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Man choked to death by rider on NY subway

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  • Train Rider

    Anonymous Poster

    3 years ago 05/05/2023 10:00am EDT
    re: talkktakkktaaaa

    All killing is bad. But I have a story that is somewhat relevant.

    I was in Denver last summer for work. When it was time to fly home, I walked down to the trains near the Union Station building and bought a ticket to the airport. When I got on the train, it was about half full and some crazy homeless looking guy with a machete tied to his waste also got on the train. Luckily, a cop was on the train and told him that he needed to get off the train. The homeless guy yelled, "EFF YOU" and stayed on the train. The cop replied, "John, you need to get off before I call for backup." The guy walked off the train and we left for the airport.

    I guess my point is that having a transit cop in the train who knew what and who to look out for made everything safer. Maybe people don't want this job? It seems like it is needed. Way more that 180,000 more IRS agents.

  • Yawn^49

    Anonymous Poster

    3 years ago 05/05/2023 10:05am EDT
    re: talkktakkktaaaa

    talkktakkktaaaa wrote:

    Yawn^49 wrote:

    Since none of us knew either the marine or the deceased, we can only judge based on what we know. I know that typically marines are more respectable than career criminals. Hence, I will take their word at higher face value than that of a subway criminal.

    No one is saying all marines are perfect citizens whose word is law. But relative to Jordan, I’ll take the words of Danny.

    This is stupid. Veterans commit crimes all the time.

    Just admit you'll take the word of the white guy, it's ridiculously transparent.

    You are boring. In my post I even said not all veterans are perfect. You preferred to bring race into it again when by all accounts that doesn’t appear to have been a factor.

  • Sbrbbf

    Anonymous Poster

    3 years ago 05/05/2023 10:22am EDT
    re: Yawn^49

    Yawn^49 wrote:

    talkktakkktaaaa wrote:

    This is stupid. Veterans commit crimes all the time.

    Just admit you'll take the word of the white guy, it's ridiculously transparent.

    You are boring. In my post I even said not all veterans are perfect. You preferred to bring race into it again when by all accounts that doesn’t appear to have been a factor.

    You’re a sheep who chooses to follow symbols of authority and have no sense of nuance.

  • Sbrbbf

    Anonymous Poster

    3 years ago 05/05/2023 10:23am EDT
    re: Train Rider

    Train Rider wrote:

    All killing is bad. But I have a story that is somewhat relevant.

    I was in Denver last summer for work. When it was time to fly home, I walked down to the trains near the Union Station building and bought a ticket to the airport. When I got on the train, it was about half full and some crazy homeless looking guy with a machete tied to his waste also got on the train. Luckily, a cop was on the train and told him that he needed to get off the train. The homeless guy yelled, "EFF YOU" and stayed on the train. The cop replied, "John, you need to get off before I call for backup." The guy walked off the train and we left for the airport.

    I guess my point is that having a transit cop in the train who knew what and who to look out for made everything safer. Maybe people don't want this job? It seems like it is needed. Way more that 180,000 more IRS agents.

    Glad no one was hurt but worth remebering Jordan neely wasn’t armed.

  • Yawn^49

    Anonymous Poster

    3 years ago 05/05/2023 10:32am EDT
    re: Sbrbbf

    Sbrbbf wrote:

    Yawn^49 wrote:

    You are boring. In my post I even said not all veterans are perfect. You preferred to bring race into it again when by all accounts that doesn’t appear to have been a factor.

    You’re a sheep who chooses to follow symbols of authority and have no sense of nuance.

    Lol you calling anyone a sheep is rich. Shouldn’t you be licking Al sharpton’s boots about this time?

  • Train Rider

    Anonymous Poster

    3 years ago 05/05/2023 10:37am EDT
    re: Sbrbbf

    Sbrbbf wrote:

    Train Rider wrote:

    All killing is bad. But I have a story that is somewhat relevant.

