Rhonex Kipruto suspended

It is sad that you are saying this even though one can assume that you are joking. Do you honestly think that in the twilight of his epic career the Irish priest, Colm O'Donnell, would risk everything including his hallowed reputation to engage in cheating? That makes absolutely no sense. If Kenyan and Ethiopian teenagers are so far ahead of the competition when they're aged 14 to 16, why would things change when they become senior athletes as they already have a huge advantage with regard to basic talent, genetics, and desire? Cynics might opine that those kids are not really 14 to 16 years old. Okay, fair enough, even if their birth dates are doctored, it is still undeniable that they produce incredible athletes at a young age, no matter the actual veracity of their chronological age and birth dates.

Kipchoge's true birthdate remains a mystery for many or most. The irony is that when Kenyan kids are young they want to appear older and then when they reach a mature age they want to become younger.

Take the case of those 18 to 20 year old Kenyan kids running for Japanese corporate teams in Japan and posting times of 13:00/27:00 low, with names that all of us have never heard of previously. Running those times in Japan is really the barometer of honesty for me because there is no way that they would be able to engage in cheating in Japan. They're controlled A-Z over there.

In the context of Kipruto, this doesn't make sense. He went to the Irish priest when he was 15. Yes, 20 year olds in East Africa are both doping and winning world 'Junior' medals. Do you want me to give you a list of all the Kenyan World Junior medalists who have now been busted as seniors? It's about 1 in 4 for 2014-2018.

Yes, it's unlikely that Colm O'Donnell has started doping athletes in the twilight of his career, if he is doping them now, he was always doping them.

I don't know whether he is, and one case isn't enough to condemn him, but given all the Kenyan busts, to be confident that an Irish priest with no running experience could produce a 1:40 800m runner naturally, is in all probability, a case of the heart ruling the head.

And at this stage, it really is quite sick almost to still be talking about Kenyan superman genes. More likely they have genetics for doping than running (I do not believe this - financial incentive, upbrining in corrupt society, exploitation by Western managers and coaches explains the staggering rate of Kenyan doping).

Coevett you do not want to hear the truth but here it is:

Some Kenyans do have an unusual gift for distance running. They clearly do, and that is the reason why doping became so rampant. I know you are already upset but you see that if there was ZERO doping in the world these Kenyans would still be at or near the top of the distance running world. The very reason they dope is because they are so gifted and doping means $$$. You could dope but what would be the point? You are no less corrupt than they are but for you maybe embezzling $$$ is your version of doping. They dope because they are gifted. Please try to understand. There are so many gifted runners there that they are tempted to dope to distinguish themselves. It is easily understood.

At this stage, why are you still arguing against something no one is really arguing for.

Kenyans have two advantages sea-level athletes do not: 1) a lifetime of living at altitude, and 2) lower bodyweight than their Western competitors.

These differences are not genetic, but basic physics. It takes less energy to move less mass over a distance. Lower bodymass also permits more efficient cooling, giving another advantage over the longer distances.

Why are you arguing that doping is the best explanation for the high quantity of high quality performances, when the existence of any performance benefit for elite athletes in these distance running events has not yet been established. If doping could do what you want to believe, we should have seen a much higher quantity of much better performances world-wide back in the 1990s, or from the Russians, or from Spain/Italy/France, or from Morocco after El G, etc.

We only see these high quality performances from local regions in East Africa - not only Kenya but Ethiopia, Eritrea, Somalia, Uganda, etc., when the opportunity to compete arises, or in the shorter distance events, from a few North Africans.

Doping is world-wide. "Superman" performance is not.

Hold on. This is actually publicized: the ABP flags athletes above highly unlikely thresholds. Statistically we know that most blood doping cheats do never get flagged because those thresholds are so high.

There may be once in a while an innocent athlete who gets flagged - but that never gets published. The next step is always an expert committee which decides whether or not it's likely doping. If it is, they either ask the athletes for comments or recommend target testing.

We know it was the former in this case here. After receiving the comments from the suspected doper, the AIU then asks a second independent expert committee for a judgment. (There may be some additional back-and-forth.) Only in unanimous cases of a 3:0 vote, a provisional suspension is handed down and the case goes to the DT. That's where we are at right now. It's highly unlikely that the DT will overrule that experts' vote.

That also means that the excuses from Rhonex that we just read were unanimously discarded by the independent experts, regardless of how convincing they may sound to some of us here who have neither seen the measured values nor the actually submitted excuses.

Keep that in mind when claiming the ABP does not work.

I don't want to allow you (clearly a paid shill) and Rekruner to derail this thread on yet another scientific racism debate, but no, Kenyans do not have any genetic advantage. According to World Athletics, no Kenyan had broken sub 2:10 for the marathon before EPO, whereas half-a dozen or so Japanese had, 3 Brits, 2 or 3 Australians etc. They had several outstanding track athletes, cheifly Keino and Rono at a time when they were full-time athletes able to run into their 30's when everyone else (including the likes of Ryun, Snell, Elliott, Bannister) were part-time amateurs who had to retire by their mid-twenties in order to get a proper job.

If you funnelled virtually every young talented sporting person in the USA into distance running, if there was virtually no obesity in the USA due to lifestyle and diet, and if you allowed a rampant doping culture in American distance running, and if it was widely believed that Americans had special genes for distance running AND consequently all the best coaches in the world were in the USA to coach young American talent, you would have anywhere between 100 - 1000 Americans running sub 2 hours every year, and no genetic explanation would be needed.

