around lake como - forecast shows perfect running conditions, and there is a happy hour afterward

Amusing that you have more downvotes than up for a totally reasonable explanation of the issues (and even admitting your biases!). Letsrun FTW.

I don’t think it should have been cancelled or modified at all but if they had to do something they they should have done this: They definitely have a timing strip at the halfway point. They should have run the ten miler and set the time limit for the marathon at 4 hours but gave everyone who didn’t finish an official half marathon time if they made it halfway. They could just remove the barricade at 13.1 so that runners could turn off. To avoid people right on the cusp of 4 hours killing themselves to finish, they’d just have to say anyone who doesn’t make it halfway in 1:45 is disqualified from the full but gets an official half time.

I actually thought that comment was right on the mark and it was the first weather concern that came to mind when I heard of cancellation. Even if the race was offering an "electrolyte" drink, rather than water, most electrolytes drinks are still too weak and pose a similar risk over time.

Joe Biden should ban treadmills in rooms above 67 degrees because they are a threat to the American people

Ran across this article when looking for something else. Not curious enough to pay for it, but interesting to note that the TCM obviously has done quite a bit of data analysis and modeling related to weather risks.

And for all the people saying, "yeah, but they're making the marathoners run in February in the heat," perhaps the ire is better directed at the February marathon rather than TCM.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Using Wet Bulb Globe Temperature and Physiological Equivalent Temperature as Predicative Models of Medical Stress in a Marathon: Analysis of 30 Years of Data From the Twin Cities Marathon - PubMed

Start WBGT was a better predictor of medical stress and ER visits than PET at the Twin Cities Marathon over a 30-year period. The start WBGT may be a better tool to predict race day environment medical safety.

Open link

This was a pretty irresponsible decision, mostly because the last-minute cancellation meant that everyone ran anyway-just without aid stations, medical support, and with the race course open to traffic since they removed the barriers.

My wife, son and I went down to spectate, not knowing the race had been cancelled, and were surprised to see hundreds of runners with bibs at Lake of the Isles (the 5k mark) at 8:10 am. Runners continued to trickle through for a good 90 minutes.

Considering weather didn't change last-minute, this was a pretty poor decision. At least let people know ahead of time.

Others have posted the peer-reviewed analyses that the TCM itself has done on mass-casualty incidents. They take this very seriously.

I understand that's what you think based on your experience in the ER. But that's simply not what the data shows. As I mentioned, mortality rates ARE higher on marathon days, even in normal weather conditions.

Lake Como, Lombardy Region, Italy

Como Lake, Saint Paul, MN, USA.

I love running around Como Lake. I did so about 12 or 13 days ago. I don't want to ruin my love for running around Como Lake by racing there.

Will TCM survive?

As many already noted, marathoners train through the heat all summer so they can run in better weather (hopefully) at their fall marathon. They taper specifically for their goal race. Most out of towners take vacation day(s) and incur considerable travel costs to participate. There are no weather guarantees, but the first weekend in October is more subject to Indian Summers than later dates. TCM would probably be better off running a week after Chicago than a week before.

Out of town runners are key to large event races like TCM. If TCM refuses to issue refunds and adopt better, clearer written weather contingencies, will out of town participation suffer?

P.S. Was this a case of "if the hobby joggers can't enjoy the whole race, then nobody can?"

The problem with these for profit races/events getting too big for their own good. They need to accommodate everyone no matter what which means the extremes get preferential treatment over the average. And being for profit they are afraid of their own shadow. So any hint of upsetting even one person because a bad experience means we better cancel or make ridiculous changes to accommodate that one Karen.

The OTQ attempt group could also reach out to see if they can get into the McKirdy Micro-Marathon in upstate New York on October 14th.