    I was in Denver last summer for work. When it was time to fly home, I walked down to the trains near the Union Station building and bought a ticket to the airport. When I got on the train, it was about half full and some crazy homeless looking guy with a machete tied to his waste also got on the train. Luckily, a cop was on the train and told him that he needed to get off the train. The homeless guy yelled, "EFF YOU" and stayed on the train. The cop replied, "John, you need to get off before I call for backup." The guy walked off the train and we left for the airport.

    I guess my point is that having a transit cop in the train who knew what and who to look out for made everything safer. Maybe people don't want this job? It seems like it is needed. Way more that 180,000 more IRS agents.

    Glad no one was hurt but worth remebering Jordan neely wasn’t armed.

    100%

    I am simply saying that having a transit cop ride the A Train (or whatever it is called) every day would result in a situation where someone with training knows who and what to look out for, so civilians don't have to handle the situation themselves. The transit cop on my Denver train knew the guy and knew exactly how to deescalate the situation and get him to leave. It was clearly something he does all the time. Might work in other cities, too.

    Seems like a much better situation for everyone involved.

  • registered

    coach

    Member since 07/01/2002.

    14,389 posts. Last post 1 year ago.
    3 years ago 05/05/2023 11:30am EDT
    re: Train Rider

    Train Rider wrote:

    Sbrbbf wrote:

    Glad no one was hurt but worth remebering Jordan neely wasn’t armed.

    100%

    I am simply saying that having a transit cop ride the A Train (or whatever it is called) every day would result in a situation where someone with training knows who and what to look out for, so civilians don't have to handle the situation themselves. The transit cop on my Denver train knew the guy and knew exactly how to deescalate the situation and get him to leave. It was clearly something he does all the time. Might work in other cities, too.

    Seems like a much better situation for everyone involved.

    NYC tried that but many politicians objected. They suggested that the cops were too confrontational and often racist and that having social workers would be a better idea.

  • talkktakkktaaaa

    Anonymous Poster

    3 years ago 05/05/2023 11:41am EDT
    re: coach

    coach wrote:

    Train Rider wrote:

    100%

    I am simply saying that having a transit cop ride the A Train (or whatever it is called) every day would result in a situation where someone with training knows who and what to look out for, so civilians don't have to handle the situation themselves. The transit cop on my Denver train knew the guy and knew exactly how to deescalate the situation and get him to leave. It was clearly something he does all the time. Might work in other cities, too.

    Seems like a much better situation for everyone involved.

    NYC tried that but many politicians objected. They suggested that the cops were too confrontational and often racist and that having social workers would be a better idea.

    NYC POURS money into the NYPD. Don't act like they've defunded anything.

    And the cops have been racist and untrustworthy in the past. The stupid stop and frisk law gave them way too much power.

    Please don't act like the right actually cares about people in need because they don't. They (clearly from this thread) just want them executed when need be.

  • Troof Hurts

    Anonymous Poster

    3 years ago 05/05/2023 11:46am EDT
    re: talkktakkktaaaa

    talkktakkktaaaa wrote:

    coach wrote:

    NYC tried that but many politicians objected. They suggested that the cops were too confrontational and often racist and that having social workers would be a better idea.

    NYC POURS money into the NYPD. Don't act like they've defunded anything.

    And the cops have been racist and untrustworthy in the past. The stupid stop and frisk law gave them way too much power.

    Please don't act like the right actually cares about people in need because they don't. They (clearly from this thread) just want them executed when need be.

    Stop and frisk worked.

    The left doesn't care about anything but power. Keeping you people poor dumb and stupid so you'll continue to vote for them is their number one priority.

  • registered

    Let it Rupp

    Member since 08/23/2016.

    4,251 posts. Last post 2 months ago.
    3 years ago 05/05/2023 12:00pm EDT
    re: talkktakkktaaaa

    talkktakkktaaaa wrote:

    coach wrote:

    NYC tried that but many politicians objected. They suggested that the cops were too confrontational and often racist and that having social workers would be a better idea.

    NYC POURS money into the NYPD. Don't act like they've defunded anything.

    And the cops have been racist and untrustworthy in the past. The stupid stop and frisk law gave them way too much power.

