Like "lactate threshold", there is just a gradual curve in a well trained lover's libido, no threshold shift. If you fear a suddon 'drop off', maybe you aren't training right.
Bayshore Marathon Short?
LRC Community/Where to Run/Race Reviews
Race Reviews/Experiences
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jecht wrote:
AnonymousRun wrote:
Now before I ask this, I’d like to get ahead of the fact that I expect other posters here to once again harp on the fact that I appear to be questioning any possibility that the course is short, even if all I’m trying to do is ask reasonable questions because I’m genuinely interested in the answers (fwiw, I also mentioned the potential course measurement issue in the post-race feedback survey and reached out to the race organizers separately and hope they respond).
But if it’s a turnaround issue, have you noticed weird mile 13/14 splits if you’ve used manual laps on your watch instead of auto laps? I used auto laps when running the race so I can’t really say. I did see one poster earlier in this thread say that they did manual laps and didn’t notice anything off, though, which seems a little odd if the turnaround is up to 0.1 miles short of where it should be.
The RD might not be aware of LRC. We are an obscure website. So he might not get many responses about it.
There were water stops on both sides
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slightly short for me wrote:
AnonymousRun wrote:
It’s why I’m specifically curious about anyone who was doing manual laps on their watch. That would be the best determinant of whether the turnaround was off.
I wish at least they would respond to the inquiries they've gotten.
The race directors likely have little incentive to share any info about it being short - it only makes them look bad. You’d likely need another party like USATF to inquire about it for them to actually share any info
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AnonymousRun wrote:
Maybe it’s been worse than usual the last couple years but there were posters in this thread who said they got distances < 26.2 when they’ve run the course before last year as well (I think the Bohannon poster had said in both 2017 and 2019).
I got 26.3 in 2019. Running the tangents as best as I could.
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jecht wrote:
Baywatch Marathon wrote:
Did the half marathoners coming the other way have to go to the marathon side to get their water bottles? It sounds crazy that they were coming the other way and had to cross over to get water. Why not have water on both sides?
I ran the half and went to the right side of the road every time
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RyecorDone wrote:
Like "lactate threshold", there is just a gradual curve in a well trained lover's libido, no threshold shift. If you fear a suddon 'drop off', maybe you aren't training right.
Weird. This response belongs to a totally different thread. Don't know how it got here.
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Got this response today from the Executive Director of the Traverse City Track Club, which organizes the race:
“Thank you for reaching out with your question. The Bayshore Marathon has been a USATF certified course since its inception in 1983. Due to increasing erosion issues located very near the marathon course turnaround on Bluff Road, the marathon course was redesigned, measured, and received USATF certification prior to the 2022 event. The same course was utilized this year.
We have an experienced team that manages the mile marks and turnaround points for all Bayshore races. The marking this year was done on May 23, 2023. The turnaround mark for the marathon was at the correct location. Mile marker tri-fold signage and turnaround signage are also set by the same members of the marking team. This individual also marshaled the turnaround point for the 2023 marathon (as well as in 2022).Over the years, it has been observed that GPS signals are notoriously bad on the tree-lined course out on the peninsula and are not to be trusted perfectly. Please refer to this USATF article.
I hope this helps resolve your concerns. Please let me know if you have any other questions.”
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AnonymousRun wrote:
Got this response today from the Executive Director of the Traverse City Track Club, which organizes the race:
“Thank you for reaching out with your question. The Bayshore Marathon has been a USATF certified course since its inception in 1983. Due to increasing erosion issues located very near the marathon course turnaround on Bluff Road, the marathon course was redesigned, measured, and received USATF certification prior to the 2022 event. The same course was utilized this year.
We have an experienced team that manages the mile marks and turnaround points for all Bayshore races. The marking this year was done on May 23, 2023. The turnaround mark for the marathon was at the correct location. Mile marker tri-fold signage and turnaround signage are also set by the same members of the marking team. This individual also marshaled the turnaround point for the 2023 marathon (as well as in 2022).
Over the years, it has been observed that GPS signals are notoriously bad on the tree-lined course out on the peninsula and are not to be trusted perfectly. Please refer to this USATF article.
I hope this helps resolve your concerns. Please let me know if you have any other questions.”
Well, there it is, settled. Now let’s all congratulate these three runners and wish them well in Orlando!
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AnonymousRun wrote:
Got this response today from the Executive Director of the Traverse City Track Club, which organizes the race:
“Thank you for reaching out with your question. The Bayshore Marathon has been a USATF certified course since its inception in 1983. Due to increasing erosion issues located very near the marathon course turnaround on Bluff Road, the marathon course was redesigned, measured, and received USATF certification prior to the 2022 event. The same course was utilized this year.
We have an experienced team that manages the mile marks and turnaround points for all Bayshore races. The marking this year was done on May 23, 2023. The turnaround mark for the marathon was at the correct location. Mile marker tri-fold signage and turnaround signage are also set by the same members of the marking team. This individual also marshaled the turnaround point for the 2023 marathon (as well as in 2022).
Over the years, it has been observed that GPS signals are notoriously bad on the tree-lined course out on the peninsula and are not to be trusted perfectly. Please refer to this USATF article.
I hope this helps resolve your concerns. Please let me know if you have any other questions.”
You should gently suggest to him that it still might be worth a double check. :)
My GPS tracks look pretty spot on to me.
Prior to 2022 my distance measured was exactly as you'd expect GPS to measure: 26.3+ miles.
2022 and 2023: 26.1+(low) miles.
I'll try to convince myself to take his word on it.