Here's another one:

runningmagazine.ca

Canadian marathoner says he's not surprised by Kenyan athlete's suspension - Canadian Running Magazine

https://www.facebook.com/marley.dickinson

"When a clean athlete has to be in the same race as a dirty one, it changes everything," says Rory Linkletter

Link:runningmagazine.ca/the-scene/canadian-...

"On May 16, Kenyan distance runner Nicholas Mboroto Kosimbei, who collected wins at last year’s Cherry Blossom 10-miler and Atlanta Half Marathon, was provisionally suspended for the use of trimetazidine, a blood flow drug that helps the body metabolize fatty acids and use more oxygen."

Same old story

Well it didn't work for Kreuziger, you can look it up. The process might have been refined since but the overall process was the same, got flagged, was asked for explanations, explanations discarded by experts, suspended, took them to CAS, and...they dropped the case.

Having said that in the case of Kipruto, I keep coming back to that "fell off the wagon" excuse, because yes it rings as yet another excuse in the long line of tall tales told by dopers, Mo's doorbell, the burrito, Coleman goes shopping, the cocaine candies for Simoni's grand-mother, etc...It strikes me as odd that an uber talented and uber fit athlete would indulge and if he does what's his barrier to not take other stimualnts ? What does the "little old rotund" priest think of Kipruto falling off the wagon ?

That was UCI, not AIU. I am not familiar with the UCI procedures - are you?

Also I saw that Kreuziger won the committee's decision, and UCI wanted to appeal to CAS and then withdraw the appeal (citing new information). He claimed thyroxine not booze for his fluctuations.

Also: ""This is a victory not only for Roman Kreuziger but also for the biological passport, since it has been shown that the system is able to arrive at a just outcome," his attorney Jan Štovícek said."
Kreuziger added that the biopassport did not lose in this case. "On the contrary, it is the right tool for detecting cheaters in sport, which can help athletes and anti-doping authorities.""

And yes, I expect that people learned from that case.

Let's not forget either that he turned the sprinter Elijah Manangoi into a 1500m runner.

nation.africa

How Bro Colm inspired Manang’oi from sprinter to world’s top miler

Hayward Field was built in 1919 and Saturday night’s “Bowerman Mile” was the last race on the iconic ground.

Link:nation.africa/kenya/sports/athletics/h...

These threads about Kenyan doping are truly comical.

According to 2019 statistics compiled by the WADA, the highest number of anti-doping rule violations (ADRV) by sport were in bodybuilding, athletics (such as track and field), cycling, and weightlifting. Together, these sports comprised more than half of all ADRVs.

So running/athletics are included amongst the worst doping offenders - up there with the steroid blobs in the gym and the T de F cheats - and within that group we see that Kenyans are amongst the worst offenders.

When it is raining there is no question that it is wet. So it is with doping in running and Kenyan running in particular. The sport is a joke - it has been taken over by doping - and its leading jokesters currently are Kenyans - as we see with these threads with the Kenyan doper for the month. There really is nothing to debate.

Just going to reiterate the facts. Generic EPO during training(not in-comp)will improve an elite runner's marathon time by 5+ minutes, and be undetectable after 2-4 days. Now this is just standard EPO, not even talking about other designer drugs that enhance hematocrit&hemoglobin, masking agents, super responders, etc. Kenya didn't invent EPO, they are not the only ones with access to EPO, they are not the only ones using EPO. They have the most busts because they have the biggest talent pool full of people from humble backgrounds desperate to make it. Kenya is not winning because they are a nation of mastermind dopers compared to everyone else, just stop this nonsense. If you win you are(99%) on the juice. Denying this and calling for Kenya bans just makes you look like a naive child or delusional racist.

Take a look at soccer (football) baseball, etc. and see every group on the planet can produce a genius specimen, speed and endurance. Football does not care nor consider genetics what so ever by race group.

The fastest guy ever over 60m is Chinese, faster than Bolt, a Chinese guy had the high jump world record, close to the current world record.

The human being is the same kind of dog.

Environment and focus is the key.

With the genetic component, sure group's are blessed with more of this and more of that which is an advantage.

That's about all there is to it.

This is very funny. Did he drink heavy with the priest or was it an altar wine? Was it a part of his "simple life"? And when Kiprop attacked another guy with a gun, was it also a part of simple and holy life with an irish priest? By the way, irish priests and nuns killed thousands of children in Ireland - didn't you hear about it?

I have no doubt this guy is guilty and should be out of athletics along with all his Kenyan cheats.

Devout Catholics? Really? The Catholic Church has a few moral issues regarding what is appropriate behaviour. Probably not the best analogy.

I think this thread is getting off course with all the innuendo and unsubstantiated claims. Brother Colm O'Donnell has been coaching in Kenya for over 40 years and has he suddenly turned into a doping provider/enabler? Highly unlikely. Rhonex is a super talented runner, precocious from a young age. Did Rhonex willingly take illicit products? Possible, but highly unlikely according to the vast majority who know the baby faced, always elegantly attired, 23 year old (but looks 18) runner. Can we let the research into his case come to a valid conclusion based on all the evidence. Thank you.

Baby faced? What the hell does that have to do with whether one dopes? Dibaba was known as the baby faced destroyer. You are an odd duck.

You're correct that having a "baby face" does not preclude doping but at the same time we don't have all the elements about this kid, Rhonex Kipruto, one of the most humble champions who has ever graced St Patrick's High School Iten.

Brother Colm and Rhonex himself are proclaiming their total abhorrence of cheating, and both of these icons have the trust of 99% of the populace.

One gets the feeling that jealousy, to a certain extent, incentivizes outsiders to condemn these two champions.

Sad times.