    Please don't act like the right actually cares about people in need because they don't. They (clearly from this thread) just want them executed when need be.

    cbcny.org
    Was the NYPD Budget Cut by $1 Billion?
    The size of the NYPD’s budget was a prominent focus of this year’s budget negotiations, with many activists and elected officials calling for a $1 billion cut.
    Open link
    .
  • registered

    coach

    Member since 07/01/2002.

    14,389 posts. Last post 1 year ago.
    3 years ago 05/05/2023 12:03pm EDT
    re: talkktakkktaaaa

    talkktakkktaaaa wrote:

    coach wrote:

    NYC tried that but many politicians objected. They suggested that the cops were too confrontational and often racist and that having social workers would be a better idea.

    NYC POURS money into the NYPD. Don't act like they've defunded anything.

    And the cops have been racist and untrustworthy in the past. The stupid stop and frisk law gave them way too much power.

    Please don't act like the right actually cares about people in need because they don't. They (clearly from this thread) just want them executed when need be.

    I said nothing about defunding the police nor did I deny that cops might have been racist or untrustworthy, nor did I turn this into right vs left. I was explaining to the Denver poster why there aren't more cops on trains.

  • JekdDj

    Anonymous Poster

    3 years ago 05/05/2023 12:48pm EDT
    re: EAOC

    EAOC wrote:

    It’s actually insane to me how much this is blowing up. I live in NYC and the local news has been wave after wave of crazy homicides all year, including a brutal execution-style shooting in a Harlem bodega just a few weeks ago over an argument about cutting the line. But not a peep about those killings from any politician.

    But now this incident - tragic, but very gray - happens and all of a sudden it’s international news? All the progressives come out of the woodwork and hundreds march on Broadway?

    It’s so transparently obvious that the progressives were just waiting for the “right type” of incident to happen so they could jump on their soapbox and rile people up into a race war. And they got it- a picture of a white dude choking a black dude. No other context needed. Now AOC shouts about lynchings and the NY Times runs 2 front page articles implying this was a racially motivated killing (even though one of the 3 dudes restraining the victim was black himself). Never mind the 125 other homicides that have hit the city this year.

    You seem smart enough to understand that it’s not that the other crimes are less important, it’s that the cops chose not to arrest the murderer in this case.

    If the marines was arrested on the spot, life would’ve moved on.

  • krispy kremlin._._._._.

    Anonymous Poster

    3 years ago 05/05/2023 1:22pm EDT
    re: JekdDj

    Why are so many homeless people and violent offenders provided the resources to remaining living in such expensive cities that are packed, shoulder-to-shoulder, with productive members of society that they can so readily harass, attack, and terrorize on a daily basis?

    Why not instead (as Trump has suggested and I've talked about for years) move all these homeless people out to a big field somewhere (not too warm, not too cold) and set up barracks for them to live in. Ship in food, water, and whatever drugs they need and just let them do their thing away from densely-packed metros?

    Let's see how "saintly" all these social workers really are when their jobs move out to, say, western West Virginia - I'm sure their "sincere selflessness" and "desire to help" will overcome their desire to not move away from the coast.

  • Doug Heffernan

    Anonymous Poster

    3 years ago 05/05/2023 2:08pm EDT
    re: Yawn^46

    Yawn^46 wrote:

    Nope. Man is a hero. Cleaning up the subway is a necessary task.

    I'll note that for when someone asks me for change or for food more than once. Maybe I'll make the unilateral decision to kill someone who bumps into me in a way I don't like. Maybe off someone for making my commute "unpleasant" for whatever I decide is unpleasant. I'll make assumptions of criminal history too in order to justify killing a person. I hope I get hailed a hero on the internet too.

  • registered

    coach

    Member since 07/01/2002.

    14,389 posts. Last post 1 year ago.
    3 years ago 05/05/2023 2:15pm EDT
    re: JekdDj

    JekdDj wrote:

    EAOC wrote:

    It’s actually insane to me how much this is blowing up. I live in NYC and the local news has been wave after wave of crazy homicides all year, including a brutal execution-style shooting in a Harlem bodega just a few weeks ago over an argument about cutting the line. But not a peep about those killings from any politician.