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BOPA wrote:
AnonymousRun wrote:
Got this response today from the Executive Director of the Traverse City Track Club, which organizes the race:
“Thank you for reaching out with your question. The Bayshore Marathon has been a USATF certified course since its inception in 1983. Due to increasing erosion issues located very near the marathon course turnaround on Bluff Road, the marathon course was redesigned, measured, and received USATF certification prior to the 2022 event. The same course was utilized this year.
We have an experienced team that manages the mile marks and turnaround points for all Bayshore races. The marking this year was done on May 23, 2023. The turnaround mark for the marathon was at the correct location. Mile marker tri-fold signage and turnaround signage are also set by the same members of the marking team. This individual also marshaled the turnaround point for the 2023 marathon (as well as in 2022).
Over the years, it has been observed that GPS signals are notoriously bad on the tree-lined course out on the peninsula and are not to be trusted perfectly. Please refer to this USATF article.
I hope this helps resolve your concerns. Please let me know if you have any other questions.”
Well, there it is, settled. Now let’s all congratulate these three runners and wish them well in Orlando!
Fully agreed about the OTQ'ers! The people complaining about that on here are ass-clowns. They earned it!
My interest is 100% in whether or not I earned my PR! :/
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AnonymousRun wrote:
Got this response today from the Executive Director of the Traverse City Track Club, which organizes the race:
“Thank you for reaching out with your question. The Bayshore Marathon has been a USATF certified course since its inception in 1983. Due to increasing erosion issues located very near the marathon course turnaround on Bluff Road, the marathon course was redesigned, measured, and received USATF certification prior to the 2022 event. The same course was utilized this year.
We have an experienced team that manages the mile marks and turnaround points for all Bayshore races. The marking this year was done on May 23, 2023. The turnaround mark for the marathon was at the correct location. Mile marker tri-fold signage and turnaround signage are also set by the same members of the marking team. This individual also marshaled the turnaround point for the 2023 marathon (as well as in 2022).
Over the years, it has been observed that GPS signals are notoriously bad on the tree-lined course out on the peninsula and are not to be trusted perfectly. Please refer to this USATF article.
I hope this helps resolve your concerns. Please let me know if you have any other questions.”
This isn’t any new info - we already knew the course *as designed* is accurate since it’s USATF certified. The issue is that many people did not run it correctly since they used the left side of the road for tangents, which isn’t what you are supposed to do.
If you asked specifically about the course measurement then their response makes sense, though I’d be more interested in their thoughts about runners using the left side of the road
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In my message to them I linked this thread and specifically called out runners being able to too easily cut tangents as one of the concerns.
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AnonymousRun wrote:
In my message to them I linked this thread and specifically called out runners being able to too easily cut tangents as one of the concerns.
Was the course properly laid out and certified as such? Probably Yes.
Did the runners run the course as intended? We seem to have evidence that they did not.
My bet, as mentioned prior: They know what happened and will have clearer directions in writing, will use an abundance of cones, and will have volunteers and marshals enforcing that the course is run as designed.
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Even if there are clearer directions next year, like others have said I’d personally be surprised if veering off to one side of the road for periods of time caused anything more than a negligible difference (and certainly not a 0.1 - 0.3 mile difference), and would assume it’s more likely to be a GPS issue on a tree-covered, winding course in northern Michigan (like the race director mentioned).
I was personally more concerned about the turnaround point since it certainly looked off on Strava vs. the USATF map, but the response regarding that was pretty direct.
In any case, I don’t think many people on either side of the aisle will be changing their viewpoints at this point. In my opinion reaching out to the race organizers is more than enough due diligence on the topic, but anyone can believe what they want.
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AnonymousRun wrote:
In my message to them I linked this thread and specifically called out runners being able to too easily cut tangents as one of the concerns.
Yeah they conveniently didn’t address that point haha
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You’re more than welcome to reach out to the race organizers as well. There’s a contact form on the Bayshore Marathon website that I used.
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jphelp32 wrote:
AnonymousRun wrote:
Got this response today from the Executive Director of the Traverse City Track Club, which organizes the race:
“Thank you for reaching out with your question. The Bayshore Marathon has been a USATF certified course since its inception in 1983. Due to increasing erosion issues located very near the marathon course turnaround on Bluff Road, the marathon course was redesigned, measured, and received USATF certification prior to the 2022 event. The same course was utilized this year.
We have an experienced team that manages the mile marks and turnaround points for all Bayshore races. The marking this year was done on May 23, 2023. The turnaround mark for the marathon was at the correct location. Mile marker tri-fold signage and turnaround signage are also set by the same members of the marking team. This individual also marshaled the turnaround point for the 2023 marathon (as well as in 2022).
Over the years, it has been observed that GPS signals are notoriously bad on the tree-lined course out on the peninsula and are not to be trusted perfectly. Please refer to this USATF article.
I hope this helps resolve your concerns. Please let me know if you have any other questions.”
You should gently suggest to him that it still might be worth a double check. :)
My GPS tracks look pretty spot on to me.
Prior to 2022 my distance measured was exactly as you'd expect GPS to measure: 26.3+ miles.
2022 and 2023: 26.1+(low) miles.
I'll try to convince myself to take his word on it.
The second I hear "but my GPS..." I immediately tune it out because it's nonsense. GPS is 99% accurate even on the best devices.
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it is time wrote:
jphelp32 wrote:
You should gently suggest to him that it still might be worth a double check. :)
My GPS tracks look pretty spot on to me.
Prior to 2022 my distance measured was exactly as you'd expect GPS to measure: 26.3+ miles.
2022 and 2023: 26.1+(low) miles.
I'll try to convince myself to take his word on it.
The second I hear "but my GPS..." I immediately tune it out because it's nonsense. GPS is 99% accurate even on the best devices.
I actually think it’s really good and people just don’t run tangents well, which is why it generally measures long.
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