    But now this incident - tragic, but very gray - happens and all of a sudden it’s international news? All the progressives come out of the woodwork and hundreds march on Broadway?

    It’s so transparently obvious that the progressives were just waiting for the “right type” of incident to happen so they could jump on their soapbox and rile people up into a race war. And they got it- a picture of a white dude choking a black dude. No other context needed. Now AOC shouts about lynchings and the NY Times runs 2 front page articles implying this was a racially motivated killing (even though one of the 3 dudes restraining the victim was black himself). Never mind the 125 other homicides that have hit the city this year.

    You seem smart enough to understand that it’s not that the other crimes are less important, it’s that the cops chose not to arrest the murderer in this case.

    If the marines was arrested on the spot, life would’ve moved on.

    Local news is reporting that he's going to be brought up to the grand jury next week. It's not the same as the police arresting him but it's not as though he's off the hook.

  • 45877

    Anonymous Poster

    3 years ago 05/05/2023 2:23pm EDT
    re: Yawn^48

    Yawn^48 wrote:

    Yawn^48 wrote:

    No, you don’t have the right to be a career criminal and expect society to bend over for you time and again. Didn’t he punch an elderly woman in the face (could be wrong but I believe one article said he did). You can put lipstick on a pig, or a high school graduation gown on a thug, but at the end of the day they are both still ugly.

    I looked it up. Idiot had an active warrant. Class act. Clearly would never harm a sole

    I don't care if he slapped your momma. The punishment isn't choked to death on a train.

    You folks are a the most racist POS ever....always trying to justify and defend the unjustified and indefensible. Always wanting to be the prosecutor, judge, jury and executioner for all black people.

  • registered

    translucent

    Member since 02/25/2023.

    390 posts. Last post 1 week ago.
    3 years ago 05/05/2023 2:41pm EDT
    re: 45877

    45877 wrote:

    Yawn^48 wrote:

    I looked it up. Idiot had an active warrant. Class act. Clearly would never harm a sole

    I don't care if he slapped your momma. The punishment isn't choked to death on a train.

    You folks are a the most racist POS ever....always trying to justify and defend the unjustified and indefensible. Always wanting to be the prosecutor, judge, jury and executioner for all black people.

    Like most of us, I am not a lawyer.

    Generally in the US, there are three points that need to be satisfied for a claim of killing in self-defense to succeed: ability, opportunity, and imminent threat to cause death or severe bodily harm. Further, the defendant must not continue to use violence after the threat is no longer present, if a reasonable person in that situation would have known this. If a juror thinks these are satisfied, they should vote to acquit regardless of the cries that "he didn't deserve to die!" If a juror does not think these are satisfied, and that the charge is otherwise correct (in this case, that would probably mean manslaughter), they should vote to convict regardless of the cries that "he got what he deserved".

    I don't know what the laws in NY or NYC specifically say. They might modify this assessment. I'm guessing there's a lot about the case that I don't know and that people on this forum don't know.

  • registered

    douglas burke

    Member since 11/21/2010.

    12,979 posts. Last post 41 minutes ago.
    3 years ago 05/05/2023 3:17pm EDT
    re: translucent

    Why all the protests for career criminals?

    Where are the protests for the TOTALLY INNOCENT Children who were Murdered in this Thread?

    Almost like it is morwe about AGENDA

  • same as it ever wuz

    Anonymous Poster

    3 years ago 05/05/2023 3:23pm EDT
    re: douglas burke

    douglas burke wrote:

    Why all the protests for career criminals?

    Where are the protests for the TOTALLY INNOCENT Children who were Murdered in this Thread?

    Almost like it is morwe about AGENDA

    How many are defending the drive by murderer?

  • letsione

    Anonymous Poster

    3 years ago 05/05/2023 3:29pm EDT
    re: douglas burke

    douglas burke wrote:

    Why all the protests for career criminals?

    Where are the protests for the TOTALLY INNOCENT Children who were Murdered in this Thread?

    Almost like it is morwe about AGENDA

    why do we keep having to go over this crap? No one is defending or justifying those murders. No one is cheering them on or condemning the victims as bad people who "deserved it."

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